Ukraine Today

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Mad Vader

Duhpressed
Duke
M&BWB
"How to spot false posts from Ukraine"
https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-60654288

This is my favorite meta-subject, disinformation and fact-checking.
Also this:
tweetua.png
 

Lord Grindelvald

Sergeant at Arms
WB
What I don't see is what benefit can he gain from the war now.

Absolutely nothing. And although the war is still raging on, he has already lost. He sealed Russia's fate when he decreed the legal annexation of foreign investments. Coca-Cola factories, McDonalds food chains, BP & Shell joint ventures, everything left there, including it's trademark and copyrights are now up for bid to Russian investors. So even if Russia wins, they lose. They have been politically isolated and Big Business followed.

But the crazy thing is, and this is whats gonna really bring Russia back to 1989, even if sanctions get lifted, companies will not again invest in Russia. Not with the current leadership. Because if Russia can just take their trademarks, their factories, their products and sell them to the highest bidder, then why would they trust Putin not to do it again?

Funny thing is, even Lada which came up during the prime communist years, has halted production. Their cars are reliant on electrical components from Renault. Estimation is that Lada wont be producing cars for another year untill they've replaced those parts.

Dwarf Fortress??
Now thats a classic. But no, its from Warframe.
GranularParallelEel-size_restricted.gif
 

Ishapar

Recruit
But can't Russia just use it's own resources to make up for their loss with international businesses? Russia is the largest nation in the world, and all that land does have several resources to be taken. Russia maybe hurting with international trade/revenue, but does it matter much if you have that much land resources at your disposal?
 

Lord Grindelvald

Sergeant at Arms
WB
But can't Russia just use it's own resources to make up for their loss with international businesses? Russia is the largest nation in the world, and all that land does have several resources to be taken. Russia maybe hurting with international trade/revenue, but does it matter much if you have that much land resources at your disposal?

They have the biggest gas reserves of any nation. Everybody buys Russian gas but now that Russia is threatening to shut down gas delivery all their customers are moving away from gas and onto other resources.

So the one thing that made Russia(n oligarchs) wealthy will soon be obsolete. Russia might be the largest nation in the world but about 87% of it is barren land, uninhabitable and unfarmable. They ofcourse have other resources in their lands which we buy or need, but none are so important as their gas. And that is the one thing we are now getting rid of in an heavily accelerated timeline.

Hypothetically speaking Russia could try to use its own resources to make up the losses. They could attempt to make their own McBurger or MotherLand Rover but they will likely not succeed. There is precedent here and we do not have to look too far back into their history to know that they cant cut it on their own. The USSR was not a great place. And now that they have grown accustomed to western/capitalist luxuries it will be tough going back to the old ways.
 

Sarin

Master Knight
But can't Russia just use it's own resources to make up for their loss with international businesses? Russia is the largest nation in the world, and all that land does have several resources to be taken. Russia maybe hurting with international trade/revenue, but does it matter much if you have that much land resources at your disposal?
This is actually what will really turn Russia into China's puppet.

Russia has a lot of resources, but most of them are in remote, inhospitable areas and were not exploited for various reasons. Especially with the sanctions in place, they don't have the means to build the infrastructure necessary for extraction and processing of those resources. So, China will happily lend them a lot of money, with the caveat that they'll be used to contract Chinese companies to build and run the whole thing, with tax breaks and so on. In a few years, they'll find out that because of all that, the actual profit will barely cover the loan interest, their very land is being held as collateral for the debt and all their resources are going to China without any benefit to Russian people.
 

Ishapar

Recruit
They have the biggest gas reserves of any nation. Everybody buys Russian gas but now that Russia is threatening to shut down gas delivery all their customers are moving away from gas and onto other resources.

So the one thing that made Russia(n oligarchs) wealthy will soon be obsolete. Russia might be the largest nation in the world but about 87% of it is barren land, uninhabitable and unfarmable. They ofcourse have other resources in their lands which we buy or need, but none are so important as their gas. And that is the one thing we are now getting rid of in an heavily accelerated timeline.

Hypothetically speaking Russia could try to use its own resources to make up the losses. They could attempt to make their own McBurger or MotherLand Rover but they will likely not succeed. There is precedent here and we do not have to look too far back into their history to know that they cant cut it on their own. The USSR was not a great place. And now that they have grown accustomed to western/capitalist luxuries it will be tough going back to the old ways.
I doubt that will change Russia too much as most nations still need to rely on gas fuel for the economy. Here in America (especially in the rural regions where I live) we depend heavily on gas and diesel for transportation and economy. Thanks to what our government did, we are not "allowed" to use our own gasline and have to depend on Russia for it. There is no way that is going to encourage "renewable energy;" most types of renewable energy are not dependable nor can be generated enough for how modern culture uses it. It certainly isn't affordable for us rural Americans ( who have a lower standard of living than urban people) to use. America will stay on fossil fuels and will still get it from Russia unless our government finally snaps out of the delusion. Russia will still have a market unless the nations finally take their own stand and decide to use their own resources instead of relying so much on international trade.
This is actually what will really turn Russia into China's puppet.

Russia has a lot of resources, but most of them are in remote, inhospitable areas and were not exploited for various reasons. Especially with the sanctions in place, they don't have the means to build the infrastructure necessary for extraction and processing of those resources. So, China will happily lend them a lot of money, with the caveat that they'll be used to contract Chinese companies to build and run the whole thing, with tax breaks and so on. In a few years, they'll find out that because of all that, the actual profit will barely cover the loan interest, their very land is being held as collateral for the debt and all their resources are going to China without any benefit to Russian people.
I don't know if I could see Russia making such an agreement with China. Russia's power has always been its land; why would they give up their main power? The fact that Putin is trying to take back former Soviet countries speaks to me that Russia isn't willing to compromise any of its land to another leading world power.

I admit I haven't studied much on international trade or policies, so forgive my own ignorance. I just don't see Putin making such a bold move if he didn't consider the consequences people on this forum has mentioned. You don't stay in power of a powerful nation by being stupid. Arrogant and foolish, but complete ignorance or stupidity? No. I don't think any of us should be underestimating Putin's actions; didn't the West do that once already with Hitler?
 

Trueten

Section Moderator
WBVC
But can't Russia just use it's own resources to make up for their loss with international businesses? Russia is the largest nation in the world, and all that land does have several resources to be taken.
There's a joke:
- You know, son, our income has been cut in half
- does it mean you gonna drink less?
- no, it means we gonna eat less.

So, dont forget the corruption. Russian govt is based off corruption and dwindling money turnover does not mean corruption on the top will be cut. Any anti-corrupt organization is called 'extrimist' and shut down/banned immediately.
So if Russia was a proper adequate state, it could survive based off selling its resources.
But as a corrupt state with major wealthy steal sources going down... nah

If Russia was an adequate state it wouldnt start a war after all.
 
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Ishapar

Recruit
There's a joke:
- You know, son, our income has been cut in half
- does it mean you gonna drink less?
- no, it means we gonna eat less.

So, dont forget the corruption. Russian govt is based off corruption and dwindling money turnover does not mean corruption on the top willbe cut. Any anti-corrupt organization is called 'extrimist' and shut down/banned immediately.
So if Russia was a proper adequate state, it could survive based off selling its resources.
But as a corrupt state with major wealthy steal sources going down... nah

If Russia was an adequate state it wouldnt start a war after all.
Thanks for clearing that up.
 

Mad Vader

Duhpressed
Duke
M&BWB
I doubt that will change Russia too much as most nations still need to rely on gas fuel for the economy. Here in America (especially in the rural regions where I live) we depend heavily on gas and diesel for transportation and economy. Thanks to what our government did, we are not "allowed" to use our own gasline and have to depend on Russia for it. There is no way that is going to encourage "renewable energy;" most types of renewable energy are not dependable nor can be generated enough for how modern culture uses it. It certainly isn't affordable for us rural Americans ( who have a lower standard of living than urban people) to use. America will stay on fossil fuels and will still get it from Russia unless our government finally snaps out of the delusion. Russia will still have a market unless the nations finally take their own stand and decide to use their own resources instead of relying so much on international trade.
This sounds so much like a Republican propaganda, that I had to say something.
The US is practically self-sufficient in both natural gas and oil.
Here's where US natural gas comes from:
https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/natural-gas/imports-and-exports.php
But yeah, Putin attacks Ukraine and the energy costs go crazy -> Biden bad.
 

Ishapar

Recruit
This sounds so much like a Republican propaganda, that I had to say something.
The US is practically self-sufficient in both natural gas and oil.
Here's where US natural gas comes from:
https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/natural-gas/imports-and-exports.php
But yeah, Putin attacks Ukraine and the energy costs go crazy -> Biden bad.
I'm neither Republican or Democrat. I wasn't aware of us actually using our own gas. I've been told that the U.S. wasn't allowed to use our own gas and that we had to buy it. Since you showed me that link and after doing some more research, I admit that I was mistaken about the oil market. Thanks for clearing that up.
 

Lord Grindelvald

Sergeant at Arms
WB
'2nd strongest army in the world':
leyZV.jpg

Source

It's pathetic. Ofcourse, in this topic it has been mentioned a couple of times, they still are dangerous. But so is a toddler with a fork.

They've been hyped as this superpower for the last two decades only to get their 30 million dollar rocket systems stolen by a babushka on a tractor.

This sounds so much like a Republican propaganda, that I had to say something.
The US is practically self-sufficient in both natural gas and oil.
Here's where US natural gas comes from:
https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/natural-gas/imports-and-exports.php
But yeah, Putin attacks Ukraine and the energy costs go crazy -> Biden bad.

Yeah, I thought I remembered reading somewhere that the US of A only gets about 10% of its gas from Russia.
And doesn't the US has the biggest (stored) oil reserve? Enough to last the nation a decade once everything runs out?
Ofcourse, those are reserves and to only be used/sold once the natural reserves dry out, but still. Nothing to worry about I think.
 

eddiemccandless

Knight at Arms
WBNWVC
I'm neither Republican or Democrat. I wasn't aware of us actually using our own gas. I've been told that the U.S. wasn't allowed to use our own gas and that we had to buy it. Since you showed me that link and after doing some more research, I admit that I was mistaken about the oil market. Thanks for clearing that up.
I say this unironically, good on you for being willing to admit when you're wrong. It is not common to see people doing that nowadays.

As a side note, I would be very wary of any (dis) information source that blames complex issues on a single entity or individual. Things in life are almost always more complicated than they look on the surface, and if someone is trying to oversimplify nuanced issues to point fingers at someone (or conversely to exalt the contribution of someone), chances are, they are trying to sell you something.
 

Cyborg Eastern European

Canis Mechanicus
Archduke
But can't Russia just use it's own resources to make up for their loss with international businesses? Russia is the largest nation in the world, and all that land does have several resources to be taken. Russia maybe hurting with international trade/revenue, but does it matter much if you have that much land resources at your disposal?
I feel compelled to add: Russian economy relies heavily on technological imports. Not just the electronics in the cars that had been mentioned. Everything from machines used in production and resource exploitation, their spare parts to the control and design software, comes from countries that just told it to go sit on a ****.

? I've even seen claims their own local manufacturers got forced out or bypassed, so they don't threaten the existing power structure. ? If that's true, they can't even manufacture the **** they should have been capable of, "just because."
*And I've definitely seen claims of their import substitution schemes being either failures, scams or both, before the invasion.
Add the acute brain drain that the war and sanctions induced, and their land is utterly unexploitable without outside actors, which will do their level best to leave as little as humanly possible for the locals.
 

Adorno

Bedroom Assassin
Archduke
WBNWM&BVC
I don't know SOHR, but Ritzau also reports it.

Another 18,000 men have registered with the Syrian government’s ruling Baath party and will be screened by the Wagner Group, a Russian private military contractor with links to the Kremlin, the war monitor said.
 

Vermillion_Hawk

Butthurt Bushmaster
Grandmaster Knight
WF&SWBVC
They can barely get their own conscripts into Kyiv and they're already suffering from equipment shortages/malfunctions/general corruption, what would introducing Syrians to that mix realistically do for Putin? Again, this isn't the 18th century, nobody's going to fight a decisive engagement in the field, numbers are effectively meaningless (to a point) in this war.
 

Arvenski

Count
M&BWB
I too am wondering that. If supplies are already a problem, what good will it do to send in more men who will need to be supplied?

Also, I worry about what could happen to Ukrainian civilians living in areas the Syrian troops took control of. Maybe I'm wrong to think like this, but I guess I hope that Russians and Ukrainians are close enough geographically and culturally that should parts of Ukraine be occupied by Russian troops, they and the Ukrainian people living there could coexist with hopefully a minimum of brutality. Syrian troops, on the other hand, would have nothing in common with the Ukrainians. The Syrians have been hardened by years of war, they'd be far from home, in a country where the people don't share their religion or speak their language. What would be there to stop them from killing or raping anyone who got in their way? I feel like I've heard a few stories throughout history of mercenaries being more brutal than the people they're fighting for...
 
The Syrians have been hardened by years of war, they'd be far from home, in a country where the people don't share their religion or speak their language. What would be there to stop them from killing or raping anyone who got in their way? I feel like I've heard a few stories throughout history of mercenaries being more brutal than the people they're fighting for...
That may be part of the plan? Have Syrians 'acquire' supplies for themselves, terrorizing the people while dodging the blame for it (well, more like give own propaganda ammo of "it ain't our good boys of peacekeeping force doing it").

And months from now certain people will have a cozy line to fall back to when discussing this stuff.

"Yes, but you see, it wasn't the Wehrmacht that shot up those Polish villages wholesale..."
 

Mad Vader

Duhpressed
Duke
M&BWB
You missed the best part about that article, which was seen when browsing on the BBC mobile app


Tip #1: real photos and videos from Ukraine don't feature fat Steven Seagal.
That was the point, there was a claim with this photo that Seagal was out there liberating stuff in some unnecessarily brutal, yet obesity-friendly way. Given he's a celeb buddy of Putin, it would not seem that implausible.
 
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