Ukraine Today
- Thread starter SwadianJedi
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Italy habitually suggests and votes for the softest possible touch against Russia. Wouldn't be surprised if people like Mogherini we're straight up KGB.
Preliminary and admittedly-unverified reports seem to suggest that either the morale and quality of the invading Russian is quite low or the Ukrainian propaganda department is scoring big wins, either scenario bodes poorly for Russia's invasion which is a win for the rest of the world.
The Ukrainian propaganda is scoring big wins against us. There are so many bogus reports trying to portray the rapidly deteriorating situation in a rosy way. They will crumble in a couple of days or so.
All lies are tolerated in love and war somehow.
I feel like once Ukraine was dead-set on joining NATO and never wanting to get back together with the Russian sphere of influence, the West almost had a checkmate on Russia. It's not quite a check mate, but maybe more of a getting-windmilled-by-bobby-fischer-I-hope-this-combo-ends-soon type of check.
At the point of deciding whether to invade Ukraine, they basically had no good choices left. If they leave Ukraine alone, their sphere of influence will keep shrinking, if they want to maintain their influence in their neighborhood, they would have to sacrifice an immense amount of human, political, and financial capital to maintain it. This is not even mentioning that doing so is very risky to those in power at the top compared to leaving Ukraine alone. And it would also provide an opening for its rivals to put an even bigger squeeze on Russia hastening its shrinkage. All of the things that Russia is doing now, all these military moves on its neighbors used to be free. This is some fantastic political maneuvering against Russia if you ignore the cost in human lives.
Their concerns are not completely illegitimate. NATO isn't going to attack Russia for the foreseeable future, but NATO has bombed neighboring countries before in the interests of that country's NATO neighbors a la Libya and Yugoslavia. Military bases are still military bases and it is natural of liberal democracies to be always a bit unpredictable.
Then again Russia really did shoot itself in the foot with its actions leading up to this point. It took away the most Russian friendly regions of a country that was teetering out of its influence and looking for new partners. Leaving the country with a strong unified electorate that pushes single-mindedly to get away from it. Had it left Crimea, Donetsk, and Luhansk within Ukraine there would have been major voices calling to mediate leaving Russia with the rest of the country's more independent electorate. I guess they didn't really think Ukraine would truly become a more representative democracy, even with all the corruption, and try to rebuild themselves using non-Russian help after deposing Lukashenko.
"The bear that sees the trap can never be caught." Other times the bear sees everything and still gets stuck in the trap while triple locking itself inside.
There's a live map of reported incidents in Ukraine: https://liveuamap.com/ Not always reliable, but you get to see some stuff first hand.
It looks like Russia isn't going to get that quick of a victory, and Ukraine is still holding, it may come down to supply and logistics at this point. There's these Arma 3 streamers who know active servicemen in Ukraine and are getting sent a lot of first hand pictures and video lol. Rimmy is getting them and describing what he sees and trying to keep operational security.
Lot more countries freeing up funds now they see that Ukraine isn't going to fold like an omelette. 6.4b billion in aid to Ukraine is going to head through the US congress soon.
At the point of deciding whether to invade Ukraine, they basically had no good choices left. If they leave Ukraine alone, their sphere of influence will keep shrinking, if they want to maintain their influence in their neighborhood, they would have to sacrifice an immense amount of human, political, and financial capital to maintain it. This is not even mentioning that doing so is very risky to those in power at the top compared to leaving Ukraine alone. And it would also provide an opening for its rivals to put an even bigger squeeze on Russia hastening its shrinkage. All of the things that Russia is doing now, all these military moves on its neighbors used to be free. This is some fantastic political maneuvering against Russia if you ignore the cost in human lives.
Their concerns are not completely illegitimate. NATO isn't going to attack Russia for the foreseeable future, but NATO has bombed neighboring countries before in the interests of that country's NATO neighbors a la Libya and Yugoslavia. Military bases are still military bases and it is natural of liberal democracies to be always a bit unpredictable.
Then again Russia really did shoot itself in the foot with its actions leading up to this point. It took away the most Russian friendly regions of a country that was teetering out of its influence and looking for new partners. Leaving the country with a strong unified electorate that pushes single-mindedly to get away from it. Had it left Crimea, Donetsk, and Luhansk within Ukraine there would have been major voices calling to mediate leaving Russia with the rest of the country's more independent electorate. I guess they didn't really think Ukraine would truly become a more representative democracy, even with all the corruption, and try to rebuild themselves using non-Russian help after deposing Lukashenko.
"The bear that sees the trap can never be caught." Other times the bear sees everything and still gets stuck in the trap while triple locking itself inside.
There's a live map of reported incidents in Ukraine: https://liveuamap.com/ Not always reliable, but you get to see some stuff first hand.
It looks like Russia isn't going to get that quick of a victory, and Ukraine is still holding, it may come down to supply and logistics at this point. There's these Arma 3 streamers who know active servicemen in Ukraine and are getting sent a lot of first hand pictures and video lol. Rimmy is getting them and describing what he sees and trying to keep operational security.
Lot more countries freeing up funds now they see that Ukraine isn't going to fold like an omelette. 6.4b billion in aid to Ukraine is going to head through the US congress soon.
Yeah, I followed that too. But I also see what's going on on social media and there's pretty obvious disinfo from Ukrainian sources.
The key opening in the battle for Kiev is that the Russians have taken their military airport and can fly in all they want, while they are attacking it from three sides. That's as desperate as it gets.
All the Russian casualties so far look on the scale that are factored in any plans for an invasion and Ukrainian victories are delaying actions. But there's no cavalry coming to the rescue and you can't throw dollars at Russian soldiers. That loss of hope is what makes soldiers surrender, and once they begin surrendering it's a chain reaction.
All the heroics and resistance are fine for history books and nation-building, and the Ukrainians should give a good account of themselves until it becomes just throwing lives away and they are forced to surrender.
What is important for the EU countries now is to prepare well for Ukraine refugees (which are far more welcome than the usual kind
) and isolating Russia in every way.I'm sorry this is happening, but that's how it is. And I still don't want to bone teens.
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Please Support Ukrainian Army https://bank.gov.ua/en/news/all/nat...srahunok-dlya-zboru-koshtiv-na-potrebi-armiyi (replace with proper link), this is .gov domain, so no scam
p.s.s. I'm delete link there in discord, but if you not mind I leave it here (if TaleWorlds forum team wants to chat, in fact does this message violate forum rules, write for sure!).
p.s.s. I'm delete link there in discord, but if you not mind I leave it here (if TaleWorlds forum team wants to chat, in fact does this message violate forum rules, write for sure!).
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Yeah, we clearly love Putin so much.
/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/HMVSMH3ISVLNFOL2LKLN3ZB5E4.jpg)
Italy to support EU line on Russia sanctions, including on SWIFT -PM's office
Italy will support any European Union line on sanctions against Russia in response to Moscow's invasion of Ukraine, including measures on the SWIFT global payment system, Prime Minister Mario Draghi's office said on Saturday.
www.reuters.com
Ukraine: Russia offensive takes us back to Europe's darkest days says Draghi - TopNews - Ansa.it
Moscow should withdraw troops and resume negotiations - premier (ANSA)
www.ansa.it
Ukraine: Italians will be intransigent, determined, united-Mattarella - General News - Ansa.it
Ukraine 'tragedy' concerns us all says president (ANSA)
www.ansa.it
CoE ejects Russia - Di Maio - Politics - Ansa.it
The Council of Europe has ejected Russia after its invasion of Ukraine, duty president and Italian Foreign Minister Luigi Di Maio said Friday. (ANSA)
www.ansa.it
Ukraine: Italy may reopen coal plants says Draghi - Politics - Ansa.it
May be necessary to cover immediate energy shortfalls - premier (ANSA)
www.ansa.it
Putin won't stop with Ukraine says Di Maio - TopNews - Ansa.it
He must be halted says foreign minister (ANSA)
www.ansa.it
Mogherini is one politician, and most Italians don't even know who she is. There's a Czech organization who seems to really dislike her, which I am guessing is why you are aware of her. Anyway as someone who actually grew up in Italy I can tell you for a fact that most Italians have no love for Putin.
In all honesty you sometimes have a knack for making really strong statements, about things that you are not particularly knowledgeable about, to people who actually have first hand experience on the topic (since, you know, that's my home country and I live there until I was 32 and all that). I am usually good about not taking things personally, on this particular topic I admit that I find it extremely annoying. But whatever, you do you, more important things to worry about with everything that is going on I guess.
Best wishes from England
Scholz tweeted Germany is sending 1000 anti-tank weapons (not specified) and 500 Stinger missiles.
It's the right kind of equipment, but bothers me they took so long to bring military support.
Still, a turning point in German military policy.
(Denmark is sending a mobile hospital and about €6.7 mio. in humanitarian aid.)
Maybe if the Ukrainians can hold out long enough more countries can come togther and actively support them militarily ?
It's the right kind of equipment, but bothers me they took so long to bring military support.
Still, a turning point in German military policy.
(Denmark is sending a mobile hospital and about €6.7 mio. in humanitarian aid.)
Maybe if the Ukrainians can hold out long enough more countries can come togther and actively support them militarily ?
@Silen @eddiemccandless
I said Italy, not Italians. Italy, as a continuity of institutions, has been a major proponent of the EU's detente with Russia, to use soft and fuzzy language. A voice of reason and moderation, if you will. Yes, Italy's on board now, but once again we hear that they took the second longest convincing after....it's not even funny anymore...Germany (and maybe Cyprus).
Assessing Italy's actions doesn't require intimate familiarity with the Italian soul. Just like you don't need to be Russian to have an opinion on Russia's behavior.
I said Italy, not Italians. Italy, as a continuity of institutions, has been a major proponent of the EU's detente with Russia, to use soft and fuzzy language. A voice of reason and moderation, if you will. Yes, Italy's on board now, but once again we hear that they took the second longest convincing after....it's not even funny anymore...Germany (and maybe Cyprus).
Assessing Italy's actions doesn't require intimate familiarity with the Italian soul. Just like you don't need to be Russian to have an opinion on Russia's behavior.
That's good to hear. I don't know how long it will take to get the stuff to the front lines but boy, I hope they can hold out long enough to use it.
As I see it, Ukraine has a really non-trivial win condition. Putin seemingly believed his own propaganda (Ukrainian people being held hostage by a bunch of neonazis and drug addicts as he masterfully put it) and expected the military to surrender en masse and the Russian-speaking cities to welcome the invaders. The moron actually thinks it's some sort of ethnic thing and all local Russians are pro-Russia.
He was immediately proven wrong under Kharkiv, the city where they hardly speak any Ukrainian in their day to day lives. This puts Russian military in a rough situation. They have a superior military and will likely gradually dominate the countryside. For now they mostly avoid the big cities and just push through, with time they will likely encircle them. But cities not surrendering and actually mobilizing volunteer battalions well-armed by western allies, Russians will only have to siege. Siege hard. Which will incur massive civilian casualties. Which defeats the point of Putin's stated goals and sinks him even lower as a global politician. Will he dare to go full Grozny in 2022? Well, he might.
In either case, Ukraine will be a free country even if it suffers a temporary occupation. Ukrainians have just departed too far from authoritarian mindset in the last 30 years.
He was immediately proven wrong under Kharkiv, the city where they hardly speak any Ukrainian in their day to day lives. This puts Russian military in a rough situation. They have a superior military and will likely gradually dominate the countryside. For now they mostly avoid the big cities and just push through, with time they will likely encircle them. But cities not surrendering and actually mobilizing volunteer battalions well-armed by western allies, Russians will only have to siege. Siege hard. Which will incur massive civilian casualties. Which defeats the point of Putin's stated goals and sinks him even lower as a global politician. Will he dare to go full Grozny in 2022? Well, he might.
In either case, Ukraine will be a free country even if it suffers a temporary occupation. Ukrainians have just departed too far from authoritarian mindset in the last 30 years.
There are several European countries that had stronger pro-Russian proponents for different reasons. South Slavic countries in general are in favor of Russians due to shared pan-Slavicism and this is most extreme in Serbia due to historic reasons.
Eastern Slavic/European countries (and Finland) that are too close to Russia and have been historically fearful of Russia for good reasons are full of rabid haters with clouded judgment (). (Their US equivalents are anti-commie Cold Warriors who think Ukraine is fighting against communism. Really.)
Other European countries with strong hard left voter blocs are more pro-Russian than others, as some of their people and politicians (mistakenly) favored Russia as part of their opposition to US imperialism. Now that's about over as Russian imperialism is shown to be even worse and more brazen.
This could include countries like Greece and, to a lesser extent, Italy. This is as far as I could go into the Italian soul, before getting an overwhelming craving for pasta and Mafia games.
Obviously some countries like the UK (Tories are sponsored by oligarchs) and Germany (gas) have a huge economic stake and won't do anything rash to worsen relations with Russia, so they have to be dragged along into stronger sanctions.
There are Putin admirers everywhere and they all suck, because they favor illiberal authoritarian rule to liberal democracy. Many of them recanted now. Not Trump, he still likes his role model.
Eastern Slavic/European countries (and Finland) that are too close to Russia and have been historically fearful of Russia for good reasons are full of rabid haters with clouded judgment (
). (Their US equivalents are anti-commie Cold Warriors who think Ukraine is fighting against communism. Really.)Other European countries with strong hard left voter blocs are more pro-Russian than others, as some of their people and politicians (mistakenly) favored Russia as part of their opposition to US imperialism. Now that's about over as Russian imperialism is shown to be even worse and more brazen.
This could include countries like Greece and, to a lesser extent, Italy. This is as far as I could go into the Italian soul, before getting an overwhelming craving for pasta and Mafia games.
Obviously some countries like the UK (Tories are sponsored by oligarchs) and Germany (gas) have a huge economic stake and won't do anything rash to worsen relations with Russia, so they have to be dragged along into stronger sanctions.
There are Putin admirers everywhere and they all suck, because they favor illiberal authoritarian rule to liberal democracy. Many of them recanted now. Not Trump, he still likes his role model.
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Let's be fair to Trump. I know Trump was hated internally by many but on the global arena he was great. Unhinged and unpredictable, he matched Putin and made him play nice for a while. Biden is a senile pushover. After the disaster in Afghanistan the sharks smelled blood in the water. Ukraine, Taiwan, next we might see some action in the Central Asia/Middle East, maybe even Erdogan will make a move. Will just be a domino effect in the next months/years.
All bets are off as the West was forced to play its hand and it turned out this round it has got nothing.
All bets are off as the West was forced to play its hand and it turned out this round it has got nothing.
Trump and Putin were/are good buddies. The latter helped the first dork to get his job. Trump would not move his pinky to do a thing... No single tweet or drone intel, a gun or rocket launcher would ever get to Ukraine. Really, Biden isn't even close to a pushover you portrayed here.
