Ukraine Today

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Kobrag

Marquis
I accidentally posted this in the Pakistan thread. >.>

EU ministers have agreed to have Pro-Russian Ukrainian assets frozen and cancel visas.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26280710
 

Nord Champion

Grandmaster Knight
M&BWBWF&SNW
Vorstadtkid said:
Nord Champion said:
So its a good idea for them to be shooting at each other?
:roll: such deduction skills.

I didn't mean it like that. I was that police leaving is a good idea compared to the alternative. The protesters aren't going to destroy/do anything stupid to the whole town, or country. They're against the current government, not the country itself.

Kobrag said:
I accidentally posted this in the Pakistan thread. >.>

EU ministers have agreed to have Pro-Russian Ukrainian assets frozen and cancel visas.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26280710

That is awesome. Hopefully it'll have an impact.
 

Wellenbrecher

Trümmerfrau
Archduke
WBM&BVC
Yeah, I don't think anyone here doubts that the Maidan folks do use weapons by now or really believes that they're the pinnacle of peaceful protest.
Keep in mind though, as the videos show, the guy firing into the folks weren't regular police, in fact you mostly see regular police retreat or getting captured today.

[edit]
Also don't underestimate the effect the.. battles must have on the police standing in line. What they see on the ground and what the Maidan folks can see on the ground and what the media can see from balconies high up, are always different things. Limited perspectives and such.
This is obviously equally true for "all the police in Ukraine are murderers" people.
 

Dodes

Count
M&BWBWF&S
ColonicAcid said:
Friendly reminder that this conflict isn't black and white.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDTgsVeNSsI
By your recent comments it sounds more like you have less interest in remaining non-bias and more interest in defending the government's actions. Is that so? If so, why is the primary reason for so?

EDIT: Also, has VICE's 'Ukraine Burning' been linked here yet? A bit outdated now, but a high quality and professional report.
 

Wellenbrecher

Trümmerfrau
Archduke
WBM&BVC
It's incredibly one-sided, albeit really interesting.
For example I had always wondered the heck they got their equipment from.


When I saw the trailer I was hoping they'd give both sides a chance to speak, as they usually do.
I guess speaking with some from the right wing and one from the left was enough for them.
 
I'm not defending anyone.
I'm just saying that it's not all peaceful flowery protests anymore.
When you have such a big crowd there's always gonna be the people who take it too far and bring out guns.
 

Wellenbrecher

Trümmerfrau
Archduke
WBM&BVC
In this case, I don't think you can blame them though. And that cop was as openly biased as almost everyone else.
The two cops that died yesterday were both shot apparently. There#s also a video showing a bunch of Berkut folks in hospital with bullet wounds.
Could've linked to something about that, much more effective in getting your point across.



https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPR/status/436652554697465857/photo/1
"Security Service in Kharkiv is burning documents"
 

Trueten

Section Moderator
WBVC
ColonicAcid said:
Friendly reminder that this conflict isn't black and white.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDTgsVeNSsI
Got to admit he was reasonable at the beginning. But then he started saying "Look! There's fascism all over Europe! There's Svastika's everywhere! Nazi's, nazis!". WTF? Brainwashed fool.

Also, right now I've witnessed via live-stream on Maidan a... complicated scene. At first people put dead bodies into buses. Those buses, loaded with fallen bretheren, moves along side Maidan through a big chain of people. Some of them stand on their knees, some cry, others pray and say their own "goodbye" to them.

Several minutes later another scene is live-streamed. Those military troops, captured in the morning
were loaded in the bus and supposed to go back home. Via the same road the dead bodies were transported, via the same people watching that. We might not know whether this particular people shot at protesters, or used firearms at all. And how can we be sure, that when they get back home, will they get back to the fights? Again? So people surronded the bus and separated - some people insistead to let them go, others insisted them to remian captive saying "They've been shooting at us and we are letting them go???".

And what would you do? After all, the bus was unblocked and it moved to Crimea, where this fella's are from. That is the price for being morale.
So that's what the most injured unarmed side did with captives.

Now, take a look what the opposit - armed, protected by the 'law', armour and government, which supposed to be more disciplened and calm in any situation side does with only one captive:

Yep, very, very, very brave men. Sure. I bet if Yanukovich wins, those bastards will be granted a medal of honor (or smthng like that), they gonna be heroes, that protected Yanukovich's Villa('s), his yachts, the billions of money he and his two sons have stolen from the budget, and because of this Ukranian economy is on the edge of default.
 

Anthropoid

Sergeant Knight at Arms
Dodes said:
ColonicAcid said:
Friendly reminder that this conflict isn't black and white.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDTgsVeNSsI
By your recent comments it sounds more like you have less interest in remaining non-bias and more interest in defending the government's actions. Is that so? If so, why is the primary reason for so?

EDIT: Also, has VICE's 'Ukraine Burning' been linked here yet? A bit outdated now, but a high quality and professional report.

So there is a swirl of right-wing paramilitary in the Euromaidan cocktail.
 

Dodes

Count
M&BWBWF&S
Yes, a faction of the protesters are fascists and Neo-Nazis, which has been used to discredit the entire civil disobedience, especially by pro-national Russian press.
 
I remember seeing a shield with 14/88 written around a Celtic cross in January. "Right Sector" perhaps?

Here it is:
Htizwia.jpg

Photograph: Sergei Supinsky/AFP/Getty Images
 

Nord Champion

Grandmaster Knight
M&BWBWF&SNW
Bluehawk said:
I remember seeing a shield with 14/88 written around a Celtic cross in January. "Right Sector" perhaps?

Here it is:
Htizwia.jpg

Photograph: Sergei Supinsky/AFP/Getty Images

I had to look it up, but that is Neo-Nazi symbolism. So it could be the "Right Sector". Interesting. I wonder how many protesters represent them/support their views.
 

Dodes

Count
M&BWBWF&S
Can't find any numerical statistics about the Right Sector, but I feel confident in saying that they do not make a majority.
 

Trueten

Section Moderator
WBVC
You can see those signs on every football match. Also, 14/88 is mainly racist signs. Ukraine practically has no immigrants at all, so the guy who has this symbol doesn't even know what they mean. Another teenager.

Yes, I do sound like biased, which I am, but I'm sick with this Nazi thingie I hear here and there. Every man should know that each phenomenon has its own basis. Nazis formed as partially on hatred to jews, which Germany had, and humiliation of the loss in WWI. Ku-kluks-klan - on hatred to afro-americans, which US had and has a lot. Neo-nazis - because of the amount of immigrants. So, to form this or that movement there should be a reason, some trend or threat, or a problem that concerns a lot of people.

Talking of Nazis or Neo-Nazis in Ukraine is the same thing as to state that we have whide-spread and popular organizations that are based on hatred towards, for example, elefants. You know why we do not have such organizations? Because we do not have elefants. We do not have elefants, nor gross amount of jews, nor black people, immigrants and etc. At least non of those really threatens somehow to anyone. But what really threatens to every single one of us is corruption and criminals in the government. Do we have such movements against those factors? I think 100 protesters shot only this day, horrible conditions for developing business, economy dropping down every single day for the last 2 years and police cooperating with criminals - hired thugs, titushki - would be a full answer.
 
You need only need a handful of Jews in important positions to foster conspiracy theories. Bigotry isn't always rational. When you hear them say everyone is funded by the EU or US or are fascists etc. it's the same mentality really.

Heh, are the 14 Words even still 14 when they're translated into Ukrainian?
 

Nord Champion

Grandmaster Knight
M&BWBWF&SNW
trueten said:
You can see those signs on every football match. Also, 14/88 is mainly racist signs. Ukraine practically has no immigrants at all, so the guy who has this symbol doesn't even know what they mean. Another teenager.

Yes, I do sound like biased, which I am, but I'm sick with this Nazi thingie I hear here and there. Every man should know that each phenomenon has its own basis. Nazis formed as partially on hatred to jews, which Germany had, and humiliation of the loss in WWI. Ku-kluks-klan - on hatred to afro-americans, which US had and has a lot. Neo-nazis - because of the amount of immigrants. So, to form this or that movement there should be a reason, some trend or threat, or a problem that concerns a lot of people.

Talking of Nazis or Neo-Nazis in Ukraine is the same thing as to state that we have whide-spread and popular organizations that are based on hatred towards, for example, elefants. You know why we do not have such organizations? Because we do not have elefants. We do not have elefants, nor gross amount of jews, nor black people, immigrants and etc. At least non of those really threatens somehow to anyone. But what really threatens to every single one of us is corruption and criminals in the government. Do we have such movements against those factors? I think 100 protesters shot only this day would be a full answer.

I wasn't saying that the protesters was a part of a Fascist movement. I was just wondering how many are loyal to the ideals of the "Right Sector". I know that most protesters are doing this because of corruption in the government, its obvious. If anyone is Fascist, its the Russian government and possibly the forces (not necessarily all of the forces) fighting against the protesters.

Bluehawk said:
Heh, are the 14 Words even still 14 when they're translated into Ukrainian?

:lol:
 

Trueten

Section Moderator
WBVC
Bluehawk said:
You need only need a handful of Jews in important positions to foster conspiracy theories.
Btw, I remember when one deputy was in US one journalist asked him "Why do you still have a poster "Kill the Jews!" on Maidan?". I would really like to know where he got such info. I've heard a lot of claims that Maidan is full of anti-semitism. From russian and governmental medias of course. And I also read a lot of posts of our well-known Jews that wrote dozens of articles about why they are on Maidan, how anti-semitic claims are ridiculous and also info about jews, that served in Israeli army that are now fighting on Maidan side by side with 'neo-nazi-antisemitic-extrimists-armed with gunfire wooden sticks' that throw granades and tanks at defenseless police. There even was a moment when local Kievan sinagoge asked Maidan self-defense troops to protect it from hired thugs. Hell, even Yatsenyuk and Klitschko are half-jews.



Finally, Medieval is back:
5306a0e0670c5.jpeg
 
Bluehawk said:
Heh, are the 14 Words even still 14 when they're translated into Ukrainian?
Google Translate puts it at 10 Ukrainian words, but of course Google Translate's grammar is never perfect. Even still, I doubt that unless you phrase it in some stilted way it'd be 14. :lol:
 
trueten said:
Finally, Medieval is back:
5306a0e0670c5.jpeg
Does this picture warrant a joke?
Please I've been meaning to say this for a long time...
It's not fair that Ukraine is getting early training for the battle of the nations.
 
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