Twohanders overpowered?

Users who are viewing this thread

socks

Master Knight
WB
I searched and, much to my surprise, I didn't find a topic about this. If there is one, please link it and ignore this thread.

Otherwise;

2hs
  • can kill horses with a single blow
  • can kill people with a single blow
  • can break shields with a single blow
  • are very fast
  • are extremely easy to use [i.e., noob friendly; me, a week-old noob who plays about an hour a day, got five kills in 2-3 minutes with a two hand just an hour or two ago, having used 2hs very little previously]
  • are more effective against cavalry than spears are
  • when used in conjunction with a shield can be used very effectively against archers; by holding the shield out until in range of the 2h, and then switching to the 2h, they can be very hard to hit with arrows.

Thoughts?
 

Orion

Still Not Worthy
Global Moderator
M&BWBWF&SNW
They should be powerful, they should be fast, but they shouldn't be spammable.

The problem is you can attack again before your opponent has fully recovered from the last attack, and with a long, powerful, fast weapon that means you'll win. Spammers can be beaten one on one, but honestly how often are you fighting one on one? My fights usually go into 2 vs 3, 1 vs 2, or even more stacked.

More than one spammer means you're dead.
 

Ellendar

Regular
socks said:
I searched and, much to my surprise, I didn't find a topic about this. If there is one, please link it and ignore this thread.

Otherwise;

2hs
  • can kill horses with a single blow
  • can kill people with a single blow
  • can break shields with a single blow
  • are very fast
  • are extremely easy to use [i.e., noob friendly; me, a week-old noob who plays about an hour a day, got five kills in 2-3 minutes with a two hand just an hour or two ago, having used 2hs very little previously]
  • are more effective against cavalry than spears are
  • when used in conjunction with a shield can be used very effectively against archers; by holding the shield out until in range of the 2h, and then switching to the 2h, they can be very hard to hit with arrows.

Thoughts?

The way I've always wanted it designed (though I doubt this will happen) is for each person to have a stamina bar that fills a bit more with each swing of a weapon or block of a shield.  The heavier the weapon the more stamina it uses.  As time goes by without attacking the stamina bar would go back down (fairly quickly at that).

The more full the stamina bar gets the more time it takes to ready  your next swing.

(--                              )  normal attack speed
(----------                    ) .25 second increase between swings
(---------------------------) .75 increase between swings

Or something like that, then again this is a lot more work for the programmers, and the spammers will hate it.  On the other hand it would increase intelligent playing, be more realistic, and finally get rid of one of my pet peeves (the people who begins swinging their weapon at spawn and keep swinging it all the way to the actual fighting.
 

olo

Sergeant
WB
heres the dealio, olo does not think they are overpowered, BUT (and this is important) they are too fast, olo agrees with that.

2handers should all be between 85-91 speed.

the glaive should be slower still at like 82.
 

Ellendar

Regular
olo said:
heres the dealio, olo does not think they are overpowered, BUT (and this is important) they are too fast, olo agrees with that.

2handers should all be between 85-91 speed.

the glaive should be slower still at like 82.

Also the glaive reach needs to match the weapon mesh...
 

HTAPAWASO

Master Knight
M&BWB
Ellendar said:
socks said:
I searched and, much to my surprise, I didn't find a topic about this. If there is one, please link it and ignore this thread.

Otherwise;

2hs
  • can kill horses with a single blow
  • can kill people with a single blow
  • can break shields with a single blow
  • are very fast
  • are extremely easy to use [i.e., noob friendly; me, a week-old noob who plays about an hour a day, got five kills in 2-3 minutes with a two hand just an hour or two ago, having used 2hs very little previously]
  • are more effective against cavalry than spears are
  • when used in conjunction with a shield can be used very effectively against archers; by holding the shield out until in range of the 2h, and then switching to the 2h, they can be very hard to hit with arrows.

Thoughts?

The way I've always wanted it designed (though I doubt this will happen) is for each person to have a stamina bar that fills a bit more with each swing of a weapon or block of a shield.  The heavier the weapon the more stamina it uses.  As time goes by without attacking the stamina bar would go back down (fairly quickly at that).

The more full the stamina bar gets the more time it takes to ready  your next swing.

(--                              )  normal attack speed
(----------                    ) .25 second increase between swings
(---------------------------) .75 increase between swings

Or something like that, then again this is a lot more work for the programmers, and the spammers will hate it.  On the other hand it would increase intelligent playing, be more realistic, and finally get rid of one of my pet peeves (the people who begins swinging their weapon at spawn and keep swinging it all the way to the actual fighting.

I quite like that, so long as it does go down very quickly so as not to break combat, but not so quickly that you can just SPAM SPAM SPAM with a big axe.
 

Turanien

I agree with Olo.

Whilst I am fine with the damage they deal (it is afterall a massive-****ing sword), they swing far too fast in comparison to other weapons in game.
 

Úlfheðinn

Section Moderator
WB
I agree with Turanien agreeing with Olo.



That being said I spent most of last patch and some of this running around with only a 1 handed sword(no shield) vs. the two handed weapons. Whilst, not easy, it is entirely possible to destroy them if you use correct tactics.

Generally, I find skills still is the deciding factor, if you run into a better player you will most likely lose regardless of weapon. In the same vein of thought there is a massive difference between someone who uses a two hander well and a "noob" who spams it, the latter should present little trouble(being more of an annoyance).


Disadvantages:
*Vunerabe to ranged weapons of all sorts(throwing, arrows, bolts)
*Requires at least some skills in manual block against a decent opponenet(though the slower speed has made this easier)
 

HTAPAWASO

Master Knight
M&BWB
The problem with making the swings slower is that 2hs are already so trivially easy to manual block.

If combat was made faster again (I know there is an admin option for it, but on the Oceanic servers at least nothing has changed) this would be good, but as it is I'd prefer a method which kept a fast swing speed but prevented spamming, like the one posted above.
 

Ellendar

Regular
HTAPAWASO said:
Ellendar said:
socks said:
I searched and, much to my surprise, I didn't find a topic about this. If there is one, please link it and ignore this thread.

Otherwise;

2hs
  • can kill horses with a single blow
  • can kill people with a single blow
  • can break shields with a single blow
  • are very fast
  • are extremely easy to use [i.e., noob friendly; me, a week-old noob who plays about an hour a day, got five kills in 2-3 minutes with a two hand just an hour or two ago, having used 2hs very little previously]
  • are more effective against cavalry than spears are
  • when used in conjunction with a shield can be used very effectively against archers; by holding the shield out until in range of the 2h, and then switching to the 2h, they can be very hard to hit with arrows.

Thoughts?

The way I've always wanted it designed (though I doubt this will happen) is for each person to have a stamina bar that fills a bit more with each swing of a weapon or block of a shield.  The heavier the weapon the more stamina it uses.  As time goes by without attacking the stamina bar would go back down (fairly quickly at that).

The more full the stamina bar gets the more time it takes to ready  your next swing.

(--                              )  normal attack speed
(----------                    ) .25 second increase between swings
(---------------------------) .75 increase between swings

Or something like that, then again this is a lot more work for the programmers, and the spammers will hate it.  On the other hand it would increase intelligent playing, be more realistic, and finally get rid of one of my pet peeves (the people who begins swinging their weapon at spawn and keep swinging it all the way to the actual fighting.

I quite like that, so long as it does go down very quickly so as not to break combat, but not so quickly that you can just SPAM SPAM SPAM with a big axe.

Personally I envision a system like this that includes a "sprint" option that quickly drains the stamina bar as well.  Pretty much any dynamic action taken would drain the stamina bar to varying degrees.  Jumping would be included in this big time to prevent annoying bunny-hopping.  Also it would make it a bit more realistic in the fact that fighting with a light one handed weapon will tire a person out slower than using a huge weapon, but the huge weapon will get the job done a lot faster if it lands. 

Then again this feels more like designing a new game more than changing mount and blade.
 

Yoshi Murasaki

Knight at Arms
olo said:
heres the dealio, olo does not think they are overpowered, BUT (and this is important) they are too fast, olo agrees with that.

2handers should all be between 85-91 speed.

the glaive should be slower still at like 82.

No. You can swing glaive faster than you could swing a bardiche or that heavy axe for instance. Just because a weapon is longer doesn't mean it's swinging slower. Otherwise you could swing knife 5 times while swinging once with a sword.
 

scythe111

Sergeant at Arms
Yoshi Murasaki said:
olo said:
heres the dealio, olo does not think they are overpowered, BUT (and this is important) they are too fast, olo agrees with that.

2handers should all be between 85-91 speed.

the glaive should be slower still at like 82.

No. You can swing glaive faster than you could swing a bardiche or that heavy axe for instance. Just because a weapon is longer doesn't mean it's swinging slower. Otherwise you could swing knife 5 times while swinging once with a sword.

On the subject of knives, I think they need to be implemented as an axillary 5th weapon slot for transportation.
 

Ellendar

Regular
Yoshi Murasaki said:
olo said:
heres the dealio, olo does not think they are overpowered, BUT (and this is important) they are too fast, olo agrees with that.

2handers should all be between 85-91 speed.

the glaive should be slower still at like 82.

No. You can swing glaive faster than you could swing a bardiche or that heavy axe for instance. Just because a weapon is longer doesn't mean it's swinging slower. Otherwise you could swing knife 5 times while swinging once with a sword.

While I do agree that you can swing a glaive faster than an axe, however the damage between the two would also be different.  The glaive has an entirely different leverage system.  More importantly I do wonder how the hit detection works in warband (regarding what part of the weapon hits the opponent).  Hitting someone with the base of the wooden pole isn't going to do much damage in comparison to the blade.  My real complaint of the glaive is the mesh not matching. 
 

CryptoCactus

Sergeant Knight
M&BWB
Spammers aren't too tough to beat 1v1 [my personal favorite method: 1)retreat, oh noes! 2) STAB THEM IN THE FACE]. But I do agree that most 2H weapons need to be slowed down. But NOT their swing speed (which is fine) or their "ready" time (no inexplicable pauses between pulling back and swinging, please), just their recovery time. Just a few tenths of a second more should do.
 

Hethwill

Master Knight
WBNW
The range and damage is OK IMO.

The fast is only fast because of the swing-turn-trick. As you turn the strike locks more fast. It's the same with 1H, but being long reach 2H win a duel like this.

As i see it they must differentiate from the 1H in the "attack cancel" option.

2H must have an increased delay when strike is canceled. 1H must feint fast as it's custom with light weapons.
2H swings must lock player facing when striking ( 90º angle, 45º each side ) and still not hinder any directional movement.
1H use with shield has to be updated, for the return to shield block is too slow when canceling an attack.

 

HTAPAWASO

Master Knight
M&BWB
CryptoCactus said:
Spammers aren't too tough to beat 1v1 [my personal favorite method: 1)retreat, oh noes! 2) STAB THEM IN THE FACE]. But I do agree that most 2H weapons need to be slowed down. But NOT their swing speed (which is fine) or their "ready" time (no inexplicable pauses between pulling back and swinging, please), just their recovery time. Just a few tenths of a second more should do.

Yeah that would do nicely.



I also agree that spinning to decrease swing time is silly as it is.
I'm not against spinning, but it shouldn't do the same damage as a "proper" swing which is allowed to gain momentum.
 

Kazzan

Count
M&BWBNW
I use 2handers, im fairly good with them, not you're avrage spammer mind you. I was taught by Conan the barbarian, he taught me how to properly use the axe.
 

PsykoOps

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&S
Is the weapon speed measured at the tip or at the hands of the character? Long weapons of course are fast at the tip.
 
Top Bottom