Two weapon fightin? (dual wielding)

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Blackthorn

Squire
Anyway- on the whole subject of chivalry- people are obsessed with thinking of the past as a different world, or the people who inhabited it a different species. Simply put, people are people. Always have been, always will be. Some held the codes of chivalry close to their heart, acting on them and trying to exemplify them. To others it was a ridiculous notion created for poets.
Both Saladin and Richard regarded each other by period standards as honourable men due to their little acts of friendship and cross-boundary chivalry, but both also comitted acts the other viewed as an atrocity (the slaughter at Jaffa and the ransom of all the citizens of Jerusalem for Saladin, the execution of 2000 prisoners for Richard). It all comes down to having the balance the idealised position of being a 'knight' with the practicalities of living in the real world. In no period have men acted through noble intention alone. In no period have they been universally morally deformed. People are people. The toys change, the world turns and the grammar changes, but people remain the same. Once you understand the contextual world and its values, we're pretty damn predictable.
 

John_tgh

Recruit
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BWAHAHAHAHAHA! Are you kidding me? nearly 400 pages... I sense trolling in this area...

I'm approx 1.85m tall, that is regarded as short in my house, still I train to wield a two-handed sword with one arm. Impossible? Not at all, only very tiring, but then again I'm currently trying out the old cold steel technique of smithing...
 

Úlfheðinn

Section Moderator
WB
John_tgh said:
Impossible? Not at all, only very tiring, but then again I'm currently trying out the old cold steel technique of smithing...

Impossible is Nothing.
vaynersit_215x215.jpg
 

Amman d Stazia

Master Knight
Ulf makes a true statement.

Impossible is nothing.  If it is not possible, it does not happen, nor does it exist.  Therfore, it is nothing.
Is nothing impossible?  Well...  If nothing has any existence, anywhere, then nothing is clearly possible...
 

Swadius 2.0

Grandmaster Knight
John_tgh said:
BWAHAHAHAHAHA! Are you kidding me? nearly 400 pages... I sense trolling in this area...

I'm approx 1.85m tall, that is regarded as short in my house, still I train to wield a two-handed sword with one arm. Impossible? Not at all, only very tiring, but then again I'm currently trying out the old cold steel technique of smithing...

So against someone wearing some armor using a two handed weapon with two hands and you using two handed weapons with one hand only, you're going to say that you're going to swing or parry faster than him and hit him harder with each hit?
 

Blackthorn

Squire
I love how he says ''SERIOUSLY, 400 PAGES, I SUSPECT TROLLING" and then gives every indication that he's not read any of it.
It's like someone walking into a pub with a firebomb in one hand, and a petrol can in the other, narrowing his eyes at the patrons and screaming, "You're all arsonists!".

But then he can use a two-handed sword in one hand. >phear<

Plus- on a FAR more relevant note- is Coy's Av actually Coy? If so- what the hell is an attractive girl doing feeding the trolls and humouring our delusions of grandeur?!
 
I believe that is Coy herself, yes, but I imagine the reason why such an attractive girl is, as you put it, feeding the trolls & humouring our delusions of grandeur is that she might perhaps get a kick out of it? The internet is a strange place, my friend, a very strange place, filled with all sorts.
 

Coy

Knight
rapier17 said:
I believe that is Coy herself, yes, but I imagine the reason why such an attractive girl is, as you put it, feeding the trolls & humouring our delusions of grandeur is that she might perhaps get a kick out of it? The internet is a strange place, my friend, a very strange place, filled with all sorts.

This. I like feeding trolls and such. I find it entertaining.
 

Caendur

Recruit
Hi, ev'rybody!

Yeah, it's my first post on the forum, so... Please don't read too much into my choice of thread, m'kaaay? :wink: (also, please don't kill me for making an off-topic post in a thread that's actually been quiet for 26-ish hours (if I'm reading the forum timestamps right). I normally try to stay at least 50% on-topic when posting, even though I tend to go off on tangents a lot :oops:)

I felt that I had to say that I really like this thread (or at least the end of it). Fascinating read. Well... the 15 pages I've actually read. Can't vouch for the first 370 :razz:

The discussions* were really interesting. I've always had an interest in medieval-esque stuff, but even so I learned plenty. So, y'know, thanks for ending my read with something good :smile:

(Actually... Anyone know of a good way to get in touch with a group involved in that sort of thing (studying historical techniques, re-enactments, and what have you) in Stockholm, Sweden?)

*I'm referring primarily to the ones after the metallurgy discussion. (although that one was interesting, in its own way. If a bit too... involved)

Humbly,
Caendur

(P.S. Coy: love your style)
 
Ah welcome to the thread Caendur! I think this massive thread has perhaps the largest pooling of Western Martial Art minded people on the forum. When you have time, do read back through past replies as there is a massive wealth of information available from a whole massive chunk of history...and a lot of silliness*.

And yes, we all love Coy's style.

*Round-house kicking dogs anyone?
 

Caendur

Recruit
Thank you :smile:

I fully intend to, actually. Not only out of personal interest, but I suspect I can learn plenty of useful things for my work as a fantasy author (I really suck at writing combat scenes). But right now it's 3:20AM, so... Doesn't really feel like the most opportune moment :razz:

Well, good night and looking forward to future interaction!

Humbly,
C
 
Hey, at least you recognize that. That's the first step on the road to improvement.

Many fantasy authors (especially those abominable fanfiction %*$&s) never realise that they're utterly effing terrible at writing combat scenes. It either feels like a bored teacher lecturing a completely uninterested class or a wankfest over how awesome the character is.

In my experience, Matthew Woodring Stover writes some of the best combat scenes. Jim Butcher's pretty decent at that stuff, but he tends to go for a broader strokes approach. The Mongoliad is also excellent, mainly because it has a council of HEMA nerds advising the authors. :razz:
 

Blackthorn

Squire
RE: Bad combat in books... YES.
OH GOD YES.
I'm sorry- physics contingencies? The distance between the two fighters closes and opens at random (Bernard Cornwell, whilst a favourite author, is guilty of this. Spear-reach and sword-reach changing at random, then knife-reach... etc. etc.) Also- people don't realise that fights take SPACE- and that people move fluidly in a back-and-forth style... not ''to me, to you'' as a lot of authors break it down. I'd argue Cornwell does some of the best work in expressing deflecting weapons away with a shield and skewering them simultaenously, but still... I just flinch from time to time. He's also too preoccupied with 'clever' fights- throwing the shield and so forth. In my experience that gets you killed by a veteran who's been there, done that, seen all the silly tricks under the sun and just RAISES HIS SHIELD and kills you.
Ah well.
But yes- welcome to the proverbial dark corner of the forum where veterans gather together and mutter and giggle at the idiots.

On a related note- maybe I should haunt more than three threads?
 

tostig

Sergeant Knight at Arms
M&B
Erm, in terms of Svedish HEMA groups, your best bet might be the HEMA Alliance group finder for the vikinglands, at http://www.communitywalk.com/map/index/964605 and also the shfs at http://www.shfs.se/. I know that the Gothenburg HFS are the real ****ing deal, and the website for the Enhörna group looks promising. Their facebook says that:
We are active in the parish of Enhörna, a peninsula at lake Mälaren, some 45 minutes South of Stockholm, Sweden. We also have training sessions at Södertörn University, in Flemingsberg, 15 minutes south of Stockholm.

Otherwise, I have no idea. Go ask someone the other side of the North Sea :razz:

As for written action scenes - I don't know. I'm not all that into straight up fantasy, and Cornwell always seems to just write Sharpe over and over again. Except now with longbows. One thing that I think is important to violence as part of a narrative, which often gets overlooked, is the mental state of the people involved. Are they aware of what they're doing? And they consciously considering their opponent and the available actions? Or are they in lizard-brain-mode, and working on a simple stimuli -> learnt response framework. How comfortable are they risking life and limb, and how comfortable are they with committing violence?

Yeah sure, lots of writers probably have very a-historical or whiffy combat in their books. But on the other hand, lots of authors have combat which, well, doesn't really do anything for the story or character development.
 

Caendur

Recruit
Night Ninja said:
In my experience, Matthew Woodring Stover writes some of the best combat scenes. Jim Butcher's pretty decent at that stuff, but he tends to go for a broader strokes approach. The Mongoliad is also excellent, mainly because it has a council of HEMA nerds advising the authors. :razz:

I'll have to give them a look, then. Thanks for the tips!

Tostig said:
Erm, in terms of Svedish HEMA groups, your best bet might be the HEMA Alliance group finder for the vikinglands, at http://www.communitywalk.com/map/index/964605 and also the shfs at http://www.shfs.se/. I know that the Gothenburg HFS are the real ******** deal, and the website for the Enhörna group looks promising.

Otherwise, I have no idea. Go ask someone the other side of the North Sea :razz:

Alright, seems promising. Enhörna seems promising, and then I found another a bit more centrally located. So thank you!

Tostig said:
As for written action scenes - I don't know. I'm not all that into straight up fantasy, and Cornwell always seems to just write Sharpe over and over again. Except now with longbows. One thing that I think is important to violence as part of a narrative, which often gets overlooked, is the mental state of the people involved. Are they aware of what they're doing? And they consciously considering their opponent and the available actions? Or are they in lizard-brain-mode, and working on a simple stimuli -> learnt response framework. How comfortable are they risking life and limb, and how comfortable are they with committing violence?

Yeah sure, lots of writers probably have very a-historical or whiffy combat in their books. But on the other hand, lots of authors have combat which, well, doesn't really do anything for the story or character development.

Aye, that's true... Too many overlook important aspects of a story seemingly without giving them any thought.

Blackthorn said:
But yes- welcome to the proverbial dark corner of the forum where veterans gather together and mutter and giggle at the idiots.

Thank you :smile:

Humbly,
Caendur
 
Just a note on Cornwell, the 4 books that constitute the Starbuck Chronicles are quite a different kettle of fish & 'The Fort' was rather a good read. But otherwise yes, his books follow the same formula each time but thats because it works. Now I'm older (and some might say wiser!) I do find the Sharpe books to be a bit 'simplistic' and I doubt I'll pick up & reread his 'Viking' books again. Still there's worse (Tim Severin I am looking at you!) out there.

As a chap who jots a few lines here & there I can sympathise with authors - it can be tricky to maintain the flow of the story & the action if you start to describe a -leeettle- too much. I'm afraid one of the things I was taught is that the flow of the story is the most important aspect and many authors do sacrifice what could be considered essential parts of the story for the sake of how the tale flows.
 
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