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Two-Handed Speed Nerf When?

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I'm ok with how fast 2h weapons can be. I'm not okay with how large the difference of speed is between a poorly-used 2h and a well-used 2h.

Of course skill should be rewarded but not with a deceptive difference of how fast a large weapon can be swung.
 
The problem is not the 2h weapon being fast,it's the one handed weapons underperforming, they are slow and do low damage, I actually enjoy the 2h on this game they feel right , some one handed on the other hand...
Tbf I'd rather 2h speed gets nerfed, instead of 1h speed being increased... Cuz in my opinion 1h is actually decent. If 1h's were even faster than some 2h's now, everyone would just hilt spam their lives away.
 

ParzivaI

Veteran
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Tbf I'd rather 2h speed gets nerfed, instead of 1h speed being increased... Cuz in my opinion 1h is actually decent. If 1h's were even faster than some 2h's now, everyone would just hilt spam their lives away.
Yeah I think some 1h weapons right now hit just the spot between speed and damage but others are just way to weak, I can't name any weapon right now but from the top of my mind, the default 1h wepons for the ranger classes for (khuzait/aserai/empire) feel very slow and bad.
 

Orion

Still Not Worthy
Global Moderator
M&BWBWF&SNW
You can't honestly deny that the game came out prematurely.
I never did, and have been vocal in my criticism of TW continuously since before EA.

My point is that you shouldn't spread your balance argument from concrete comparisons of items in the game to conjecture about the new player experience. It needlessly dilutes your argument (which I pretty much agree with otherwise), and the new player experience in a game as atypical as M&B will inevitably be difficult. The best that can be done is improve the learning experience so new players can better understand their mistakes, which in turn gives them clear direction on how to improve. Straying from this gets us into short-sighted decision-making.

I encourage you to join a TDM server in BL and see whether blocking is what the gameplay encourages, or whether it's spamming 2handers (I am probably leading you to the correct answer!)
I don't doubt it in the least, but mainly because this was also true for TDM servers in Warband. Spam has always overperformed against casual players, and while it would be nice for a game to be well-balanced at all tiers of play that is practically impossible. It's probably the case that BL two-handers overperform to a much greater degree than Warband's, though, so some tweaking is certainly in order. A bit faster on the 1H side, bit slower on the 2H, and reintroduction of the turn rate cap. I'd personally prefer getting rid of the collision-based blocking for melee vs shield as well, to avoid instances of correct blocks being bypassed because of slight elevation differences or minor oversteer/understeer angling errors.
 

IronLion

Recruit
This is true but there are ways to encourage learning and ways to encourage other forms of playing; I encourage you to join a TDM server in BL and see whether blocking is what the gameplay encourages, or whether it's spamming 2handers (I am probably leading you to the correct answer!)

Ofc that doesn't mean 2h are inherently OP, but there are many gameplay decisions I disagree with that encourage it e.g. lack of team damage, stunning blocks with quick attacks, active block, movement speed disparity between the 2h classes and everyone else, 1h dmg vs 2h dmg, etc.
The movement speed is a real killer - some of the 2handed classes move so fast it's comical but once they get into melee with you it's kinda impossible if they know what they are doing. They can move in and out of range faster than any other class, they will have a reach advantage from using a 2handers, they have a speed advantage from using a 2hander and they will have a damage advantage from using a 2handers. If you're a Warband boomer like myself and enjoy using 1 handers still you're at such a colossal disadvantage and you can't even retreat as they will run you down like the bad guy from Terminator 2.

That said we all know the real problem is cav being so insanely over powered that every decision every player has to make online has to be based 100% around cavalry
 
The movement speed is a real killer - some of the 2handed classes move so fast it's comical but once they get into melee with you it's kinda impossible if they know what they are doing. They can move in and out of range faster than any other class, they will have a reach advantage from using a 2handers, they have a speed advantage from using a 2hander and they will have a damage advantage from using a 2handers. If you're a Warband boomer like myself and enjoy using 1 handers still you're at such a colossal disadvantage and you can't even retreat as they will run you down like the bad guy from Terminator 2.

That said we all know the real problem is cav being so insanely over powered that every decision every player has to make online has to be based 100% around cavalry
That's the thing tho... The Sergeant isn't really a 2h class AND has really heavy armor, and can still outspam you. So even classes that aren't designated as "Two-Handed" can outspeed you with certain 2h weapons.
 

Zarthas

Knight
This is true but there are ways to encourage learning and ways to encourage other forms of playing; I encourage you to join a TDM server in BL and see whether blocking is what the gameplay encourages, or whether it's spamming 2handers (I am probably leading you to the correct answer!)

Ofc that doesn't mean 2h are inherently OP, but there are many gameplay decisions I disagree with that encourage it e.g. lack of team damage, stunning blocks with quick attacks, active block, movement speed disparity between the 2h classes and everyone else, 1h dmg vs 2h dmg, etc.
100% this. That is really the irony of TW's game design.
Intuition would tell you Captain mode is about leading troops, but the design choices make the most efficient play specifically not leading your troops.
You'd think a Siege mode would be mostly hand to hand infantry fighting, but you quickly find it is about getting as many lances running around in circles as possible.
Intuition would tell you the class system exists for balance, but several classes are just demonstrably superior to others.
The existence of a deep combat system would suggest mastering chamber blocks should be your goal, but to this day I've never seen anyone perform one intentionally and reliably (except the AI, who will regularly perform behind-the-back chambers by accident).
 
100% this. That is really the irony of TW's game design.
Intuition would tell you Captain mode is about leading troops, but the design choices make the most efficient play specifically not leading your troops.
You'd think a Siege mode would be mostly hand to hand infantry fighting, but you quickly find it is about getting as many lances running around in circles as possible.
Intuition would tell you the class system exists for balance, but several classes are just demonstrably superior to others.
The existence of a deep combat system would suggest mastering chamber blocks should be your goal, but to this day I've never seen anyone perform one intentionally and reliably (except the AI, who will regularly perform behind-the-back chambers by accident).
+1
 

flashn00b

Sergeant
Intuition would tell you the class system exists for balance, but several classes are just demonstrably superior to others.
I think the biggest issue i have with the class system is that non-Khuzait non-Vlandian peasant units really only exist to punish players who die as a unit that actually costs points to spawn as. I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I feel like that starting units should be decent enough to be a viable pick for late joiners, which I think will also further encourage spawning as heavier units since the punishment for dying as something expensive would be much less harsh.
 
I think the biggest issue i have with the class system is that non-Khuzait non-Vlandian peasant units really only exist to punish players who die as a unit that actually costs points to spawn as. I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I feel like that starting units should be decent enough to be a viable pick for late joiners, which I think will also further encourage spawning as heavier units since the punishment for dying as something expensive would be much less harsh.
Tbf, on skirm it's a common tactic to spam the lowest tier units, because they usually have a really fast weapon and do decent damage, while being fast as f*ck.
 

FearSpear

Squire
The thing I really don't understand is why 2H weapons are faster than 1H weapons (like short swords)
Because gravity makes the heavier thing fall faster to the earth and therefore when you swing at an angle non parallel to the ground it pulls it down faster than a lighter object. Didn't you ever take Physics?
 

thefirst1nvad3r

Section Moderator
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Because gravity makes the heavier thing fall faster to the earth and therefore when you swing at an angle non parallel to the ground it pulls it down faster than a lighter object. Didn't you ever take Physics?
Physics taught me that a longer and heavier object needs more strength and more time to use than small objects due to its weight and the law of the lever.
But maybe in Turkey Physics work in different ways, like human rights.
 

KSHMR

Sergeant at Arms
Physics taught me that a longer and heavier object needs more strength and more time to use than small objects due to its weight and the law of the lever.
But maybe in Turkey Physics work in different ways, like human rights.
Yeah, or like in Afghanistan. Female rights are pretty much non existent there, or well, they will be, now that the Taliban took over the country without any resistance from the Afghan army.
 

flashn00b

Sergeant
The thing I really don't understand is why 2H weapons are faster than 1H weapons (like short swords)
Probably because even if you block in the wrong direction with a shield, your block still counts, albeit with a harsher penalty on the shield's durability. In a sense, you're still autoblocking with a shield. And TaleWorlds thinks that the lack of omnidirectional blocking warrants faster attack speeds.
 

TheCrusader5

Grandmaster Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
He is right a feather and a bowling ball will both hit the ground at the same time because they both have an acceleration of 9.8 m/s^2. Air resistance is what causes them to fall slower
 
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