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Two-Handed Speed Nerf When?

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Greedalicious

Grandmaster Knight
WB
Reflective friendly fire will help. Actual friendly fire will cause so much teamhitting that nobody will want to play anymore.
 

Younes

Master Knight
WBWF&SNWVC
Just wait for TW to introduce team kill, then people will complain when everyone was asking specifically for reflective TK.
 

IronLion

Recruit
I totally 10000000% agree. Been saying this since I started playing this game! After playing a ton of Warband this issue is really hard to deal with. From my time playing the more balanced game I see someone using 2 handed spam and think 'Oh, awesome I can just get in close and outspeed them with my 1 hander...' totally wrong. They are using an effing great axe or sword and someone they beat you to the punch, it's outrageous. The troops using those weapons also happen to be lightening quick so a lot of players just spin around in half circles trying to counter with their enormous reach, damage and speed advantage. There's very little reason to ever use a 1 hander anymore especially when dueling. I think, as others have pointed out, the issue is largely the bizarre angles that 2 handers can now land at. You can get hit with what *should* be the handle of a great axe and tank 80 damage as if you've been hit with the blade. Warband dealt with this in the best way by having super ranged 2 handers whiff/bounce off your character at too close a range but I don't think I have ever seen this occur in Bannerlord (?) If you're using a 2 handers now it will hit.

That said we've finally finally finally FINALLY got a duel mode so I am grateful for that. If they do balances as well and sort out the lag issues and frame rate drops since a few patches ago then oh lawdy we'll have a game that's getting closer to being as good as Warband.

But yeah plus +111111111111 to this thread.


(P.S I was playing cav earlier online as I wanted to play on auto-pilot for a while and buff up my kill death/ratio - someone managed to injure me? Frustrating glitch. Hope this gets patched soon - not sure I want to play the game with mortal cav units)
 

flashn00b

Sergeant
if they were to make 2h weapons just as fast as 1h assuming identical speed numbers, then there'd be no reason to use 2h weapons if 1h and shield is just as fast and can block arrows.
Gonna quote myself regarding the issue of making 2H weapons slower.

TaleWorlds will likely insist on making 2H weapons faster than 1H (great mauls excluded) since 2H weapons have the downside of "you're giving up the ability to autoblock"

It might be more productive to ask for the buffing of 1H weapons + shield bashing IMO. Perhaps one thing that could be done would be to give shield bashes and weapon shoves a longer hitstun if your opponent is using a 2H weapon? Cuz "Not being able to autoblock or deflect arrows" doesn't seem to be a big enough downside to compensate for the increased speed
 

Moth_Queen

Recruit
I have never been one of the better players in either Warband or Bannerlord, so someone please correct me if this is wrong, but my experience is that any weapon can be arbitrarily fast as long as you turn into the swing. This means that, except for wind-up time, every weapon is the same speed. I can't see them changing this.
Well, they absolutely must. Because this is what's wrong with the combat in game. 2H speedups, phase hits, fullswing feints, no bodyblocks, left swing and thrust being far less effective... You name it!
 

Horatius

Banned
WBNWVC
They should start off with fixing active blocks and stuns, like who tf taught "lets make an invisible system that affects combat" was a good idea?

Have some indicators for what an active block is and when you are stunned, currently it just feels like another bug because you can't attack. I don't care if it is sound, visual or what but just give some damn indicators. This is just making the game artificially hard by making it frustrating.
 

IronLion

Recruit
Gonna quote myself regarding the issue of making 2H weapons slower.

TaleWorlds will likely insist on making 2H weapons faster than 1H (great mauls excluded) since 2H weapons have the downside of "you're giving up the ability to autoblock"

It might be more productive to ask for the buffing of 1H weapons + shield bashing IMO. Perhaps one thing that could be done would be to give shield bashes and weapon shoves a longer hitstun if your opponent is using a 2H weapon? Cuz "Not being able to autoblock or deflect arrows" doesn't seem to be a big enough downside to compensate for the increased speed
I see what you mean but I think even that doesn't make sense since they now allow autoblock to be activated online anyway
 
Gonna quote myself regarding the issue of making 2H weapons slower.

TaleWorlds will likely insist on making 2H weapons faster than 1H (great mauls excluded) since 2H weapons have the downside of "you're giving up the ability to autoblock"

It might be more productive to ask for the buffing of 1H weapons + shield bashing IMO. Perhaps one thing that could be done would be to give shield bashes and weapon shoves a longer hitstun if your opponent is using a 2H weapon? Cuz "Not being able to autoblock or deflect arrows" doesn't seem to be a big enough downside to compensate for the increased speed
Again.. You're only giving up the advantage of "autoblock" [which isn't really the case, because there are block directions with a shield as well, meaning even with a shield you can get hit while blocking] for a short time. If TW really intends on making 2h weapons faster for balancing purposes, they should then at least either reduce their damage or buff shields.

Shields at this point are legit useless. A 1h sword breaks a shield in like 7-9 hits. On Warband a good shield lasted like double that? So what you're saying doesn't really apply to the game right now, as the person WITH the shield doesn't really have an advantage over the person without it.
 
I totally 10000000% agree. Been saying this since I started playing this game! After playing a ton of Warband this issue is really hard to deal with. From my time playing the more balanced game I see someone using 2 handed spam and think 'Oh, awesome I can just get in close and outspeed them with my 1 hander...' totally wrong. They are using an effing great axe or sword and someone they beat you to the punch, it's outrageous. The troops using those weapons also happen to be lightening quick so a lot of players just spin around in half circles trying to counter with their enormous reach, damage and speed advantage. There's very little reason to ever use a 1 hander anymore especially when dueling. I think, as others have pointed out, the issue is largely the bizarre angles that 2 handers can now land at. You can get hit with what *should* be the handle of a great axe and tank 80 damage as if you've been hit with the blade. Warband dealt with this in the best way by having super ranged 2 handers whiff/bounce off your character at too close a range but I don't think I have ever seen this occur in Bannerlord (?) If you're using a 2 handers now it will hit.

That said we've finally finally finally FINALLY got a duel mode so I am grateful for that. If they do balances as well and sort out the lag issues and frame rate drops since a few patches ago then oh lawdy we'll have a game that's getting closer to being as good as Warband.

But yeah plus +111111111111 to this thread.


(P.S I was playing cav earlier online as I wanted to play on auto-pilot for a while and buff up my kill death/ratio - someone managed to injure me? Frustrating glitch. Hope this gets patched soon - not sure I want to play the game with mortal cav units)
Don't forget the fact, that German players, like myself, still have ping and connection issues. This game is nowhere near as good as Warband, not yet at least.
 

Orion

Still Not Worthy
Global Moderator
M&BWBWF&SNW
Eh because there is basically no other modes on this game rn?! Nobody on Skirm will use it, because ppl on skirm can mostly block and know how to counter it. My point and the point of this entire thread is, that 95% of the community aren't rly that experienced and can't block like a champ.
Directional blocking is one of the most basic skills in the game, and with directional attacks forms the core of the franchise's signature combat system. It is not the fault of anyone but you if you cannot do it reliably, and if you don't want to learn that skill then in all honesty you should find another game. It is intrinsic to all things M&B.

Imagine you're completely new to Bannerlord, and you wanna try the Multiplayer..
Then expect to get trashed for a while. This rationale is why we have the class system, universal bi-color banners in SP, no player banners in MP, skirmish instead of battle, and the new AI order menu, among other things. It is not reasonable for someone to expect to perform well doing something they have no experience with, and tailoring systems to these inexperienced people necessitates simplification to make them accessible. This comes at the cost of depth, customization, utility, and/or fine control which experienced users use & enjoy.

M&B does not have many transferrable mechanical skills with other games, it's not like going from Call of Duty to Battlefield where the basic mechanics are the same. This, by contrast, is a niche game that requires players to develop new skills to succeed. New players that want to succeed should practice these skills, not demand with their limited experience that the game be changed to accommodate their choice to not learn/improve and thereby devalue the game for everyone.
 
Directional blocking is one of the most basic skills in the game, and with directional attacks forms the core of the franchise's signature combat system. It is not the fault of anyone but you if you cannot do it reliably, and if you don't want to learn that skill then in all honesty you should find another game. It is intrinsic to all things M&B.

Then expect to get trashed for a while. This rationale is why we have the class system, universal bi-color banners in SP, no player banners in MP, skirmish instead of battle, and the new AI order menu, among other things. It is not reasonable for someone to expect to perform well doing something they have no experience with, and tailoring systems to these inexperienced people necessitates simplification to make them accessible. This comes at the cost of depth, customization, utility, and/or fine control which experienced users use & enjoy.

M&B does not have many transferrable mechanical skills with other games, it's not like going from Call of Duty to Battlefield where the basic mechanics are the same. This, by contrast, is a niche game that requires players to develop new skills to succeed. New players that want to succeed should practice these skills, not demand with their limited experience that the game be changed to accommodate their choice to not learn/improve and thereby devalue the game for everyone.
"devalue the game for everyone" yeah... fixing totally broken Two-Handed weapons is devaluing the game ^^. I am fairly sure, the only party that's devaluing the game is TaleWorlds Entertainment by adding stupid bs like a singleplayer intro video, while their MP servers crash, freeze and/or lag every 5 minutes, @Orion
 

Orion

Still Not Worthy
Global Moderator
M&BWBWF&SNW
Your argument shifted from "two-handed weapons are too fast because they beat out one-handers" to "two-handers are too fast because new players don't know how to block." Don't shift the goalposts and then be snarky when you still don't get the answer you want.
 
Your argument shifted from "two-handed weapons are too fast because they beat out one-handers" to "two-handers are too fast because new players don't know how to block." Don't shift the goalposts and then be snarky when you still don't get the answer you want.
My argument was about Two-Handers being broken and totally overpowered. Only because I made a point about new players having problems with the current speed of some weapons, on top of the above mentioned issue, doesn't mean that my entire thread is based on that, does it? Also, I wasn't being snarky.. just stating facts that the majority of the people I play Bannerlord with, agree with. You can't honestly deny that the game came out prematurely.

"HEY LET'S CREATE A PROFANITY FILTER THAT DOESN'T WORK AT ALL, 'CUZ THAT'S DEFINITELY IMPORTANT!" -TW Dev Team
"but didn't players complain about the server stability, and broken weapons and mechanics? How about we fix that, and do the unimportant stuff afterwards?" - Voice in the background
"SHUT UP! WE DON'T CARE ABOUT WHAT THE PLAYERS WANT!" -TW Dev Team
 
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OurGloriousLeader

Grandmaster Knight
Directional blocking is one of the most basic skills in the game, and with directional attacks forms the core of the franchise's signature combat system. It is not the fault of anyone but you if you cannot do it reliably, and if you don't want to learn that skill then in all honesty you should find another game. It is intrinsic to all things M&B.
This is true but there are ways to encourage learning and ways to encourage other forms of playing; I encourage you to join a TDM server in BL and see whether blocking is what the gameplay encourages, or whether it's spamming 2handers (I am probably leading you to the correct answer!)

Ofc that doesn't mean 2h are inherently OP, but there are many gameplay decisions I disagree with that encourage it e.g. lack of team damage, stunning blocks with quick attacks, active block, movement speed disparity between the 2h classes and everyone else, 1h dmg vs 2h dmg, etc.
 

ParzivaI

Veteran
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
The problem is not the 2h weapon being fast,it's the one handed weapons underperforming, they are slow and do low damage, I actually enjoy the 2h on this game they feel right , some one handed on the other hand...
 
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