Tweaking Books

[Khalim]

Hi!

Is there a possibility to modify books, so that they give a +1 Bonus(like trainer) instead of +1 permanent skill?

The reason I want to change this is, because it make characterdevelopment much more easier and comfortable(if you try to optimize your character^^)

If i plan ahead a character, there is the problem that I have to increase skills from the start on, to access the boni of the books early. For instance you skill your agility to 18 and then increase weaponmastery from 6 to 7 with the book
But if you have sparepoints left in the lategame you cannot really skill agility as there is no possibility to raise weaponmastery to 8 if you have already read the book.

As you see, I consider books as tools to exceed requirements

For instance, if you are heading to play a masterful archer you are "forced" to skill agility, intelligence and charisma to a certain level and THEN invest points into strength in order to gain the boni of the books. Or instead, you first skill strength but then it takes a LOOOONG time when you can read the book to use it efficiently.

Quite annoying as there are already books which do not have this problem, but not all of them.

Personally I do not like tweaking things if they bring nothing but advantages but tweaking books like I have suggested , also gets you disadvantages like more needed inventory slots and lost sell value of the books



By the way: Thanks to the User who found out how to increase the timefactor of the game! I tried it out and think that are really helpful things which improve game experience extremely

And it is no cheating

 

[robbyg]

Some books do give bonuses while in inventory (im sure there's a +training and +first aid for example)

As for changing the requirements of learning books, its better to ask in the Forge.

 

[nood]

I would like them changed to something like that too.

My lvl 38 char has read none because I don't know whether they will be wasted, so the current system doesn't work well at all!
This would also remove the SP cheat of rereading books after export/import, no biggy but at least it removes the temptation

 

[NaimaR]

I don't understand the problem... You're saying you read a book, and then is is wasted? 
As far as I know, you can read the "same" book multiple times, as long as you physically buy a new copy.
I.e. find a Book Seller and buy his +1 Leadership book.
Once you've read it, sell it, find the Book Seller again and hope he has replenished his merchandise. Buy the +1 Leadership book again and read it. Profit?

 

[ramonb]

I don't understand the problem... You're saying you read a book, and then is is wasted? 
As far as I know, you can read the "same" book multiple times, as long as you physically buy a new copy.
I.e. find a Book Seller and buy his +1 Leadership book.
Once you've read it, sell it, find the Book Seller again and hope he has replenished his merchandise. Buy the +1 Leadership book again and read it. Profit?

Nope, once You read a book, that's it, don't bother buying a new copy of the same book, it will show reading progress as 100%, so no attribute gain. Unless You are using the import/read/export flaw. (described by Nood on this thread.)

 

[nood]

I don't understand the problem... You're saying you read a book, and then is is wasted? 
As far as I know, you can read the "same" book multiple times, as long as you physically buy a new copy.
I.e. find a Book Seller and buy his +1 Leadership book.
Once you've read it, sell it, find the Book Seller again and hope he has replenished his merchandise. Buy the +1 Leadership book again and read it. Profit?

If you have a character with 3 Leadership and 9 Charisma, you read the book that adds one to Leadership.
If you later increase Charisma/Leadership you will have wasted the book (In terms of maxing). Basic RPG min-maxing doesn't work due to this mechanism.

If you can read the same book multiple times, its a bug, you are not supposed to be able to do that.

 

[Khalim]

exactly @nood.

Its all about exceeding the limits

And I would not suppose this as bug nor a cheat as there are already books which work as they "should". If you have trainer on 3 and 9 Int you can increase Trainer with the book to 4. If you then increase Int to 12, you could not increase trainer though, but you can sell the book, increase the stat and rebuy it
Then you have Int on 12 and Trainer on 4+1

 

[Charles du Lac]

You can not exceed stat limits even with a book. If you are at 10 and that is the current limit, then reading a book will not make it go to 11. A book increase just gets it to you sooner than leveling up and using a skill point that you can use elsewhere. If you use TweakMB you can increase the limit to 15, but again a book will not make it go over.

 

[Kellick]

exactly @nood.

Its all about exceeding the limits

And I would not suppose this as bug nor a cheat as there are already books which work as they "should". If you have trainer on 3 and 9 Int you can increase Trainer with the book to 4. If you then increase Int to 12, you could not increase trainer though, but you can sell the book, increase the stat and rebuy it
Then you have Int on 12 and Trainer on 4+1

Are you sure about that? I'm pretty sure I was still able to raise trainer to int/3 even with the book in my inventory.

To the OP, I feel your pain but it just takes a little bit of planning. High 20s it takes a really long time to level if you are not cheating. So if you set a target level, say 29 or 32 (those are good levels to me because with the int book you can have all abilitys in multiples of 3 for the skillbreakpoints) and figure out what you are going to have your character look like at that level then you know whether or not to read a book and when. It helps to save your game and enable cheat mode and then level the character up to that level and spend the points and see where you are at. So if I see that I will be able to go to 27 cha with my current build then I will definitly save the leadership book until then. Depending if I am maxing trade or not the same for that book. The intelligence book is a nobrainer. I generally use the weaponmaster book after 3 as well, whether I am going to raise agility higher or not since I find wm 4 to be sufficient for my builds, but you might not. Then just go ahead and reload your game from where you left off.

 

[kefka95]

Hi!

Is there a possibility to modify books, so that they give a +1 Bonus(like trainer) instead of +1 permanent skill?

The book effects should be relatively easy to tweak, although I have to admit I still don't quite understand what you're looking for.  Do you basically just want it so all books give you the "bonus while in your inventory" type of effect (as opposed to the "read once and it disappears" type of effect)?

 

[Khalim]

I know that you cannot exceed skill level 10.

But the problem is, that you start a character and plan(for instance) to get Agility 15 and weaponmaster 5 and increase it with the book permanently.

Now you face two problems if you want to go this way:

1, you have to skill agility to 15 early on, as you do not want to wait for hundrets of ingame days, when you reach a high level
2, once you have reached a level where you "do not know what to skill" you might want to go to agility 18.

If you then skill agility to 18 you cannot increase weaponmastery from 6 to 7
As you imagine a book which gives the bonus while in inventory does not have this issue

I hope I could explain the problem. Actually it is no big problem because I have found out how to bypass it. If I want to increase a skillpoint which is limited by an attribute I could use Tweak MB to change the needed attribute to another one which is higher and then increase the skill.

Books are just stupid if you plan to make a "perfect" character... First you use them and gain a good advantage and when you increase your attributes you actually crush this advantage (of exceeding skills which would need a higher attribute)
Avoiding this is linked with heavy inconveniences in character planning.

 

[nood]

Hi!

Is there a possibility to modify books, so that they give a +1 Bonus(like trainer) instead of +1 permanent skill?

The book effects should be relatively easy to tweak, although I have to admit I still don't quite understand what you're looking for.  Do you basically just want it so all books give you the "bonus while in your inventory" type of effect (as opposed to the "read once and it disappears" type of effect)?

That would be nice, but then you have the extra slots used up. Still an improvement overall.

The ideal solution would be for them to provide a floating bonus, ie Charisma 9 Leadership 3, the book adds +1 to Leadership to make 4, but if you then develop Charisma to 12 you can still add a point to Leadership and the bonus is then applied afterwards. Is that possible?

 

[Sammyboy]

I think the best fix would be for the gained stats to not be counted for capping.

 

[allthesedamnnamesaretaken]

If every book gave a carry bonus then your inventory will be full of books. The extra skill points you save would have to go into inventory management lol

 

[Sammyboy]

hey definitely shouldn't stack.

 

[Kellick]

Khalim if that is what you want to do it is even easier than that.
You don't use tweakmb to do it, you just export your character, which creates a text file and then you edit that and import it, all from the same game, while it is running. No need to save, load, shutdown, any of that.

I know where you are coming from because I used to do just that as well. So I would read say the leadership book and then when I added that 3rd point of cha, I would export, subract 1 skill point and raise my leadership by 1 point.

After playing the game for a while, trying all kinds of character builds, including cheating and making characters with maxed stats to see the effects I can honestly say there isn't really a need for it. Like I said in another post (lol, looking around the forum it was YOUR other thread), even with 85 health and lordly plate, winged helm ,gaunts, plate boots, reinforced shield...there will always be some Rhodok sharpshooter out there who gets to yell "BOOM! HEADSHOT!" (and yes I would credit whoevers signature I got that from with it if I could remember who it was) and while you can wade into a pile of enemys and kill most of them, if you are not careful and don't block and act carelessly sooner or later even a lowly footman will get lucky and take you down.

My advice is just enjoy the game and don't obsess over it. Lately I have been playing with Floris' template (Me, Floris...really great reading, more than just an AAR...I have learned a lot about playing the game from Monnikje, and probably more than just playing better, actually enjoying the game much more) and it has been a lot of fun.

I remember when I first looked at it though. I thought "no ironskin? no shield skill? I'll get killed even more than I already do. pathfinding and tracking? that's just crazy, I've got Borcha for that...no powerdraw? I'm a much better archer than meleer and the crossbow takes SO long to reload. trading on main too? jeez no points for combat skills I'll never win a tourney.

The toon is still very effective in battle. Does that mean the other skills I no longer have are worthless? No. I've found that shield and ironskin (once you get decent armor, before then the extra health  doesn't even amount to an extra hit usually) skills allow you to be a lot more reckless in battle, and so they are worthwhile skills if you want to be a more powerful warrior. I still think a warbow is more versatile and just as deadly once you get your skills high (I got as many 1 shot kills with my bow as with the siege xbow) not to mention more fun but powerdraw and horse archery are a major investment. There are times I miss athletics even playing as a mounted knight (because theres still tourneys, prison breakins, bandit lairs and ambushes) but since this character isn't really built so well for those things I tend to do them less and I try to be more careful when I do do them.

Sorry to turn this into a disertation on character design but my point is I wouldn't worry about trying to min/max (and again I am someone with the same tendency). Trust me though it will be far easier to export and give yourself 30 in all stats and 10 in all skills and 460 in all weaponskills (everyone should do firearm and grab a flintlock and cartridges out of the cheatmenu at least once just for the lulz!) and a ton of money and go run amok for a while. You'll get bored fast but it did make for a good learning experience for me.

 

[kefka95]

Okay, I think I finally came up with a tweak to get this to work.  This will make it so that once you've read a book, you will have a permanent "floating" +1 bonus to the applicable skill (this is the same as the "while book is in your inventory" bonus).  Once you've finished reading the book, you can get rid of it and still retain the bonus.  This will ONLY affect the books that you actually have to read.  The three books that normally give the "while book is in your inventory" bonus are still required to stay in your inventory if you want the bonus from those books.

This has been tested (sparingly) with 1.113 Native.  It may or may not work with any other mods:

Go to your SCRIPTS.TXT file and find the following:

game_get_skill_modifier_for_troop -1
20 23 2 1224979098644774912 1 23 2 1224979098644774913 2 2133 2 1224979098644774914 0 4 0 31 2 1224979098644774913 1369094286720630795 1 3 936748722493063579 1224979098644774912 288230376151711832 32 2 72057594037927936 0 2105 2 1224979098644774914 1 5 0 31 2 1224979098644774913 1369094286720630801 1 3 936748722493063579 1224979098644774912 288230376151711833 32 2 72057594037927936 0 2105 2 1224979098644774914 1 5 0 31 2 1224979098644774913 1369094286720630794 1 3 936748722493063579 1224979098644774912 288230376151711834 32 2 72057594037927936 0 2105 2 1224979098644774914 1 3 0 2075 1 1224979098644774914

Replace the entire line with this:

game_get_skill_modifier_for_troop -1
50 23 2 1224979098644774912 1 23 2 1224979098644774913 2 2133 2 1224979098644774914 0 4 0 31 2 1224979098644774913 1369094286720630795 1 3 936748722493063579 1224979098644774912 288230376151711832 32 2 72057594037927936 0 2105 2 1224979098644774914 1 5 0 31 2 1224979098644774913 1369094286720630801 1 3 936748722493063579 1224979098644774912 288230376151711833 32 2 72057594037927936 0 2105 2 1224979098644774914 1 5 0 31 2 1224979098644774913 1369094286720630794 1 3 936748722493063579 1224979098644774912 288230376151711834 32 2 72057594037927936 0 2105 2 1224979098644774914 1 5 0 31 2 1224979098644774913 1369094286720630799 527 3 1224979098644774914 288230376151711825 3 32 2 1224979098644774914 0 2133 2 1224979098644774914 1 5 0 31 2 1224979098644774913 1369094286720630791 527 3 1224979098644774914 288230376151711826 3 32 2 1224979098644774914 0 2133 2 1224979098644774914 1 5 0 31 2 1224979098644774913 1369094286720630785 527 3 1224979098644774914 288230376151711827 3 32 2 1224979098644774914 0 2133 2 1224979098644774914 1 5 0 31 2 1224979098644774913 1369094286720630784 527 3 1224979098644774914 288230376151711829 3 32 2 1224979098644774914 0 2133 2 1224979098644774914 1 5 0 31 2 1224979098644774913 1369094286720630811 527 3 1224979098644774914 288230376151711830 3 32 2 1224979098644774914 0 2133 2 1224979098644774914 1 5 0 31 2 1224979098644774913 1369094286720630792 527 3 1224979098644774914 288230376151711831 3 32 2 1224979098644774914 0 2133 2 1224979098644774914 1 3 0 2075 1 1224979098644774914

Next, go to your SIMPLE_TRIGGERS.TXT file and find the following:

1.000000  46 2147483685 0 32 2 144115188075856179 0 150 1 144115188075856179 2172 3 1224979098644774912 360287970189639680 2 527 3 1224979098644774913 144115188075856179 4 2147483680 2 1224979098644774913 1224979098644774912 527 3 1224979098644774914 144115188075856179 2 527 3 1224979098644774915 144115188075856179 3 31 2 1224979098644774915 0 2105 2 1224979098644774914 7 507 3 144115188075856179 2 1224979098644774914 30 2 1224979098644774914 1000 507 3 144115188075856179 3 1 2325 2 1 144115188075856179 2319 1 2 4 0 31 2 144115188075856179 288230376151711825 1521 3 360287970189639680 1369094286720630799 1 2320 2 2 1585267068834415116 5 0 31 2 144115188075856179 288230376151711826 1521 3 360287970189639680 1369094286720630791 1 2320 2 2 1585267068834415117 5 0 31 2 144115188075856179 288230376151711827 1521 3 360287970189639680 1369094286720630785 1 2320 2 2 1585267068834415118 5 0 31 2 144115188075856179 288230376151711828 1520 3 360287970189639680 2 1 2320 2 2 1585267068834415119 5 0 31 2 144115188075856179 288230376151711829 1521 3 360287970189639680 1369094286720630784 1 2320 2 2 1585267068834415120 5 0 31 2 144115188075856179 288230376151711830 1521 3 360287970189639680 1369094286720630811 1 2320 2 2 1585267068834415121 5 0 31 2 144115188075856179 288230376151711831 1521 3 360287970189639680 1369094286720630792 1 2320 2 2 1585267068834415122 3 0 1120 2 1585267068834415123 1585267068834415124 2133 2 144115188075856179 0

Replace the entire line with this:

1.000000  40 2147483685 0 32 2 144115188075856179 0 150 1 144115188075856179 2172 3 1224979098644774912 360287970189639680 2 527 3 1224979098644774913 144115188075856179 4 2147483680 2 1224979098644774913 1224979098644774912 527 3 1224979098644774914 144115188075856179 2 527 3 1224979098644774915 144115188075856179 3 31 2 1224979098644774915 0 2105 2 1224979098644774914 1001 507 3 144115188075856179 2 1224979098644774914 30 2 1224979098644774914 1000 507 3 144115188075856179 3 1 2325 2 1 144115188075856179 2319 1 2 4 0 31 2 144115188075856179 288230376151711825 2320 2 2 1585267068834415116 5 0 31 2 144115188075856179 288230376151711826 2320 2 2 1585267068834415117 5 0 31 2 144115188075856179 288230376151711827 2320 2 2 1585267068834415118 5 0 31 2 144115188075856179 288230376151711828 1520 3 360287970189639680 2 1 2320 2 2 1585267068834415119 5 0 31 2 144115188075856179 288230376151711829 2320 2 2 1585267068834415120 5 0 31 2 144115188075856179 288230376151711830 2320 2 2 1585267068834415121 5 0 31 2 144115188075856179 288230376151711831 2320 2 2 1585267068834415122 3 0 1120 2 1585267068834415123 1585267068834415124 2133 2 144115188075856179 0

Good luck!

 

[Khalim]

Khalim if that is what you want to do it is even easier than that.
You don't use tweakmb to do it, you just export your character, which creates a text file and then you edit that and import it, all from the same game, while it is running. No need to save, load, shutdown, any of that.

Yeah, a spledid idea! I found out this today. It works perfectly to avout this little shortcomming of the game

Sorry to turn this into a disertation on character design but my point is I wouldn't worry about trying to min/max

You are right. Optimizing the caracter and caring for each stat does not change the game a lot. And if I have 4 or 5 leadership with or without book won't get me more often killed in battle. But I like it to think about how I can press my caracter to the limit and create a design which might be specialized AND has some allrounder abilities.

Currently I am playing an archer again and increasing strenght from the beginning on makes much more fun Luckily as I was, I have found a masterful long bow in one of the first battles and now I am level ~15 and can use it. Sometimes I get a one hit kill with the bow
When I have maxed out StR and AGI I can increase Int and Char without to worry that I miss something out concerning the books.

Having fun with the game is most important, but you have also keep in mind that there are players who like to optimize. I do not deny that there might be an obsession

PS.: Kefka, thanks for the affords you have done, but actually there is an easier way

 

[NaimaR]

I can't say I've ever run across this problem...
Unless you focus only on 4-5 skills, I can see the problem yeah... But usually, when all my top-priority skills are at the cap, I put my spare points into inventory management, prisoner management, training, wound treatment or persuasion.
None of those can be considered vital skills, but they will still be nice to have.

 

[nood]

I can't say I've ever run across this problem...

Then you haven't read/understood the thread. It affects everyone that plays M&B/Warband, unless you don't buy books.

kefka95 has provided a fix so that books you read provide a floating bonus. This means that now you can read them when the associated skill is at a lower level, rather than needing to wait indefinately to still gain a bonus at late/end game.
It's not a big issue, but it is a nice fix to a badly designed feature.

@ kefka95 - Thanks for doing this