TW make reinforcements spawn outside the map limits and march into battle area

Does reinforcments need an overhaul

  • Yes

    Votes: 94 94.0%
  • no

    Votes: 6 6.0%

  • Total voters
    100

Users who are viewing this thread

DennyWiseau

Veteran
Some things in Bannerlord seem somewhat outdated from a design and implementation pov, some of them can be excused but the way reinforcment work cannot. In Bannerlord you often find yourself in a "moving" battle where armies shift back and forth to gain the advantage. However, this back and forth is ALLWAYS ruined when reinforcements spawn out of the air, sometimes almost on top of your units. This is very frustrating and really takes away from what is supposed to be the strongest feature of Mount and Blade, the battles.

The total war games have had a simple solution for this issue for decades now. The reinforcing army spawns outside the map and march into the battlefield where they join the main army. Its very simple but effective because it gives the player time to regroup and reposition the army before further clashes. There might be a better/more interesting solution but this is proven solution to a problem that negativly influence the (arguably) most important feauture in the game.
 

Jehiel

Recruit
Or it can be an ineffective solution because if you destroy the main enemy army fast enough - which doesn't seem that rare or hard in cases where you have a big advantage or are well prepared - then you can just camp the edge of the map and kill the reinforcing units 1 by 1 as they enter the map.
 

Memoefe

Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Reinforcements could use redesign but having reinforcements spawn outside and then march in battlefield would not work.

In total war it works because map is huge and generally speaking battle happens in the center.
 

DennyWiseau

Veteran
Or it can be an ineffective solution because if you destroy the main enemy army fast enough - which doesn't seem that rare or hard in cases where you have a big advantage or are well prepared - then you can just camp the edge of the map and kill the reinforcing units 1 by 1 as they enter the map.
Never been an issue in total war games even though its perfectly doable
 

Jehiel

Recruit
Never been an issue in total war games even though its perfectly doable

As Memoefe said its because in Total War the maps are huge. And no, I don't think it would be good if Bannerlord maps became as huge.

I think reinforcements can be tweaked and improved but it's not as simple and clear cut as "well just do it how another game in a totally different genre does it"
 

Askorti

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WB
Or it can be an ineffective solution because if you destroy the main enemy army fast enough - which doesn't seem that rare or hard in cases where you have a big advantage or are well prepared - then you can just camp the edge of the map and kill the reinforcing units 1 by 1 as they enter the map.
I don't see how this is any different from camping the spawn point that is in the middle of the map.

Also, if you want to ruin your fun by exploiting a perfectly normal mechanic, that is completely up to you. But if you want to play like a normal human being, the current spawn system kinda ruins your fun no matter what you do.
 

Ananda_The_Destroyer

Master Knight
Yes please, especially for your own reinforcements who spawn from you killing enemies and making room for them . Currently they spawn in an area that is often in the middle of enemies, or have to pass through enemies to reach their position and they die because too stupid to go around. I would rather turn off own reinforcements then to lose troops to stupid stuff like that.
 

Julio-Claudian

Sergeant Knight
Or it can be an ineffective solution because if you destroy the main enemy army fast enough - which doesn't seem that rare or hard in cases where you have a big advantage or are well prepared - then you can just camp the edge of the map and kill the reinforcing units 1 by 1 as they enter the map.
You can pretty much do this already if you move to where the enemy first spawned, or just if you're the defender in the battle and have a similar or greater number of troops than the attackers. The reinforcements also shouldn't enter the map 1 by 1 but in larger groups.
 

black_bulldog

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SVC
You can pretty much do this already if you move to where the enemy first spawned, or just if you're the defender in the battle and have a similar or greater number of troops than the attackers. The reinforcements also shouldn't enter the map 1 by 1 but in larger groups.
I'm pretty sure that's how Warband did it, reinforcements would come in, in waves not in 1's and 2's.
 

Honved

Knight
I can't count the number of times in Warband where I was taken down by enemy troops which suddenly spawned around me or directly behind me, when things were completely clear only a second before. Surprise, you just took 3 javelins or throwing axes to the back from short range, and are down before the other 9 guys with polearms, swords, and axes can even swing them at you.

Reinforcements usually came on in groups of around 15-20, give or take, so it wasn't a trickle of 1s and 2s. That was generally enough to put up a bit of a fight, unless the first wave got completely wrecked in seconds. If things are that one-sided already, then the reinforcements probably aren't going to change the outcome anyway. Camping near the edge of the map to take out the reinforcements as they arrive is no cheesier than camping next to the current reinforcement point, and actually a bit harder to do because it's further away.

As said, making armor all but pointless makes high-tier troops unreasonably vulnerable to weak ranged attacks which would realistically just bounce off with little or no actual damage to the wearer. One can expect to take a couple of losses if you're running your handful of elite troops up against 5x or 10x their number of ill-trained and badly equipped looters, but taking significant casualties against such opposition at even odds borders on absurdity. "Sir Cedric just got killed by a ****ing ROCK!, that's just about impossible!" "Quite possible, that was a depleted Uranium high-velocity armor piercing rock. All looters have them".
 

Ttauket

Recruit
Keep coming your suggestions, for sure, it's an important discussion to have :xf-smile:

Here is another thread where we were already trying to find a solution to the reinforcements issue

Taleworlds will have to pick the good one :giggle:

For me here is the solution from @Pejot ; "They should just split the battle into multiple stages that will happen until one side runs out of units fit to fight. Maybe even with some time passing on the map between this stages. Something like battles taking a couple of days to resolve."
 

yangot

Veteran
Yeah RBM already improved the reinforcement. Reinforcement spawn in batch from far behind of the allied force.
For me here is the solution from @Pejot ; "They should just split the battle into multiple stages that will happen until one side runs out of units fit to fight. Maybe even with some time passing on the map between this stages. Something like battles taking a couple of days to resolve."
Did you mean troops spawn per round? Like 500vs500, after that, the map will reset and spawn the next 500vs500 or remaining troops?
 

froggyluv

Grandmaster Knight
NW
what happened to that amazing Reinforcement mod which actually had nearby Map parties join the battle from the real direction they were on the map and they would phase in ala Total War style?
 
First you need to separate Reinforcements and Respawning.

Respawns SHOULD happen where the current group / unit is located - Archers respawn just behind the archer unit, etc etc. This should happen because game limits how many soldiers can be in the battle.

Reinforcements SHOULD happen at map edge, linked to strat map armies moving to the battle.

.
 

Bluko88

Regular
some of them can be excused but the way reinforcment work cannot. In Bannerlord you often find yourself in a "moving" battle where armies shift back and forth to gain the advantage. However, this back and forth is ALLWAYS ruined when reinforcements spawn out of the air, sometimes almost on top of your units. This is very frustrating and really takes away from what is supposed to be the strongest feature of Mount and Blade, the battles.
Exactly

Seems like it should be pretty simple to have units spawn in the out of bounds, and if not that how about at the actually boundaries at least?

You should be penalized for losing troops, due to troops having to catch up to your formations. Or vice versa getting too aggressive with an enemy that still has many reserves.


I'm so sick of troops popping out of thin air. It's bad for not just immersion, but gameplay too. Obviously this is a game, so many things will be artificial - like troops despawning at boundaries for instance. But as is you literally benefit sometimes from "losing" since friendly troops will just spawn within an enemy formations and cause all sorts of havok. TW is so dense to this issue, shows how little they play their game. I got a particular battle save from way back when (might have changed a bit with battle terrain) that really illustrates how bad it can get.

Honestly I'm amazed folks are still playing this game, I can only assume most just haven't put that much time into. I flat out will not recommend this game to anyone til TW does something about this. A lot of things can be excused as "we're working on it" or "it's no a priority" or "we have a different vision", but considering battles are about the only thing that make playing this game worthwhile as is - IDK TW you might want to address it.

But I guess TW has no compulsions about treating their fanbase like lab rats. But whatever good will you've built up from Warband is gone, even the most upbeat streamers are having a hard time excusing the game's faults at this point, I see it. All I gotta say is TW you do what you want, but don't be surprised if any future game releases of yours fail to sell.
 

Antaeus

Sergeant at Arms
Reinforcements could use redesign but having reinforcements spawn outside and then march in battlefield would not work.

In total war it works because map is huge and generally speaking battle happens in the center.

Wherever they occur, it should be behind the position of the current units on the map.

As they exist currently, appearing in the spawn point, in the middle of the map, they remove the players ability to use any tactical space behind their initial spawn point, otherwise reinforcements appear in enemy battlespace.

Conversely, if the player advances too far, enemy reinforcements can spawn behind their axis of advance, magically appearing in the player's ranks or behind them.

When you combine this with the tendency for AI characters to reform when they get reinforcements, it makes battles devolve into chaos with soldiers all over the map.

It's one of my few gripes.
 

Ttauket

Recruit
Did you mean troops spawn per round? Like 500vs500, after that, the map will reset and spawn the next 500vs500 or remaining troops?
Yep :smile:

Between 2 rounds, you even could have reinforcement for another army close to you or try to leave, negotiate ...

Big battle will last much more time but I think it's realistic and easily manageable to implement, no more magic spawning wherever in the battle ^^
 
Last edited:

Memoefe

Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Wherever they occur, it should be behind the position of the current units on the map.

As they exist currently, appearing in the spawn point, in the middle of the map, they remove the players ability to use any tactical space behind their initial spawn point, otherwise reinforcements appear in enemy battlespace.

Conversely, if the player advances too far, enemy reinforcements can spawn behind their axis of advance, magically appearing in the player's ranks or behind them.

When you combine this with the tendency for AI characters to reform when they get reinforcements, it makes battles devolve into chaos with soldiers all over the map.

It's one of my few gripes.
Not a bad suggestion, but tbh there are still problems in that design.

Generally armies are scattered in the battlefield, so sometimes there are no 'behind side'. Also just because i advanced too far i wouldnt want to be punished by having enemy spawn behind me.
 

Honved

Knight
Reinforcements should spawn on or just beyond the map edge, but not at a single fixed location for each map. Each time a group appears, it should spawn at one of 3 or 4 locations (not too far apart), so the opponent can't just camp at the map edge and wait for them to appear, although they still won't be too far away. If an army is losing, it should begin back-pedaling toward its own map edge and shortening the distance to its reinforcements, while increasing the time it takes for the opponent's reinforcements to reach the shifting front.

If an army can crush the initial formation and also divert troops to reach the map edge before the next group spawns, chances are that the battle is so one-sided that the reinforcements aren't going to matter anyway. If the lager force bypasses the initial formation and heads straight for the map edge, then they're not inflicting casualties to make the new group spawn.

Having the new spawns appear well into the map is just wrong from several standpoints.
 
Top Bottom