[TUTORIAL] Custom Knighthood Order

[Alavaria]

I think, ultimately, this point is moot. I never use any prestige on KO units and I usually recruit a batch of nobles only once in the game. I never run out of prestige, money, OR nobles. With 10+4 surgery your units don't die much so auto-regen usually takes care of your needs. If you have 4 fiefs with chapters of regular KO or CKO you'll never run out of units.

Really once you start toting around a bunch of lords with their auto-regen units (lords don't regen if you are in a campaign though, so just get them to follow you normally) you'll never run out of units.

It's like once you have a few fiefs (and goodness if you rebelled with towns and have plenty of villages) it's just a few conversions away until you're in "just gotta grind all the territory to win" mode.

 

[sher]

Actually crossbows for sergeants can be very good as temporary ranged option. They're not hard to equip since you'd want simple bolts with heaviest crossbows for more ammo and sergeants are trained kinda slow really: now my sergeants have Power Strike 7, Athletics 6, Shield 4 and one handed pro 250 while they still have 160-170 in ranged pros => very competent melee fighters but as archers... only in defensive sieges and as FAA type of infantry in field battles if I had to use them right now. While with some siege crossbows they could act as more melee EAC. First trainer usually some "sir" and they are no archers to increase PD but crossbow don't need it.

If I would equip sergeants right now from the start I would go with siege crossbows as a starting ranged weapon and switch to powerful bows later with high PD and pro. EAC play this role already but it still would be better I guess. It doesn't matter for me now since I already have bow equipped and equipping of Netherworld shield and noldor maiden armor at STR 21 will take a lot of time for Archery to grow up I hope, just some thoughts for future games.

P.S. Maybe I'd reequip them with crossbows just for testing and fun (if archery will still be mediocre), I really like elite crossbowmen like mettenheim for example

 

[Dante_Goujian]

I am not sure what I am doing wrong.  Lets me start a custom knighthood order, removing 1 qualis gem and 20000 denar, however once it has been purchased I dont go to the screen where I name the Order.  The Steward just says. "Excellent my Liege, I will see to it personally.  Anything else."

I have tried both as a vassal and after starting my own Kingdom in two separate games.

 

[Moridin]

I am not sure what I am doing wrong.  Lets me start a custom knighthood order, removing 1 qualis gem and 20000 denar, however once it has been purchased I dont go to the screen where I name the Order.  The Steward just says. "Excellent my Liege, I will see to it personally.  Anything else."

I have tried both as a vassal and after starting my own Kingdom in two separate games.

This was a bug that's already been fixed in the latest version, download and apply the patch. It should be save compatible IIRC, although you won't get any lost Qualis gems back.

 

[Dante_Goujian]

Thanks!

 

[sher]

The more I fiddle with equipment of my sergeants the more I like the whole idea of sergeants as infantry. In previous games I ended up with idle mounted sergeants who were eating my money sitting in garrisons, I rarely needed them since I had other cavalry, even if not so tough. For capturing prisoners there are enough CKO knights, especially if you'll convert your initial faction troops before changing culture to pendor.

As for equipment I lean towards low encumbrance foot ranger. Early it is better to use heavy crossbows as ranged option since they are very fast to equip (9 days for croosbows and 6 days for bolts). When skills and pros are good enough for bows - reequip with bows and arrows (cheapest arrows first, to minimize period when they cannot shoot with bows and blots). I use rangers not like giant firing line which totally kills all attackers but as fire support to kill suitable targets and flankers. Usually field battles are like this (~20 archers present with maximum default battlesize):
1. F1-F3-F1-F2 - they break formations and form a line;
2. Move to suitable hill to let archers hold position on it in the end;
3. F1-F1 in right spot;
4. 2-F2-F4, F2-F2 - archers will stand closer behind other troops;
5. =-F2-F1 - other troops will rotate towards enemy and will be able to fire;
6. After deaths of few bait soldiers AI will send for provocations, in the right moment F1-F3 to create a fighting zone at a distance from my shooters.

This way firing line is relatively safe from harm, has time to kill few flankers trying to reach it and just kills suitable targets behind main fighting force. Later they'll just hold position closer and closer to enemy spawning point and eventually just charge when no more serious threat is present.

Thus they only face cavalry and scattered enemy so they'll better to have long weapons and in this case I suppose Runed Bastard Sword will be better than Ebony Long Sword. Maybe not too much but still. They don't need much ammo with this tactics and usually I use them for very hard encounters when they need burst damage, so I thnik noldor arrows are better then melitine for such application.

So final weapon setup is like this:
1. Runed Bastard Sword;
2. Noldor Composite Bow;
3. Netherworld shield (best Resistance and with high Shield skill coverage should be fine);
4. Noldor Arrows.

 

[Krozzy]

Spoiler

The more I fiddle with equipment of my sergeants the more I like the whole idea of sergeants as infantry. In previous games I ended up with idle mounted sergeants who were eating my money sitting in garrisons, I rarely needed them since I had other cavalry, even if not so tough. For capturing prisoners there are enough CKO knights, especially if you'll convert your initial faction troops before changing culture to pendor.

As for equipment I lean towards low encumbrance foot ranger. Early it is better to use heavy crossbows as ranged option since they are very fast to equip (9 days for croosbows and 6 days for bolts). When skills and pros are good enough for bows - reequip with bows and arrows (cheapest arrows first, to minimize period when they cannot shoot with bows and blots). I use rangers not like giant firing line which totally kills all attackers but as fire support to kill suitable targets and flankers. Usually field battles are like this (~20 archers present with maximum default battlesize):
1. F1-F3-F1-F2 - they break formations and form a line;
2. Move to suitable hill to let archers hold position on it in the end;
3. F1-F1 in right spot;
4. 2-F2-F4, F2-F2 - archers will stand closer behind other troops;
5. =-F2-F1 - other troops will rotate towards enemy and will be able to fire;
6. After deaths of few bait soldiers AI will send for provocations, in the right moment F1-F3 to create a fighting zone at a distance from my shooters.

This way firing line is relatively safe from harm, has time to kill few flankers trying to reach it and just kills suitable targets behind main fighting force. Later they'll just hold position closer and closer to enemy spawning point and eventually just charge when no more serious threat is present.

Thus they only face cavalry and scattered enemy so they'll better to have long weapons and in this case I suppose Runed Bastard Sword will be better than Ebony Long Sword. Maybe not too much but still. They don't need much ammo with this tactics and usually I use them for very hard encounters when they need burst damage, so I thnik noldor arrows are better then melitine for such application.

So final weapon setup is like this:
1. Runed Bastard Sword;
2. Noldor Composite Bow;
3. Netherworld shield (best Resistance and with high Shield skill coverage should be fine);
4. Noldor Arrows.

Seems like this might be the most solid infantry set up.   I bet a 100 of these sergeants could hold back a thousand in a siege, granted it's late game with a lot of training.

 

[Alavaria]

It's a pretty sweet way to start your kingdom.

Super CKO knights in your archer towers.
Super CKO sergeants set to defend the ladder (+ your usual infantry and the horsemen now on foot)

And then just watch enemies get owned by the powerdraw 10 noldor bow goodness and the powerstrike 10 (pick your weapon here) goodness.

 

[Leonion]

1. F1-F3-F1-F2 - they break formations and form a line;

if you only use this to break formations, then you might as well use "u" instead. 1 less click, and it's less confusing for your troops.

 

[TrashMan]

I find my CKO to be murder machines, even tough it's still not fully trained or enhanced.

My knights are using the Heraldic Kite Shield (simply because of heraldry..I'll probably upgrade to the ancient shield), noble ebony sword, warhammer (editied for thrusting piercing attack, AS IT SHOULD) and pendor greatsword.

My seargents use the excellent old heraldic mail, with a hawkstorm bow, noldor arrows, doom mace and zweihander.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=617972984

 

[sher]

1. F1-F3-F1-F2 - they break formations and form a line;

if you only use this to break formations, then you might as well use "u" instead. 1 less click, and it's less confusing for your troops.

"u" is working not for all groups, this method is universal and there's no drawbacks with it. I use it to prevent dismounting mostly but forming a line is good for prtotecting fire line. If ordered correctly (they need a liitle time to gain speed) cavalry will meet enemy first preventing it from damaging infantry with charge, then infantry will arrive and start to chop.

 

[Leonion]

"u" is working not for all groups, this method is universal and there's no drawbacks with it.

Weird.
Pressing "u" is the first thing I do in most of my battles, and it has always worked.

Also about dismounting... I was recently given excellent advice about preventing it.
You just use F2-F5. This way cavalry will never dismount on their own. Also if their horse get killed but another horses are wandering nearby, they will mount them instead of charging at the enemy in melee.

 

[Dena Pirate]

Is there a way to be able to equip knights with weapons that they can't use when mounted when they (at least in the beginning of the battle) are mounted? I am attempting to create a sort of "dragoon" order that use their steeds to get around the battlefield then dismounts to fire their crossbows. I am not sure if I am insane but it seems like this would be a bit more interesting then just making them horse archers but still let them have a ranged option.

 

[Alavaria]

Is there a way to be able to equip knights with weapons that they can't use when mounted when they (at least in the beginning of the battle) are mounted? I am attempting to create a sort of "dragoon" order that use their steeds to get around the battlefield then dismounts to fire their crossbows. I am not sure if I am insane but it seems like this would be a bit more interesting then just making them horse archers but still let them have a ranged option.

This sequence works:

Remove horse
Equip crossbow on them
Equip horse

As far as interesting, eh... well... that's up to you I guess

 

[Krozzy]

Is there a way to be able to equip knights with weapons that they can't use when mounted when they (at least in the beginning of the battle) are mounted? I am attempting to create a sort of "dragoon" order that use their steeds to get around the battlefield then dismounts to fire their crossbows. I am not sure if I am insane but it seems like this would be a bit more interesting then just making them horse archers but still let them have a ranged option.

I had a similar idea, in the my sergeants had saddle horses with siege xbows, only so that when I am taking only my CKO around, we have very fast map speed. Then someone pointed out that it makes them costs nearly double wages... Still deciding, but I think i'm just going to remove the horse.

 

[Brew]

I had a similar idea, in the my sergeants had saddle horses with siege xbows, only so that when I am taking only my CKO around, we have very fast map speed. Then someone pointed out that it makes them costs nearly double wages... Still deciding, but I think i'm just going to remove the horse.

The horse would make very little difference if any, the level of the troops is more important and cko sergeants are high level
Iirc there is a slight speed bonus for an all cavalry army but it would be very small

 

[T.L.S.]

The horse would make very little difference if any

Something like 40 vs 72 per unit (with max leadership)... no difference at all
Just take some foot KO sergeant (Mortal, Drake, Marinus etc) and some mounted, but not a horse archer (Lion Squire, Rav Spear Merc, Dustrider) and see the difference. They all have same level.

 

[Krozzy]

The horse would make very little difference if any

Something like 40 vs 72 per unit (with max leadership)... no difference at all
Just take some foot KO sergeant (Mortal, Drake, Marinus etc) and some mounted, but not a horse archer (Lion Squire, Rav Spear Merc, Dustrider) and see the difference. They all have same level.

I think he was talking about the map speed, not the wages

 

[T.L.S.]

I think he was talking about the map speed, not the wages

Maybe. Anyway speed problem can be easily solved with 5-6 not lame coursers in inventory.

 

[Krozzy]

I think he was talking about the map speed, not the wages

Maybe. Anyway speed problem can be easily solved with 5-6 not lame coursers in inventory.

Someone made a detailed testing thread for this. Search the whole warband forum. Basically, horse only negate "trade goods", and actually having horses in your inventoory without any trade items actually slows you down.