[TUTORIAL] Custom Knighthood Order

[Gorvex]

Of course, as 63 is the soft limit for attributes, even for your own character in Mount and Blade. Just as 1000 is for weapon proficiencies (only in PoP, 699 otherwise) and 10 for skills. However, you can bypass the former two with savegame editing. And for the attributes, you can also do an export/import of your own character to get more than 63. More than 10 skill points (15 is the hard cap) requires some tweaking (e.g. you can also use TweakMB)

 

[facepoppies]

For some reason, it doesn't actually seem possible to bypass the soft limit for the knights. I've done it with other units using morgh's and the savegame editor. I'm gonna go into the text file and see if there's a number there under the troops listing that I can change from 63 to something else.

 

[Gorvex]

Interesting. I didn't know so far that CKO units are bound to the 63 stat limit and 1000 prof limit. But why would you need higher stats than that? It's already OP :

Spoiler

Just so you can see what I meant, all other troops and NPC-s (including your character) are not restricted to those values when it comes to savegame editing:

Spoiler

Even 3,000 attributes and 10,000 profs aren't a problem

 

[facepoppies]

I just want my custom knighthood troops to be the ultimate power in the land, lol. And honestly now that I've found this limit, I just have to find a way to break it because it bothers me knowing it's there.

 

[Vissy]

Interesting. I didn't know so far that CKO units are bound to the 63 stat limit and 1000 prof limit. But why would you need higher stats than that? It's already OP :

Spoiler

Just so you can see what I meant, all other troops and NPC-s (including your character) are not restricted to those values when it comes to savegame editing:

Spoiler

Even 3,000 attributes and 10,000 profs aren't a problem

just how fast can they shoot arrows at you

 

[Gorvex]

I haven't checked them specifically, but with the same amount of profs on my character, I could deplete a bag of Noldor Arrows with a Sapphire Rune Bow before the first arrow reached the ground

 

[Kentai]

I would give them helmets with cyan hoods, not with the green ones. Cyan is the colour of their capes.

Spoiler

Or if you particularly like faceplate of that green helmet, you could copy/paste cyan vertex colour in OpenBRF. 

That looks absolutely sick. I'll admit that the slight color mismatch with the faceplated helms and the Clarion Call cape was a bit off-putting. I'll try out the cyan hoods (and maybe switch the genders as well since your screenshot made me realize that the females' lithe proportions fit the look that I was gunning for) and fiddle with the OpenBRF just to see.

I was also thinking of downgrading the Noldor Composite Bow to either an Ebon Bow or a Hawkstorm Bow. The NCB, while undoubtedly effective, doesn't look as imposing as the weaker (but bigger) longbows. I like the Ebon Bow's long, thin and brutal design, as well as the fact that it is visually the longest CKO-available bow around, almost as tall as a man. The Hawkstorm Bow, however, is also of comparable size and has this vicious looking recurve that's in line with the greatbows of the unit I'm basing my CKs on.

Glad to see that others share my love of the Clarion Call's armor. I think that set and the female noldor ranger set are the best looking in the game. I'm thinking I'll outfit my sergeants with Clarion Call gear (since I'm guessing it has a lower STR requirement and is the weaker armor) and my knights with the female noldor ranger set (knights and sergeants are female).

 

[ArnulfFloyd]

Noldor female armours not fit with history nerds as me, I prefer heavy mail, full-plate and gothic armours for CKOs

 

[Kentai]

I'm thinking for my Sergeants (which will be infantry):

1. Shadow Wolf Halberd (or some other polearm) for stopping cavalry in field battles.
2. Doom Mace (I don't have it unlocked yet but I think there's a new hammer that's almost as good) for close quarters, sieges, and prisoners.
3. Enhanced Noldor Shield
4. Jarids or Broadhead Throwing Spears for range, breaking shields, and burst damage.

I think that makes them useful in most situations and they'll be cheaper to field thanks to being infantry.

For the Knights (cavalry archers):

1. Noldor Composite Bow or Darkwood Bow (if it's even an option)
2. Noldor Arrows or Darkwood Arrows to match bow
3. Doom Mace (I don't have it unlocked yet but I think there's a new hammer that's almost as good) for close quarters, sieges, and prisoners.
4. Enhanced Noldor Shield

I basically want Clarion Call with prisoner-taking potential.

I'm open to suggestion and look forward to hearing your thoughts

 

[sher]

Halberd should be longer so Sarleon or Empire one, Doom Mace can be replaced by Cavalry Mace NOT Battle Hammer which is too short and slow.

 

[Kentai]

Halberd should be longer so Sarleon or Empire one, Doom Mace can be replaced by Cavalry Mace NOT Battle Hammer which is too short and slow.

Ah good point! I should go longer on the halberd. Is the AI pretty good about not using polearms when a 1h is available in a siege? Cavalry Mace was what I was thinking of since I'm using it myself (still haven't found a Doom Mace lol).

 

[murkamk1]

Excellent! Thank you very much! So if I wanted to edit it in Morgh's and start a new game, I would just edit trp_player_knight and trp_player_sergeant?

No. You have to edit the same troops as above even for a new game: "trp_player_knight_save" (#1165) and "trp_player_sergeant_save" (#1166) respectively. I wasn't sure in it, but now I see that edited stats can't be directly applied to 'trp_player_knight' and 'trp_player_sergeant'. Given this, you probably don't even need to start a training session while editing an already existing savegame's CKO unit...

Is there any way to change the knights items with Morgh?

since morgh edits the txt files I didn't use it instead tried to edit the save file to add the dummy and the save some weapons(I've changed the knights horse on the game) and it didn't work

 

[Kentai]

At what point should I begin enhancing my CKO? Currently my knights are at around 400-420 in their relevant profs and my sergeants are in the 350-400 range (not sure if sergeants are even affected by enhancing the CKO). I've got Leth at 8 trainer thanks to elixirs but still only manage to get a +10 on a random skill every week or two. Do you guys usually stick it out until everythings capped at Leth's prof level or do the diminishing returns when the knights get near his cap make it worthwhile to start investing earlier?

 

[Gorvex]

At what point should I begin enhancing my CKO? Currently my knights are at around 400-420 in their relevant profs and my sergeants are in the 350-400 range (not sure if sergeants are even affected by enhancing the CKO). I've got Leth at 8 trainer thanks to elixirs but still only manage to get a +10 on a random skill every week or two. Do you guys usually stick it out until everythings capped at Leth's prof level or do the diminishing returns when the knights get near his cap make it worthwhile to start investing earlier?

I usually wait with the investment into CKO upgrades until my designated trainer companions have no more attributes and profs to teach for my knights (as sergeants can't be upgraded, so it doesn't matter for them). Knights have higher chances for successful daily trainings, therefore they reach the caps sooner than the sergeants (and sergeants can still be trained afterwards until finished as they can't be upgraded).

 

[Khabal]

Hi all,

I finally managed to create my CKO, but I'm not sure to properly understand how it works; what's the difference between knights & sergeants? Should I sent Leth to train them (awesome stats) or somebody else with higher train skill, although lower stats? Should I go for the best equipment for both K & S? Is there an optim template? For example, should I equip sergeants with 1h+shield+crossbows and knights with pole+1h+shield+throwing?

I use to like a 40%+40%+20% infantery, ranged, mounted units, but it seems in PoP it's just better to go mounted all the way...

Any advice will be really apreciated.

 

[madboy]

Hi all,

I finally managed to create my CKO, but I'm not sure to properly understand how it works; what's the difference between knights & sergeants? Should I sent Leth to train them (awesome stats) or somebody else with higher train skill, although lower stats? Should I go for the best equipment for both K & S? Is there an optim template? For example, should I equip sergeants with 1h+shield+crossbows and knights with pole+1h+shield+throwing?

I use to like a 40%+40%+20% infantery, ranged, mounted units, but it seems in PoP it's just better to go mounted all the way...

Any advice will be really apreciated.

1. Knights - can be upgraded for better stats after training.
2. Sergeant - can't.
3. Best stuff is too expensive unless you need something very specific for a specific job. Good stuff is enough.
4. What do you  need your CKO for ? purpose defines the means..
    In my career I had:
    - bow + lance
    - bow + 1h
    - xbow + 1h
    - xbow + blunt
    - blunt lance + blunt 1h
    - blunt lance + axe
    - javelins x2 + something
    - ....
Some were used in sieges, some not, some only to skirmish against archers, infantry did the rest, horses light, quick or slow, etc.

5. Don't have to go mounted - go as you need/plan/think.
6. Send those trainers who can teach. what do you want to teach them?

 

[Gorvex]

@Khabal:
- Send either Sir Jocelyn or Sir Alistair for the base training. They usually start with 5 or 6 trainer, which allows for the best mix of combat skills and trainer (Trainer skill increases the training speed)
- Then send Diev for some archery training if you need it for your CKO
- Then send Boadice (for throwing) / Frederick (good for assigning AGI skills to him without sacrificing melee power much) or Sara the Fox (can spec her into AGI skills right from the start, but that will be at the cost of her melee/ranged power), depending on your special needs
- Lastly, send Lethaldiran as the top trainer for weapons profs, and archery + horse archery combo if you didn't do so earlier with Diev and Sara. By the time you arrive to think about sending Lethaldiran, you'll have a chance to spend some Dusts of Twilight on your companions to increase his INT and then add those points into his Trainer skill, which helps a lot to fasten the end training process. But it's not needed ofc.

 

[sher]

1H+Shield is the most effective staple combination. Rest 2 slots can be used for ranged option - crossbows (no additional skills needed) for long fights, bows for fast burst damage. Mounted troops _on fastest noldor horses_ will benefit more from lance and throwing weapon, dedicated melee infantry will be better with halberd and throwing.

But you may equip CKO not in most effective way now and fiddle with them thanks to 90% discount.

 

[Khabal]

Thank you all for your answers; as said, I sent Leth for the first training lesson (still waiting him to cime back), but I'll follow your advices for the next ones.

I still haven't upgraded any equipment, thus, I don't use any of them yet.

I have access to Noldor equipment, so probably (if my money gives for that) I'll start with Noldor armour.

So, since I don't use then yet, if I select Noldor armour, then I hire some, will these troops level up? If so, will they keep their stuff? It seems it will take like half a year to have decent equipment so, is it worth them to use this trooos before upgrading their stuff and training them?

 

[Gorvex]

So, since I don't use then yet, if I select Noldor armour, then I hire some, will these troops level up? If so, will they keep their stuff? It seems it will take like half a year to have decent equipment so, is it worth them to use this trooos before upgrading their stuff and training them?

No, you should keep your CKO units stashed away in the garrison until they are battle-ready. When you consider them to be usable is completely up to you though. And it doesn't matter if you inducted (bought) some CKO units early on, their stats and equipment will adept as you equip and train them. It's highly advised to keep the upgrading of CKO knights to the very end of the training process, when your companions can't teach them anymore. But there's always place for improvement if you keep on buying dusts of twilight for your companions.