[TUTORIAL] Custom Knighthood Order
- Thread starter Mad Vader
- Start date
Users who are viewing this thread
DoomDude1
Recruit
Naasir said:The diffenrence between those is explained in this very thread, most likely the first post which is a giant FAQ concerning this topic.
Am I the only one who does not bother with things like best possible knighthood configuration? I use them as customized flavour units that add a little flavour to my kingdom. If I am merely interested in super soldiers I could just as well pick one of the more generic (no offense, dear devs) orders and pump a few 100K of money into them. Those will steamroll anything by then anyway.
Never understood this need for "best possible [whatever]" in SP games.
And yet, the very next comment is about damage. I suppose that people just can't get immersed into a game without thinking about high damage figures and making their own DPS charts... I'm still WAY behind on making my order, but hell, SP games are about immersion, leave the DPS for MMOs.
Oplindenfep
Recruit
I have no idea just what training techniques Lethaldiran, and by extension the Noldor, use, but with just a single 4 week training session, he upgraded my knights to 30 strength, 24 agility, and 70-100 on each weapon proficiency.
Strangely, he did not do nearly so well on the lower, sergeant guys, but still.
Strangely, he did not do nearly so well on the lower, sergeant guys, but still.
Sergeant is only half speed of the knight I believe, after all the training I've been through. You should use one like Jocelyn for the job first because higher training skill means more training proficiency. Lethaldiran got me to 6 PD after 4 times 4 weeks while Adonja with 10 PD and 7 training got me to 10 PD after just 4 weeks.
azenky
Sergeant
Pode said:
The thing is, if you want the CKO to be available asap it might be wise to give them something mediocre at first so you can at least field them fully equipped. It's actually worthwhile to use high-level infantry/archer gear like empire broadswords or composite (long)bows before you upgrade to top tier stuff because you do get that time reduction.
Autocalc only uses their level AFAIK, so unless they're in my personal army it doesn't matter what they're equipped with. I just wait, stockpile the slow production of the chapter house in garrison, and when they're finally fully cooked I have a group already set to go. So my only reason for equipping midlevel gear would be if it was faster or cheaper in total to equip then upgrade versus just equip. Are you saying that's the case? Going from zero to Noldor is slower than from zero to normal to Noldor? If the time and cost is some exponential function of the quality change, then I can see that, but if it's just linear not so much. MadVader, care to enlighten us on your dark magic of cost determination?
Not true since 3.0, autocalc strength is normally determined from equipment and many stats.Pode said:
An exception are autocalc strengths for the CKO troops that are heuristically (or lazily) determined from their weapon proficiencies compared to other orders. So if you manage to increase their WPs to the average of the other orders, they would have the average autocalc strength of the other orders.
So while I was wrong in general, in this specific application I was right to conclude that it doesn't really matter for autocalc what gear your CKO has. They're treated as having average knight gear, but with their WPs instead of average knight WPs.MadVader said:
Returning to the gearing up process question, is it faster or cheaper to go from zero to mid level to high level or just from zero to high in one step?
Your old gear gives you back one third of its cost and time, calculated as a discount for the new gear.
It's always better to upgrade directly to the top gear, but it leaves your order useless for a long time. It's worthwhile to give them some reasonably priced protection and weapons if you are going to use them until you can afford the top stuff, but that was at least the intent behind the design - many may disagree with that.
It's always better to upgrade directly to the top gear, but it leaves your order useless for a long time. It's worthwhile to give them some reasonably priced protection and weapons if you are going to use them until you can afford the top stuff, but that was at least the intent behind the design - many may disagree with that.
And those buggers should keep in mind that MV generally was the nice guy for the 3.6 upgrade.
Means he dropped a lot of awesome and supreme concepts by different contributors to furtherly spicen up equipment acquistion by awesoem means and extraordinaire feats like collecting 100 units of iron, leatherworks and oil and the craftsmen in order to start work.
Hastipaka Punjifiz would have worshipped you, MV.
Means he dropped a lot of awesome and supreme concepts by different contributors to furtherly spicen up equipment acquistion by awesoem means and extraordinaire feats like collecting 100 units of iron, leatherworks and oil and the craftsmen in order to start work.
Hastipaka Punjifiz would have worshipped you, MV.
Awesome MV, thanks for clearing that up. So my plan is to:
- equip whatever final gear they can out the gate,
- get someone with the best combo of trainer and WP to train up their WP for autocalc while they gear up,
- equip whatever final gear that training makes available,
- train for stats and skills to unlock rest of final gear
- equip final gear
- train for WP, then stats and skills while equipping
- put my stockpile from the chapterhouse into my personal army once they finish kitting out
- train to companion limits (WP first)
- apply gold liberally via steward to improve knights
- continue training (mostly for sergeants benefit) as companions level up
Until they finish gearing up, I'll just enjoy the regularly available units.
- equip whatever final gear they can out the gate,
- get someone with the best combo of trainer and WP to train up their WP for autocalc while they gear up,
- equip whatever final gear that training makes available,
- train for stats and skills to unlock rest of final gear
- equip final gear
- train for WP, then stats and skills while equipping
- put my stockpile from the chapterhouse into my personal army once they finish kitting out
- train to companion limits (WP first)
- apply gold liberally via steward to improve knights
- continue training (mostly for sergeants benefit) as companions level up
Until they finish gearing up, I'll just enjoy the regularly available units.
Alavaria
Sergeant Knight at Arms
Actually, could you use something like the enterprise code, to turn:noosers said:
2 Iron + 1 Tools => 1 medium knight armor
2 Iron + 2 Tools + 1 Velvet => 1 High knight armor
(or just equipment sets, with a numerical rating but tiers from low to high to uber) And then your ability to equip knights is based on how many sets you have? (Maybe you get back a set but broken or something when a knight dies ).
A use for Noldor Trade Goods besides just selling
Would be hilarious to get your first few knights in their shiny ubergear and take them out - only for them to get shot in the face by a crossbow and die.
Hastipaka Punjifiz is not pleased, Alavaria.
edit:
Hastipaka Punjifiz developed out of a silly mood regarding a fellow forumite and never made it into PoP 3.6. He´s a silly little joke concerning the bad habit of your average RPG to happily provide the player with quests like collect 10 pieces of or this kill 25 monsters there.
D´Shar Djaha Archers are proud and noble people. Few D´Shar ever master the bow well enough to be permitted into that exalted order. They are true birds of prey – they never miss their aim but shoot true.
Hastipaka Punjifiz
However high the requirements for Djaha Archers are, there are plenty of recruits meeting them in D´Shar lands. The right to assemble and recruit a company of them is a sign of great trust and a huge personal honor. Not many D´Shar lords have acquired that right by Kadan Bahadur Khan, and even less under his father.
So the privilege to raise such a company by his astrologer has caused great anger and displeased many a loyal vassal of the old Khan. However, the astrologer beeing a figure of power and influence and rumored to be a great conjurer and sorcerer who binds demons and djinns alike to do his will, noone dared to openly oject or oppose that decision, not even the new Khan.
Ever since then, Hastipaka Punjifiz has been the leader of that company of Djaha Archers. And ever since the day he was raised to that exalted position, he cursed his thrice damned fate, for ever since that day he was ordered to hunt for his dark masters wishes all over Pendor and far beyond the realms of civilisation.
Exotic ingredients, strange creatures, virgins and suckling babes alike, fish as large as houses, gleaming gemstones, crafts of wonder, Hastipaka Punjifiz found, raided, stole or used whatever means required to get it into his hands – A pirate of the desert, he became. A proud eagle, he once was.
Leader:
Hastipaka Punjifiz
A middle aged once proud son of the desert. Now a desperate and deillusioned servant of his new master, the mysterious Astrologer. Notorious FuManchu Moustache (imporant, used in dialogue)
Djaha Archer clone
Equipment:
itm_pl_450, itm_pop_jatu_noble_armor, itm_pl_486, itm_leather_gloves, itm_heretic_sabre,itm_pop_noldor_bow, itm_pop_noldor_arrows, itm_pop_noldor_arrows
knows_pathfinding_10|knows_spotting_10|knows_tracking_10|
Party Template:
D´Shar Djaha Archers 120
Hastipaka Punjifiz 1
Total 121
Dialogues:
HELLO!
HP:
As-salamu aleikum, Effendi!
Player:
Wa-aleikum as-salam, stranger.
HP:
My name is Hastipaka Punjifiz, son of Berbul, and leader of these Djaha archers. I shoot arrows since I could ever draw a bow and never missed my aim since I my beard began to grow.
I´ve travelled many countries, visited strange places, collected rare things of beauty in Pendor and the far lands beyond the see, but never ever have I seen a Dragon.
I´ve seen elephants, great grey beasts of burden. Fish larger than the biggest ship which sails the sea. I´ve met the kraken and seen fish flying like a bird! I´ve pulled teeth out of tigers, prised gemstones off heathen idols in the deep jungles which lay to the east. I climbed huge mountains to pick a rare flower at a waning moon, I´ve eaten spicy snakes and milked them for their venom, but never, ever have I seen or heard about a Dragon.
And yet, my master sent me to collect a Tear of such a mythical creature! Thrice cursed I am, afflicted by djinns, by Vata!
Player:
Hear, hear. You travelled wide and far and never heard of Dragontears? You should have used your wits, not boots, Hastipaka Panjifiz! Praise Vata you met {name} today! Tears of the Dragon are rare things of beauty – they are blue gemstomes of almost unlimited power!
HP:
May Indar strike me down! You´ve heard about them?
Player:
Noone knows their true origin. They look organic, yet they´re as cold and lifeless as a crystal. Wise men claim the Noldor of Old found them by means of magic, cut and bewitched them. Fools claim they grew like cabbage on a field and Noldor Maidens sang a song of growth and pleasure till they were ripe to harvest.
HP:
My beard! You are a learned man indeed! I´d immediately sell myself and all my men for such a gem! I must please my master, once again. Thrice cursed I am, by Vata
Player:
#1
Well, Hastipaka Panjifiz. Praise the day! I happen to have such a gem. And I´d exchange it for your services as you seem to be a formidable force I´ve heard of the proud sons of the desert before and seen them shoot their arrows straight and true. I could well use your company....
#2
Travel to Laria, Hasitpaka Panjifiz. Behind it lies a dark forest and west of it he Jatu Plains. You may find some Noldor there. Massa al nuur, Hastipaka Punjifiz!
HELLO AGAIN!
#1
Sabaah al nuur, {name}! Have you heard any news about a Dragontear?
WHAT TASK?
#1
Ahlan wa sahlan, {name}. Nothing I haven´t done before.
WHERE?
#1
Vata! Thrice damned I am indeed! There live djinns!
#2
Indar knows I am afflicted by djinns! That area is cursed!
OK!
#1
The master calls, I run. Thrice cursed I am!
#2
Thrice cursed I am! The master must not wait! Quickly! Off we are.
GOODBYE!
HP:
We served our time {name}, and we served you well, by Vata! Now hand me over that Dragontear of yours so I may haste back to my master and hunt for his next wish. Thrice cursed I am for such a fate!
Player:
May both Indar and Vata guide your steps, Hastapaki Punjifiz! Farewell and take good care of your precious treasure. Now hurry back and please your master, thrice cursed you are indeed.
Hastipaka Punjifiz
However high the requirements for Djaha Archers are, there are plenty of recruits meeting them in D´Shar lands. The right to assemble and recruit a company of them is a sign of great trust and a huge personal honor. Not many D´Shar lords have acquired that right by Kadan Bahadur Khan, and even less under his father.
So the privilege to raise such a company by his astrologer has caused great anger and displeased many a loyal vassal of the old Khan. However, the astrologer beeing a figure of power and influence and rumored to be a great conjurer and sorcerer who binds demons and djinns alike to do his will, noone dared to openly oject or oppose that decision, not even the new Khan.
Ever since then, Hastipaka Punjifiz has been the leader of that company of Djaha Archers. And ever since the day he was raised to that exalted position, he cursed his thrice damned fate, for ever since that day he was ordered to hunt for his dark masters wishes all over Pendor and far beyond the realms of civilisation.
Exotic ingredients, strange creatures, virgins and suckling babes alike, fish as large as houses, gleaming gemstones, crafts of wonder, Hastipaka Punjifiz found, raided, stole or used whatever means required to get it into his hands – A pirate of the desert, he became. A proud eagle, he once was.
Leader:
Hastipaka Punjifiz
A middle aged once proud son of the desert. Now a desperate and deillusioned servant of his new master, the mysterious Astrologer. Notorious FuManchu Moustache (imporant, used in dialogue)
Djaha Archer clone
Equipment:
itm_pl_450, itm_pop_jatu_noble_armor, itm_pl_486, itm_leather_gloves, itm_heretic_sabre,itm_pop_noldor_bow, itm_pop_noldor_arrows, itm_pop_noldor_arrows
knows_pathfinding_10|knows_spotting_10|knows_tracking_10|
Party Template:
D´Shar Djaha Archers 120
Hastipaka Punjifiz 1
Total 121
Dialogues:
HELLO!
HP:
As-salamu aleikum, Effendi!
Player:
Wa-aleikum as-salam, stranger.
HP:
My name is Hastipaka Punjifiz, son of Berbul, and leader of these Djaha archers. I shoot arrows since I could ever draw a bow and never missed my aim since I my beard began to grow.
I´ve travelled many countries, visited strange places, collected rare things of beauty in Pendor and the far lands beyond the see, but never ever have I seen a Dragon.
I´ve seen elephants, great grey beasts of burden. Fish larger than the biggest ship which sails the sea. I´ve met the kraken and seen fish flying like a bird! I´ve pulled teeth out of tigers, prised gemstones off heathen idols in the deep jungles which lay to the east. I climbed huge mountains to pick a rare flower at a waning moon, I´ve eaten spicy snakes and milked them for their venom, but never, ever have I seen or heard about a Dragon.
And yet, my master sent me to collect a Tear of such a mythical creature! Thrice cursed I am, afflicted by djinns, by Vata!
Player:
Hear, hear. You travelled wide and far and never heard of Dragontears? You should have used your wits, not boots, Hastipaka Panjifiz! Praise Vata you met {name} today! Tears of the Dragon are rare things of beauty – they are blue gemstomes of almost unlimited power!
HP:
May Indar strike me down! You´ve heard about them?
Player:
Noone knows their true origin. They look organic, yet they´re as cold and lifeless as a crystal. Wise men claim the Noldor of Old found them by means of magic, cut and bewitched them. Fools claim they grew like cabbage on a field and Noldor Maidens sang a song of growth and pleasure till they were ripe to harvest.
HP:
My beard! You are a learned man indeed! I´d immediately sell myself and all my men for such a gem! I must please my master, once again. Thrice cursed I am, by Vata
Player:
#1
Well, Hastipaka Panjifiz. Praise the day! I happen to have such a gem. And I´d exchange it for your services as you seem to be a formidable force I´ve heard of the proud sons of the desert before and seen them shoot their arrows straight and true. I could well use your company....
#2
Travel to Laria, Hasitpaka Panjifiz. Behind it lies a dark forest and west of it he Jatu Plains. You may find some Noldor there. Massa al nuur, Hastipaka Punjifiz!
HELLO AGAIN!
#1
Sabaah al nuur, {name}! Have you heard any news about a Dragontear?
WHAT TASK?
#1
Ahlan wa sahlan, {name}. Nothing I haven´t done before.
WHERE?
#1
Vata! Thrice damned I am indeed! There live djinns!
#2
Indar knows I am afflicted by djinns! That area is cursed!
OK!
#1
The master calls, I run. Thrice cursed I am!
#2
Thrice cursed I am! The master must not wait! Quickly! Off we are.
GOODBYE!
HP:
We served our time {name}, and we served you well, by Vata! Now hand me over that Dragontear of yours so I may haste back to my master and hunt for his next wish. Thrice cursed I am for such a fate!
Player:
May both Indar and Vata guide your steps, Hastapaki Punjifiz! Farewell and take good care of your precious treasure. Now hurry back and please your master, thrice cursed you are indeed.
edit:
Hastipaka Punjifiz developed out of a silly mood regarding a fellow forumite and never made it into PoP 3.6. He´s a silly little joke concerning the bad habit of your average RPG to happily provide the player with quests like collect 10 pieces of or this kill 25 monsters there.
All respect to both the noble and unfortunate HP and the attitude towards shopping quests that inspired him, but I like the idea of new enterprise types. Instead of abstracting all the smithy work to make the new gear as just apply a big chunk of money and wait, you can put it in game as building up the actual infrastructure and gear itself. Infrastructure that can be attacked/lost/sequestered, and that displaces with the usual moneymaking enterprises so you force a tradeoff between having your own smiths do the work or paying other people's as currently done.
Have the new enterprises take in *epic* quantities of tools, iron, leather, flax, grain, cloth, and more normal quantities of Noldor trade goods and produce singles of new item types: upgrade tokens. Make new steward dialog options similar to Finneas' elixir dialogue, where if you have the right combination of those tokens you can equip certain CKO items immediately. Weapons need steel tokens, leather armors leather, metal armors steel and leather (padding underneath), bows need flax (for the strings. I know, but it's the least unrelated PoP trade good I can think of), horses need grain (again, least unrelated), cloth (for the draped ones) and steel (for shoes and for the armored ones), and Noldor gear needs the usual as well a Noldor token.
Have the new enterprises take in *epic* quantities of tools, iron, leather, flax, grain, cloth, and more normal quantities of Noldor trade goods and produce singles of new item types: upgrade tokens. Make new steward dialog options similar to Finneas' elixir dialogue, where if you have the right combination of those tokens you can equip certain CKO items immediately. Weapons need steel tokens, leather armors leather, metal armors steel and leather (padding underneath), bows need flax (for the strings. I know, but it's the least unrelated PoP trade good I can think of), horses need grain (again, least unrelated), cloth (for the draped ones) and steel (for shoes and for the armored ones), and Noldor gear needs the usual as well a Noldor token.
Alavaria
Sergeant Knight at Arms
Ahaha, the Empire (who I'm a vassal in) lost Ethos, tried to take it back, got chased off. I and my army took it and since I had a bunch of friends supporting me to get it, I got it.
And now time to start playing with the CKO. Even at the starting 18 STR, there's such a dizzying array of armor, I can't wait until Sigismund gets them trained up to 30 STR to see what they can use !!
Any moment now, the Dhar will of course come with a massive army and try to take it away from me, but the joke's on them I've already started stacking the garrison with elite troops
Hehe, got the Noldor to teach me some secrets, now to keep my CKO safely in the oven until they come out fresh and ready to steamroll.
And now time to start playing with the CKO. Even at the starting 18 STR, there's such a dizzying array of armor, I can't wait until Sigismund gets them trained up to 30 STR to see what they can use !!
Any moment now, the Dhar will of course come with a massive army and try to take it away from me, but the joke's on them I've already started stacking the garrison with elite troops
Hehe, got the Noldor to teach me some secrets, now to keep my CKO safely in the oven until they come out fresh and ready to steamroll.
@Pode:
That would require - first and foremost - a detailed popluation simulation for the whole of Pendor off which you may base and scale the whole economy. That´s totally offtopic and doesn´t belong here, you should start that discussion in the suggestions thread.
That would require - first and foremost - a detailed popluation simulation for the whole of Pendor off which you may base and scale the whole economy. That´s totally offtopic and doesn´t belong here, you should start that discussion in the suggestions thread.
Back on topic then.
How does training work? MV's said there's some randomness involved, but does the expected benefit from 4 one week sessions with the same tutor equal the expected benefit from one 4 week session? Does it just calculate the improvement every week?
How does training work? MV's said there's some randomness involved, but does the expected benefit from 4 one week sessions with the same tutor equal the expected benefit from one 4 week session? Does it just calculate the improvement every week?
I've said it before on this forum: Caution, engineer at play. There's a reason they used to call me Data around here.MadVader said:You'll just keep pinging away these questions about inner mechanics and formulas, right?
Besides, asking distracts me from my continuing work on the Tome of All Damage.
