Troop Trees

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bili007

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Hello! First of i would like to thank you all for making a mod with so much new content and higher difficulty! Minor factions are great, love that! Didnt really get to the economic aspect of the mod but judging from the posts in the forum its very well made. Love the "impossible to beat in first 2 days" bandits. Ofc some other mods offer that to, but most of them have some wierd mistakes made to basic gameplay that ruin the whole experience. Not here cuzz you used floris as base i guess (which is the rival for best mod with this mod in my opinion).

My problem about this mod is ofc subjective (as usual) :grin: Troop trees... No units are not to strong, no its not to big or to small, and no its not to much colors :razz: Problem is it makes very little sence, direction and lacks a "soldiers preference" to put it in these words. For example, same unit transforms from a 2 handed to 1 handed to pike soldier on the same path, some get added or removed  ranged weapons (that they are master of in one lvl) to much trowing weapons (out of my head 70% of units have them), almost no horse archers,.. Rhodok pike top tier has only a 320 long pike, no close range weapon or other weapon (thou that one i can understandin a way). It makes the game much less tactical and more brute confuzed force. I must say i like floris troop tree a lot more (not so much the units per se, but the method the whole tree is made) it has direction, point. And it should be more focused by faction. Thats the whole point of factions, excel at a certain part of the battle or be just more general but less strong.  But its your work and your idea, maybe you see it diferent.

So my question would be is there a simple way to transfer troop trees from other mods and add minor factions troop trees(lets say from floris-it would need tweeking ofc but ok) to this mod, or remaking the whole troop tree is the only way?

I share the opinion on troop trees that is well writen here, so i dont make to big of a post. Read it pls it makes sence and say what you think :wink:
https://www.reddit.com/r/mountandblade/comments/4v1kdd/lets_talk_about_troop_trees/

Ps. this is the ONLY thing that i dislike about this mod, so once again GREAT JOB! hope noone takes this the wrong way**
 
bili007 said:
My problem about this mod is ofc subjective (as usual) :grin: Troop trees... No units are not to strong, no its not to big or to small, and no its not to much colors :razz: Problem is it makes very little sence, direction and lacks a "soldiers preference" to put it in these words. For example, same unit transforms from a 2 handed to 1 handed to pike soldier on the same path, some get added or removed  ranged weapons (that they are master of in one lvl) to much trowing weapons (out of my head 70% of units have them), almost no horse archers,.. Rhodok pike top tier has only a 320 long pike, no close range weapon or other weapon (thou that one i can understandin a way). It makes the game much less tactical and more brute confuzed force. I must say i like floris troop tree a lot more (not so much the units per se, but the method the whole tree is made) it has direction, point. And it should be more focused by faction. Thats the whole point of factions, excel at a certain part of the battle or be just more general but less strong.  But its your work and your idea, maybe you see it diferent.

Agreed. This has been one of my biggest issues with this mod since I downloaded it last year. The worst offender, in my opinion, is Swadia, though all of the factions do it to some degree. (Lookin' at you, Khergit Warlord:evil:) I mean, the tree is a tangled mess when you look it in the menu. You've got pikemen, that jump all the way to the other side of the troop tree to promote to Yeomen of the Guard (which confuses the heck out of me, btw), swordfighters and defenders that have identical promotion options, only for both choices to end up as greatswords anyway, and a choice between blade and blunt cavalry that end up being blade super-cavalry in the end regardless. The Vaegirs are pretty much the only faction that manage to somewhat avoid this, though the fact that you can always cross-promote your guys also feels kind of silly. It kind of feels like an illusion of choice, you know?

However, I also agree with the op in that this isn't my mod, and the creators may see it differently. I still like most of what the mod has right now, and want to like it even more in the future. It's just that the current troop trees are kind of frustrating.
 
Yeah this is a major issue. Equipment and troops need a major rebalanced. Fortunately, this is relatively easy to do yourself, if a bit time consuming. I used Morgh's text editor and tweak mb for most of the changes.

My overarching goals with this:

1. Make each faction unique in some small way. IE, swadians have better main weapon proficiency per lvl relative to other factions, Saranids move faster, nords have better shield skill, etc.

2. Each faction gets a full set of Unique lines. Each troop line has its own role. I made clearer the differences between, say, light, heavy, two hand, pike, and  polearm infantry. The mod was originally designed so that each faction had 1 t8, 4 t7, and 6 t5 troops to choose from. I added troops where needed (ie: saranids lack a 4th t7, so I added a beefed up elephant rider), and rebalanced troops to fit certain roles (ie, new infantry class of light infantry, lighter but much faster than other infantry, like the saranid assasin).

3. Certain troop types and weapons no longer suck outright (see: any polearm not listed as a pike, most two handed weapons). This was rebalanced (two hand weapons users were made a bit faster than sword and shield types, and do more damage, polearms also. Troops stats were rebalanced (tweak mb offers stats up to 15, so this gave the opportunity to give greater discrepancies in stats between t6 and t8 troops, and between different factions troops that filled the same role.

4. Equipment was rebalanced to offer meaningful choice instead of always going for a certain faction's weps or armor or troop choice. (Ie: bows were rebalanced, such that non horse bows are more powerful, swad bows shoot faster, but vaiger bows  hit harder, khergit bows more accurate.)

5. I also added the option for each faction to  upgrade their infantry to prison/palace guards. These infantry, while weaker than main line t6/7 infantry, allow certain factions (cough khergits cough) to not always automatically lose sieges to other nations based on the problem of having extremely weak infantry.


Another thing I wanted to do but havnt quite gotten to is to further incentivize using one faction's troops, instead of the best lines from each faction. More of a role play deal. Morale bonus/penalty isnt cutting it, so I was thinking of havign a rep bonus with a faction when you only have that faction's troops and mercs, or something like that. Havnt quite figured it out.

All of this can be accomplished with the editors I listed, but it is a tedious process and can take several hours to get through the entire troop list.
 
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