Troop trees 2018 vs 2019

[MountAndMemeButterlord]

yes -2019

I wonder why they look different in that image than, the screenshot Piconi posted shows that at least in MP they still have the ugly Fian design. I hope that they go with the one in the picture you posted, it looks a lot more like a Celt (albeit one that has done a lot of trading with Romans/Byzantines but that's realistic).

 

[CKyHC]

player armor in MP is different from regular units

 

[MountAndMemeButterlord]

player armor in MP is different from regular units

Huh, why did they do this? Balance? I can live with the MP models being uglier than SP.

 

[Piconi]

Well i prefer the singleplayer one,looks more believable, and its good its for the single player. But what about that multiplayer one being different, why did they do it, is that armor even going to be in the singleplayer?
BTW it doesent look Battanian, it looks like dwarvish paladin armor from "The Hobbit: battle of the five armies"

隐藏

 

[CKyHC]

Well i prefer the singleplayer one,looks more believable, and its good its for the single player. But what about that multiplayer one being different, why did they do it, is that armor even going to be in the singleplayer?
BTW it doesent look Battanian, it looks like dwarvish paladin armor from "The Hobbit: battle of the five armies"

隐藏

of course it will be
here she is

 

[MountAndMemeButterlord]

Dear lord. It wouldn't be as hideous without that extra layer of scale and leather, they even had to put them on their hands...

 

[JuanNieve]

I think the devs should increase the length of the menavlion, even the heavy version doesn't have enough length for a pike weapon.

Also, I think that while the pikemen are at rest they should hold the pike in this way.

Maybe, they can add the perk system of the multiplayer to the single player. Could be interesting to have a vlandian sergeant with spear and a pavise shield

 

[Terco_Viejo]

I think the devs should increase the length of the menavlion, even the heavy version doesn't have enough length for a pike weapon.

Also, I think that while the pikemen are at rest they should hold the pike in this way.

Maybe, they can add the perk system of the multiplayer to the single player. Could be interesting to have a vlandian sergeant with spear and a pavise shield

Personally, I would look for a "historical" balance. I would not refer to the original menavlion unit as such but as it would be using a "kontos" pike as its main weapon; the proper name I think could be Imperial Kontarion. These would be our imperial pike carriers. On the other hand the most suitable menavlion unit should be more armored (with lamellar armor) carrying teardrop shield; Imperial Menavliaton.



My opinion (one of many):
Therefore legionaries' units should not carry any spears, only throwable javelins (pila). Branch of swords and shields would flow into Imperial Legionnaire. Therefore the branch of spears would flow into Imperial Menavlion.

Legionary= Shield+sword+pilum
Kontarion= Pike+sword
Menavliaton= Menavlion+shield+ (mace/1 hand axe)

 

[FBohler]

More options isn't always the best way to go.

In some cases reducing the options make the product easier to understand.

This is the case with restaurants with big menus, you end up confused rather than interested.

 

[JuanNieve]

隐藏

I think the devs should increase the length of the menavlion, even the heavy version doesn't have enough length for a pike weapon.

Also, I think that while the pikemen are at rest they should hold the pike in this way.

Maybe, they can add the perk system of the multiplayer to the single player. Could be interesting to have a vlandian sergeant with spear and a pavise shield

Personally, I would look for a "historical" balance. I would not refer to the original menavlion unit as such but as it would be using a "kontos" pike as its main weapon; the proper name I think could be Imperial Kontarion. These would be our imperial pike carriers. On the other hand the most suitable menavlion unit should be more armored (with lamellar armor) carrying teardrop shield; Imperial Menavliaton.



My opinion (one of many):
Therefore legionaries' units should not carry any spears, only throwable javelins (pila). Branch of swords and shields would flow into Imperial Legionnaire. Therefore the branch of spears would flow into Imperial Menavlion.

Legionary= Shield+sword+pilum
Kontarion= Pike+sword
Menavliaton= Menavlion+shield+ (mace/1 hand axe)

I like your ideas , although i would like there to be at least one more tier of pikemen troop. Also, following the game's lore the legionaries should be in a separate troop tree. Because, I remember that in several dialogues they said that the legion system had already been abandoned. Maybe they could be together with the cataphract and palatine guards.

 

[DanAngleland]

I think the devs should increase the length of the menavlion, even the heavy version doesn't have enough length for a pike weapon.

Why do you see it as a really big pike though? It's mention in Bannerlord is the first I've heard of it, but according to wikipedia it was between 2.7 and 3.6 metres long- that's an upper limit of just under 12 feet. It was described as being specifically for use against cavalry, so it was obviously long enough for that task, but the models in your image seem to be at least 15 foot. Additionally, the Bannerlord menavlion is described as being used for chopping at enemies as well as stabbing, which doesn't suggest a very long polearm but more something to the lower end of the wiki description, i.e. about 9 feet. Enough to keep a horseman at bay, but also not cumbersome, so that it can be swiftly maneouvered in the hands and used in slashing strokes.

So the Bannerlord description of the weapon, regardless of the historical reality, is of a spear of modest length with a spearhead useful for both slashing and stabbing. That alone doesn't suggest it is supposed to be a 'pike'. What's more, if wikipedia is to be trusted then the real thing was not more than 12 feet and could be as low as 9. It was also preferably made of whole oak or cornel (dogwood) saplings for extra strength, suggesting stoutness was a priority. The blade was apparently about half a metre long; as far as I know that gives it more in common with other spears designed for chopping as well as thrusting. To me, it sounds like the dimensions and weight have more in common with a late medieval partisan than a pike. Perhaps the menavlion was somewhere between the two in terms of size and purpose.

That's not to say I necessarily disagree with big pikes in Bannerlord (though I think having 'proper' pikes and proper, effective pike usage would require a great improvement and rethink of how the AI uses polearms and of how cavalry reacts to polearm infantry; i.e. not just charging it), but I don't think the menavlion is meant to be the weapon that you are thinking of.

 

[vota dc]

If they fix Spears (reverse couched damage and you get hurt if you run toward a Spear) a very long pike would be overpowered because no corpse physics; all cavalry dead and zero infantry damage.

 

[DanAngleland]

It also raises questions of what the next step would be, if pikes were so deadly against cavalry charges- the natural counter to pikes would be infantry (and archers if the pikemen had no shields), but would it be possible for the pikemen to block in all four directions with the pike (that would seem silly and make them OP)? If not and they wanted to change to swords, would that make them drop the pike or would they get to put it in their magic pocket on their backs? Again, this would feel daft and seem unfair.

This also brings to my mind the question of if the AI will ever use the menavlion infantry in the way their description suggests; staying behind the legionaries but coming forward to defend against enemy cavalry. Sadly, I expect not.

 

[JuanNieve]

隐藏

I think the devs should increase the length of the menavlion, even the heavy version doesn't have enough length for a pike weapon.

Why do you see it as a really big pike though? It's mention in Bannerlord is the first I've heard of it, but according to wikipedia it was between 2.7 and 3.6 metres long- that's an upper limit of just under 12 feet. It was described as being specifically for use against cavalry, so it was obviously long enough for that task, but the models in your image seem to be at least 15 foot. Additionally, the Bannerlord menavlion is described as being used for chopping at enemies as well as stabbing, which doesn't suggest a very long polearm but more something to the lower end of the wiki description, i.e. about 9 feet. Enough to keep a horseman at bay, but also not cumbersome, so that it can be swiftly maneouvered in the hands and used in slashing strokes.

So the Bannerlord description of the weapon, regardless of the historical reality, is of a spear of modest length with a spearhead useful for both slashing and stabbing. That alone doesn't suggest it is supposed to be a 'pike'. What's more, if wikipedia is to be trusted then the real thing was not more than 12 feet and could be as low as 9. It was also preferably made of whole oak or cornel (dogwood) saplings for extra strength, suggesting stoutness was a priority. The blade was apparently about half a metre long; as far as I know that gives it more in common with other spears designed for chopping as well as thrusting. To me, it sounds like the dimensions and weight have more in common with a late medieval partisan than a pike. Perhaps the menavlion was somewhere between the two in terms of size and purpose.

That's not to say I necessarily disagree with big pikes in Bannerlord (though I think having 'proper' pikes and proper, effective pike usage would require a great improvement and rethink of how the AI uses polearms and of how cavalry reacts to polearm infantry; i.e. not just charging it), but I don't think the menavlion is meant to be the weapon that you are thinking of.

I agree with Terco_Viejo and the Kontarion could be the pikemen troop and the Menavlion a heavy spearmen infantry. Also, i see some gameplays and i like how the Menavliaton works as a polearm .

隐藏

隐藏

I think pike weapon's should be at least have same or more that the length of the longest cavalry lance.I think it is the kontos lance or the heavy westerm lance.

Pike's should onlye have two directional attacks upper and down, no lateral attacks. Maybe, they could remove the weapon block and the right click would be used to activate the Brace damage which could be used while moving or when the soldier is stopped.
Also, i hope those polearm perk's that push you when your block the lance atack and push when you recieve atack, would make the pikemen phalanx possible 

 

[Terco_Viejo]

More options isn't always the best way to go.

In some cases reducing the options make the product easier to understand.

This is the case with restaurants with big menus, you end up confused rather than interested.

You've read "historical" and you've gotten nervous, haven't you? In the variety is the spice; my friend. 

---

I and several Beta participants gave feedback about the pikes. In the case of being implemented, it is necessary that the "couch" is introduced.

 

[LeChat]

Shouldn't the pike be "planted" in the floor ?

 

[MountAndMemeButterlord]

More options isn't always the best way to go.

In some cases reducing the options make the product easier to understand.

This is the case with restaurants with big menus, you end up confused rather than interested.

You've read "historical" and you've gotten nervous, haven't you? In the variety is the spice; my friend. 

---

I and several Beta participants gave feedback about the pikes. In the case of being implemented, it is necessary that the "couch" is introduced.

Teach the AI how to do this and suddenly SP dynamics are a bit more interesting. I always thought regular spear men should be able to do this too though.

 

[Terco_Viejo]

The possibility of couched pike should only be feasible if the reduced movement is penalised. Only for static anti cavalry charges.

For infantry combat I would like to see this implemented (the manavlion works wrong in the beta; seems to employ a long halberd/axe):

 

[FBohler]

You've read "historical" and you've gotten nervous, haven't you? In the variety is the spice; my friend. 

I start drooling and shaking as soon as the "H" and "R" words pop in these forums 



Braced spears for footmen is a must, cavalry seems as OP as it was in WB.

 

[JuanNieve]

The possibility of couched pike should only be feasible if the reduced movement is penalised. Only for static anti cavalry charges.

For infantry combat I would like to see this implemented (the manavlion works wrong in the beta; seems to employ a long halberd/axe):

Well that looks very cool. Although, I don't think the pikes are going to work in the skirmish mode of 6 vs 6, maybe in battles with a lot of players or in the campaign.

For the spear and shield the "couch" could be like this:

隐藏

It would be great if they can add more animations for our troops. So the battles could feel more immersive 

隐藏

Also Vladian Knights looks very cool, but i hope the devs adds more decorative for the warhorse armor

隐藏