'Troop Tree Thread' (Triple T) *Feudal Japanese Troop Tree Complete*

[Gnostic_Monk]

Hello,

Welcome to this thread. I want to thank you in advance for your interest. Let me begin by telling you the full story. About 4-5 months ago I started attempting to create a mod. I am not a programmer by trade or by interest really. I know a few things here but by no means am I competent at creating mods. As a result of my absolute lack of skills I had to stop development. I did master creating new troops in Morgph's Editor. One of the lasting features of this attempt is that I've never stopped conceptualizing and developing troop trees. In fact it's to the point now of being an armchair research project for me.

I've created several troop trees and am still creating more. Most of them are historical and based on one or several well documented militaries from the Classical to the High Medieval periods. I am also working on troop tree which also allow role-players to maximize game features to their fullest. I prefer to make troop trees a mix between comprehensive historical specificity and imaginative strategic amalgamation. In other words I don't want to make 6 slightly different troop trees for every single sub-faction in a period specific mod. I'd much rather make a wide variety of troop trees using strategic/cultural blocks as it's basis.

I'm to the stage where I'm actually transitioning many of the proposed the troop trees' concepts and research that I've done onto unit flow charts. I'm also creating a supplemental guide which will provide more information on the units and strategies as I continue to work on troop trees. Below I will provide a list of the troop trees that are completed,currently being worked on and ones that I'm planning to create. I will organize them in the order you vote me to work on and work on those. Message me on here if you're interested in any or all of them. Please note that there are trees and there are alternate trees. The alternate trees are troop trees that are similar to the main tree in terms history, tactics and units but focus on a different aspect of that strategy.

1. Gaulish/Celtic Tree- This tree is based off the native, pre-Romanized Britons/Celts/Guals all the way to the semi-Germanized kingdoms of Scotland, Ireland and Wales. Troop tree completed
2. Persian Empire Tree- This tree will be based on the Achaemedian/Parthian/Sassanian Persians. Troop tree completed.
3. Scandinavian Viking Tree- This one is pretty self-explanatory. Heavy Danish, Norwegian and Finnish influence. Research is in progress for this tree. I have some done in relation to the Saxons.
4. Romanized Germanic Tree- The basis for this tree will be Romanized, England conquering, Germanic tribes such as the Franks, Normans and Saxons. This troop tree is complete!
5. Macedonian/Greek Tree- This tree is based off of the Macedonian army of Alexander the Great as well as some of the better known Greek City States. It's not very pretty lookin' and it was a hellish grind but it's complete.
6. Fuedal Japanese Troop Tree- This tree has katana weilding Samurais 'nuff said. I need to do more research on this style of war. I know a little from history classes in school but not enough to make a full tree at the moment.
7. Arabic Central African Tree- This tree will be based on the more commerce oriented cultures of the Songhai/Mali/Ethiopian empires of western and central Africa during the middle ages. I know very little about this continent beyond north Africa so I need to do tons of research on this.
8. Non-Romanized Germanic Tree- This is based off of eastern European, Italy conquering, Germanic tribes which were displaced by Hunnic or Scandinavian invasions such as the Goths, Lombards and the Vandals. It also includes Norse inspiration from the Kievian Rus and Varangians. Research in progress.
9. Byzantine Theme Tree- The main inspiration for this tree is the military reforms of the Byzantine Empire brought on by the loss of Egypt and the Middle East which ended it's identity as the Eastern Roman Empire and created a separate political entity. Research in progress.
   • Late Roman Army Tree- This will be based of the Roman Army after the Diocletian Reforms. There is also inspiration from the army of the Eastern Roman Empire prior to the loss of Egypt and the Near East. Mostly similar to the Roman Manipular system but will include more light infantry and heavy cavalry options. Research in progress.
   • Roman Manipular Tree- This tree will include the system which made Rome a superpower in the Classical period. Lots of heavy infantry in this one. Research in progress.
10. Ancient Egyptian/Mesopotamian Troop Tree- This troop tree will be based on the first great empires of the western world. the Egyptians, Babylonians and Assyrians. Basically anyone and everyone who took joy ride on a chariot around Jerusalem prior to the Persian conquest of Babylon. I've done some research for this tree while working on the Persian tree but decided to separate it because there is a distinct difference in strategy
11. and time period so I need to do more investigation.
12. Manhunter Tree- In progress
13. Early-Mid Ottoman Tree- This tree is based on the army of Ottoman Turks from the gradual conquest of the Anatolian peninsula all the way to fall of Istanbul (Istanbul was Constantinople) and then some! There is also going to be some influence from Muslim Arabia and Egypt. Research is in progress.
14. Hungarian Black Army Tree- The origin of this troop tree is based on the Italian Condottieri of the late middle ages and into the Renaissance. These mercenaries eventually made their way to Bohemia and eventually into the Hungarian army which, after several reforms, became Hungary's standing army and was the second professional standing army in Europe after the fall of Rome. The first being the French Compagnies d' Ordonannce. Research in progress.
15. French Compagnies d' Orrdonannce Tree- This tree is based on the standing army created by the French Ancien Regime during the mid-high Middle Ages. This is the tree for people who enjoy heavily armored knights making valiant charges against those "English dogs" and non-believers of the true faith. Research is in progress on this tree.
16. Gupta Dynasty India Troop Tree- This tree will focus on the Gupta Dynasty of India but will include other influences from the long and fabled history of Indian warfare. Some research has be done in relation to the Persians but I need to do more.
17. Scythian/Hunnic/Mongolian Troop Tree- Do you enjoy riding your horse over great distances to scare the **** out of civilized Chinese and western empires with your bows and bad attitude? Then this tree is for you! Needs more research.
18. Qin/Han Dynasty Chinese Troop Tree- I've kind of wanted to do a Chinese troop tree for awhile. I'm going to base this tree off of the first Imperial Dynasty of China. The Qin Dynasty was the first dynasty in Chinese history to unite all of the Chinese Kingdoms into a cohesive political structure. Of course you already knew that and so does everyone who took a 6th grade ancient history class. That's the extent of my research and knowledge on this troop tree.
19. Native American Troop Tree- Do I really need to explain this one? This tree will include an amalgamation of different Native American tribes' fighting styles. It will be a mix of pre/post-colonisation units which means there will be some cavalry. Cavalry will be one of the few things which separate it from the Meso-American tree because Aztecs weren't really able to integrate horses into their native martial traditions before thier culture was destoyed. The Native Americans of North America on the other hand had a good century of integrating the horse into their warfare before nearly being destroyed by pioneers. I need to do research for this tree.
    • Meso-American Troop Tree- Does watching a human sacrifice after a drunken brawl at a brutal sporting event sound fun to you? If you said yes then this tree is right up your alley! What!? This isn't a troop tree based on the 1950's in the southern United States? It's a troop tree based on the South Americans such as the Incas and Aztecs!? There's a difference I guess? Could have fooled me nowadays! Anyway I need to do more research on this tree.
20. Caravan/Peasant Tree- Complete

The pictures included in these troop trees are not my own and I claim no right to ownership of them. I just grabbed them in a frenzy off of the Google image search.

I would also like to thank Eärendil the Mariner for his support and guidance.

Spoiler: Gaulish/Celtic/Scottish Troop Tree

Spoiler: Persian Troop Tree

Spoiler: Frankish/Saxon/Norman Troop Tree

Spoiler: Macedonian Greek Troop Tree

Spoiler: Norse Troop Tree

Spoiler: Feudal Japanese Troop Tree

 

[Eärendil Ardamírë]

So, where are the troop trees now? Would be interesting to see them ^^

 

[Gnostic_Monk]

Lemme see if I can upload the flow charts.

Ahh ok so I have to put them on a download site like megaupload or something.

a.tmp.ninja/6LKgj1XRD53h.odg Let me know if that works. If it does then I'll up load the other trees.

 

[Eärendil Ardamírë]

If you have discord, you can also post the picture of the troop trees at a public channel there and embed it in your post here. Would be easier accessible than having to download files without knowing how they look like ^^

 

[Gnostic_Monk]

Ok. I have a Discord lemme get that all set up.

https://discord.gg/88a8YV Here is the Discord Server. I'm uploading the charts.

Let me know if you were not able to get the troop trees?

 

[Eärendil Ardamírë]

I think you still didn't understand what I suggested: Post the pictures of the troop trees at the discord and link the pictures here

 

[Eärendil Ardamírë]

Yes. Put them all in your OP and use spoilers for them ^^

 

[Gnostic_Monk]

Woo! Got it! Thank you yet again Earendil.

Does anyone know how to make a new poll to vote on troop trees? I can't get rid of the current poll on here for some reason.

 

[Eärendil Ardamírë]

I can delete the poll if you have saved the results, you should then be able to set up a new poll.

 

[Gnostic_Monk]

I saved the results. I'm also going to switch the order of the lists to reflect which ones will get worked on. Also I have all my re-research done on the Celtic AND Persian trees PLUS I'm beginning to continue my research on the Viking tree! That means those will be re-posted within the day (in my time zone) if not by tonight! I separated the troop trees out differently as well. Instead of doing one big tree I now have different trees for a single faction which a modder can place in villages, towns and faction owned castles respectively to simulate the difference in feel of a milita as opposed to a standing, professional, army.

 

[Eärendil Ardamírë]

Try if you can add a new poll now.

 

[Gnostic_Monk]

I'm creating the new poll right now. Thank you. I bow to your generosity.

How about that for a re-done and fully finished troop tree @Eärendil the Mariner?

 

[Eärendil Ardamírë]

Looking nice, yes.

 

[Gnostic_Monk]

I should be able to roll out the Romanized German, Scandinavian and Macedonian troop trees all within the next 2 days. Most of the research has been done on those. I have the most information on the Romanized Germans (because of messing up my original Celtic tree), Macedonians and then the Scandinavians in that order. So most likely the Romanized Germans will be posted first. After those trees are done I will work on the Japanese tree which will most likely take two days by itself due to the absolute lack of research.

 

[Gnostic_Monk]

Romanized German troop tree is done. I'm like the only person who's vote on my poll :/

 

[Eärendil Ardamírë]

Don't expect that people will vote a lot withint a short time range ^^

 

[Gnostic_Monk]

Yeah. I'm new to the whole forum thing. The pacing of it is alien to me. Oh, also, I need to clear some stuff up for the record. Most of this stuff will make sense when I release the supplemental guide but some of it is just plain game mechanics related. Lemme know if I should place this next section in the OP.

1. Everything on these troop trees can be divided into nine sections. That's how many troop divisions Warband gives you so that's what I'm building the trees around. The historical divisions and the tactics utilized will be elaborated on in the supplemental guide.
2. Again this will also be expanded on in the guide but a general rule of thumb for these trees is the the MILITIA section are supposed to be the basic level soldiers. Either they don't get exceptional equipment or their skills are mediocre at best but they are recruited from villages so they are plentiful and varied in usefulness. The FIELD ARMY units are specialists that are either expensive to maintain but are effective in almost all situation or they are only slightly more expensive than miltia units BUT are (like the camels) only usable in a hand full of battlefield situations. Lastly the STANDING ARMY category are your elites which either allow you to change up your strategy (like in the Persian tree) or to enhance your existing tactics (in the case of the Greek tree). Skill and equipment wise they should worth the high cost of keeping them on indefinitely in at least small, usable, numbers. This tree should only be available if you are a member of the faction they're from and you personally control either a town and/or a castle.
3. I WILL cover this in the supplement guide but repetition is the best way to learn. I'm basing this off of Warband and specifically the "Pre-battle deployment mod" that is found in many Warband mods as well as the mod that adds formations into the game. I find both of these mods to be very touchy. If you even add one unit of a different type (an archer in an infantry division) then it renders about half the formations in these mods useless. This makes unit classification important when making these trees. For the Persian tree I would make the archers in the militia tree count as infantry. If you do not this will render one whole divisions of units unuse-able. This is also the reason that the Greek tree has so many levels of hoplite or why the Persian tree has a mix archer and spearman at the lower level. This allows you to pool them into a division and to use the "Ranks" or "Shield Wall" features from the better formations and pre-deployment mods. If you were to use any of these these for a Bannerlord mod I would get rid of the unnecessarily tired units such as the one of the hoplites or one the Persian spearmen.
4. Now for some tree specific stuff. I personally would not allow the war elephants (who's riders should be armed with bows) to be recruited from taverns. They are giant hulking (but gentle ones you get to know them) beasts and access to them early in the game could break things. There are a few way around that. Those would be to either make them prohibitively expensive to new players or to only have them be recruit-able from taverns on a certain part of the map. I did the math with the mercenaries and currently if you were to put all the troop trees I've released into your mod there's only a 6% chance they will spawn in a tavern. So, essentially, adding more troop trees to lower the chance of an elephant spawning early in game would theoretically work.
5. Some of the units and trees are subject to being changed. For example on the Celtic tree the "Border Reivers" carried EITHER a longbow OR a crossbow. I decided to change them to a mounted crossbowmen from a mounted longbowman because I felt the tree and what ever mods (if any) these make it into would benefit from the balancing. This is also the kind of thing that will be explained in the supplemental guide. Everyone makes mistakes and I sure make them when I do trees. On top of this as I learn about one military tradition or structure I invariably learn more about another. Some times that requires changes. Usually it doesn't.

 

[Dj_FRedy]

All I can say is, if you put half as much dedication into learning how to implement your own troop trees in the game as you do into creating them, you would have mastered it by now. I assure you, it's more complicated to program a washing machine...
Besides, seeing your own work in-game, will make you rethink the question... why didn't I start with this addictive **** earlier? Anyway, go on with what you were doing, I was just expressing my thoughts on it.
By the way, I voted too, you're not the only one

 

[Gnostic_Monk]

Yeah. That is going to be the next step. Which is re-learning what I attempted the first time in Morgphs editor and implementing it into native Warband. I would also like to mod the Pre-battle deployment and formations AI into native as well. That's what all of this originally started as. Like most modders I wanted to re-do units based on historic tactics and to enhance the strategy elements of the base game. If I'm doing native though that really only allows me to use 6 troops tree due to the items in game. I couldn't just throw the Chinese troop tree in game for example because I would need to mod in items to be able to use that tree. I know there are item packs so I might go down that road. I don't think I'll add factions into my mod. I tried making a faction in my original try and the more I read and attempted to do it just left me with confusion. I personally would prefer to just re-do the original troop trees in native though I like how they're a brief summery of the military traditions of a historical cultural block at an indistinct period in time and not a specific army from one commander. The rest of the troop trees would just be for public consumption. For me though this is more than anything an armchair history research project. I've always loved history and social studies when I was in school so it's a way to be the anthropologist I've always wanted to be but never had the money to be allowed to. Lastly I want to contribute something to the community. I know doing research and modding simultaneously is a time consuming venture so I kind of wanted to provide a set of basic reference troop trees and documentation that modders could use as a cheat sheet to expidite mod creation though imagine most modders enjoy doing the research themselves. Also thank you for your vote and feedback.

 

[Eärendil Ardamírë]

Kingdoms of Arda also created an overview above some of their troop tree plans in case you want to take some inspirations regarding troop tree design:

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?group-posts/791/#js-comment-1500