Troop aesthetics after the armor rework

[Terco_Viejo]

I like it. Just the word "Royal" seems to be missplaced. Why not imperial? I know these do not need to exclude each other, but everything is named imperial in the Empire and has a nice ring to it.

Because "imperial" supposed to be a redundancy...isn't it? Instead royal, is an analogy of" emperor/kingship elite troop". I'm just rambling... ?

 

[Nalgasucia507]

I would keep the word Elite.

 

[Terco_Viejo]

I would keep the word Elite.

Or Palatine... it's also interesting... I just rambling...

 

[Lusitani 5th Empire]

I thought the objective was to actually change/balance the armor values to make it more effective, especially in high tier, not just replace the armor pieces to make them stronger or weaker. I really hope this is only a transition phase, where they test it and then actually make it to the next phase where troops keep their identity and culture. SOON™

 

[Shun]

I thought the objective was to actually change/balance the armor values to make it more effective, especially in high tier, not just replace the armor pieces to make them stronger or weaker. I really hope this is only a transition phase, where they test it and then actually make it to the next phase where troops keep their identity and culture. SOON™

I thought so as well, and I do hope as you do. However, if that was the case, I have a hard time to imagine why TW would first implement a half-step, messing with the visual faction identity, troop trees and shuffling equipment values,, then going back and do it all again, just for real this time. I am pessimistic in that regard.

 

[stevehoos]

I thought the objective was to actually change/balance the armor values to make it more effective, especially in high tier, not just replace the armor pieces to make them stronger or weaker. I really hope this is only a transition phase, where they test it and then actually make it to the next phase where troops keep their identity and culture. SOON™

They just made the game much worse and it's not changing.

 

[Lusitani 5th Empire]

I thought so as well, and I do hope as you do. However, if that was the case, I have a hard time to imagine why TW would first implement a half-step, messing with the visual faction identity, troop trees and shuffling equipment values,, then going back and do it all again, just for real this time. I am pessimistic in that regard.

Well, I actually believe that they will fix at least some of the aesthetics, either by changing to other existing armor or adding new, more fitting to the theme, armor pieces. After doing this is not that difficult to balance the values around where necessary. Overall, I think this is not a bad decision if they actually have plans to improve it further more. If you think about it this was the easiest and simplest way to balance things around, I'm pretty sure this is their rule number 1 when making changes, that and also making incremental improvements, this is, making small changes over and over until you have a final product. From an industry standpoint this is a good and safe approach, but sometimes you need to have the maturity to admit that this is not the best method, and in some cases a bigger step must be taken.

 

[Xaerdys]

I thought so as well, and I do hope as you do. However, if that was the case, I have a hard time to imagine why TW would first implement a half-step, messing with the visual faction identity, troop trees and shuffling equipment values,, then going back and do it all again, just for real this time. I am pessimistic in that regard.

Well, I don't want to create false hopes, but since both cataphracts share the same helmet, it is not impossible, that they could implement another one and just for the time have the elites where the same.

 

[villagewitchdoctor]

I don't like how Vlandian troops look nothing like the concept art on the loading screen. I don't think anyone is using that long mail hauberk in 1.54, it's never had particularly good stats. The exposed unarmoured legs on many of the high tier armours just isn't right for a faction that is supposed to rely on mounted knights. The helmet stats for vlandia are all over the place, usually the laced coif versions are better than the mail ones, cervelliere with padded cap is better than many more encompassing helmets, even cervelliere with padded coif. Laced and padded should be a different look for the same thing. There's actually a lot of redundancies in Vlandian equipment and a lot of it never seems to show up, give it all the same stats and put it in the troop trees.

The original art made them look like the Norman faction, but somewhere along the line they've jumped a few hundred years with those pseudo bascinets the lords wear and the coats of plates, now they're having trouble deciding what the various tiers of troops should look like. If they'd stuck with that, then the top tier would wear long/heraldic mail and faceplate helms, with tiers below wearing shorter mail and nasal helms, below them padded armour and helms and at the bottom some padding and cheap helms or just padded coifs. Those peaked helms should be on the lowest tier light cavalry, they're based on a painted munition sallet for (light) cavalry, not on voulgiers who should have a very protective helm, being that they're max upgrade shock troops. There's a reason it looks like an olympic cycling helmet.

There's glaring errors in many of the stat lines for equipment, weights are all over the place, and many pieces of equipment that are the same have very different stats. Odd choices in civillian tag also, you can wear the pilgrim's hood and cover you face but not the highland hood, can't carry many 1 handed swords but you can carry some 2 handed.

Those weird mail cavalier moon boots just need to go. I'll forgive the mittens because they need to fit different armour sets. All the heater shields need a covering, individual boards should only be visible on the lowest tier shields. The covering wasn't just aesthetic, fabric glued to the front was integral to the strength, almost like a fibreglass material, shrinking to and holding it together.

/rant

Mostly focusing on Vlandia because that's my favorite faction. There's some really awesome assets ingame, miles more fitting than many medieval style games, but it's all let down by bizzare statlines. I remember being glad to get a gambeson/aketon in 1257, but here you have to wear strange leather fashions that would fit better in town scenes, until you scavenge one of the better mails. Then you supplement it with a bearskin off some mountain bandits and whichever helm you win in a tournament with the best stats, regardless of whether it would actually stop more than the one you're wearing.

 

[stevehoos]

I don't like how Vlandian troops look nothing like the concept art on the loading screen. I don't think anyone is using that long mail hauberk in 1.54, it's never had particularly good stats. The exposed unarmoured legs on many of the high tier armours just isn't right for a faction that is supposed to rely on mounted knights. The helmet stats for vlandia are all over the place, usually the laced coif versions are better than the mail ones, cervelliere with padded cap is better than many more encompassing helmets, even cervelliere with padded coif. Laced and padded should be a different look for the same thing. There's actually a lot of redundancies in Vlandian equipment and a lot of it never seems to show up, give it all the same stats and put it in the troop trees.

The original art made them look like the Norman faction, but somewhere along the line they've jumped a few hundred years with those pseudo bascinets the lords wear and the coats of plates, now they're having trouble deciding what the various tiers of troops should look like. If they'd stuck with that, then the top tier would wear long/heraldic mail and faceplate helms, with tiers below wearing shorter mail and nasal helms, below them padded armour and helms and at the bottom some padding and cheap helms or just padded coifs. Those peaked helms should be on the lowest tier light cavalry, they're based on a painted munition sallet for (light) cavalry, not on voulgiers who should have a very protective helm, being that they're max upgrade shock troops. There's a reason it looks like an olympic cycling helmet.

There's glaring errors in many of the stat lines for equipment, weights are all over the place, and many pieces of equipment that are the same have very different stats. Odd choices in civillian tag also, you can wear the pilgrim's hood and cover you face but not the highland hood, can't carry many 1 handed swords but you can carry some 2 handed.

Those weird mail cavalier moon boots just need to go. I'll forgive the mittens because they need to fit different armour sets. All the heater shields need a covering, individual boards should only be visible on the lowest tier shields. The covering wasn't just aesthetic, fabric glued to the front was integral to the strength, almost like a fibreglass material, shrinking to and holding it together.

/rant

Mostly focusing on Vlandia because that's my favorite faction. There's some really awesome assets ingame, miles more fitting than many medieval style games, but it's all let down by bizzare statlines. I remember being glad to get a gambeson/aketon in 1257, but here you have to wear strange leather fashions that would fit better in town scenes, until you scavenge one of the better mails. Then you supplement it with a bearskin off some mountain bandits and whichever helm you win in a tournament with the best stats, regardless of whether it would actually stop more than the one you're wearing.

Thank you for this post. Somebody gets it.

 

[Anushtegin]

i'm not sure why everyone's raging on the new armors. overall it was a big improvement from where they were before. with soem exceptions however:

• some footmen have horsemen equipment (sturgian cavalry helmet for the sturgian spearman and battanian cavalry broadsword for the battanian oathsworn)
• soem regular troops now have their faction's lord helmet (sturgian heavy axeman, imperial palatine guard and IIRC the mamluke heavy axeman?)
• the imperial vigla recruit and equite have western spears instead of imperial spears
• the khuzaite spearman gets bolted leather strips shoulders, which is clearly an imperial item but found in khuzaite towns since early access started. this needs to be corrected.
• as has already been mentioned, the khan's guards have mismatching northern lamellar shoulders
• generally, the khuzaites still wear a lot of mismatchign body & shoulder armor
• the aserai tribal horseman gets a weighted eastern spear which si a khuzaite item
• the battanian horseman gets a hooked spear, which is clearly a mongol item? i just don't see why they should get a hooked spear out of all mounted units as they should not be known for their mounted troops...
• the mamluke and faris have items that would make more sense for their counterpart: the large adarga only seen in the maghrib doesn't make sense for the mamluks who weren't seen west of egypt. should be a round shield instead. the faris gets the eastern vendel helmet which makes more sense for the mamlukes. the vanguard faris gets the mamluke lance, while the actual mamluke horsemen don't.
• both the aserai vanguard faris and heavy mamluke get the stitched leather over mail body armor. this is clearly based on the ferghana horseman from the osprey book. it is therefore central asian armor and more fittign for the khuzaites.
• meanwhile the khuzaite heavy lancer gets the brass lamellar over mail body & shoulder armor, that would fit the aserai much better, specifically their mamluke horsemen.
• also, and this is obviously very much my own opinion, but the brass scale shoulders now worn by the aserai faris, druzhinnik and khuzaite caravan master (and a good number of nobles) looks absolutely unrealistic and, more importantly, doesn't match with any armor in the game right now and should be removed entirely. i'd much rather see new matching shoulder pieces to compliment some of the new and old aserai and sturgian lamellar armors.
• lastly, the horse armor of the aserai mamluke cavalry is too 'futuristic' for this time period. it should be replaced by a different horse armor that is more period accurate. i opened a thread on more horse armor some time ago where i suggests to add more 'soft' horse armor like quilted armor.

again, let me say this update still goes into the right direction, especially for the aserai.

 

[HalfMetalJacket]

i'm not sure why everyone's raging on the new armors. overall it was a big improvement from where they were before. with soem exceptions however:

• some footmen have horsemen equipment (sturgian cavalry helmet for the sturgian spearman and battanian cavalry broadsword for the battanian oathsworn)
• soem regular troops now have their faction's lord helmet (sturgian heavy axeman, imperial palatine guard and IIRC the mamluke heavy axeman?)
• the imperial vigla recruit and equite have western spears instead of imperial spears
• the khuzaite spearman gets bolted leather strips shoulders, which is clearly an imperial item but found in khuzaite towns since early access started. this needs to be corrected.
• as has already been mentioned, the khan's guards have mismatching northern lamellar shoulders
• generally, the khuzaites still wear a lot of mismatchign body & shoulder armor
• the aserai tribal horseman gets a weighted eastern spear which si a khuzaite item
• the battanian horseman gets a hooked spear, which is clearly a mongol item? i just don't see why they should get a hooked spear out of all mounted units as they should not be known for their mounted troops...
• the mamluke and faris have items that would make more sense for their counterpart: the large adarga only seen in the maghrib doesn't make sense for the mamluks who weren't seen west of egypt. should be a round shield instead. the faris gets the eastern vendel helmet which makes more sense for the mamlukes. the vanguard faris gets the mamluke lance, while the actual mamluke horsemen don't.
• both the aserai vanguard faris and heavy mamluke get the stitched leather over mail body armor. this is clearly based on the ferghana horseman from the osprey book. it is therefore central asian armor and more fittign for the khuzaites.
• meanwhile the khuzaite heavy lancer gets the brass lamellar over mail body & shoulder armor, that would fit the aserai much better, specifically their mamluke horsemen.
• also, and this is obviously very much my own opinion, but the brass scale shoulders now worn by the aserai faris, druzhinnik and khuzaite caravan master (and a good number of nobles) looks absolutely unrealistic and, more importantly, doesn't match with any armor in the game right now and should be removed entirely. i'd much rather see new matching shoulder pieces to compliment some of the new and old aserai and sturgian lamellar armors.
• lastly, the horse armor of the aserai mamluke cavalry is too 'futuristic' for this time period. it should be replaced by a different horse armor that is more period accurate. i opened a thread on more horse armor some time ago where i suggests to add more 'soft' horse armor like quilted armor.

again, let me say this update still goes into the right direction, especially for the aserai.

That is a lot of exceptions tbh. But then again, you've also listed things that have always been the case.

• That's always been the case.
• Always been the case too. Just look at guys like Oathsworn. I rather they keep the look though. Anything else would be ugly.
• Not too sure, but a lot of weapons are weird and don't fit factions.
• Meh, 'leather' armour looks extremely generic so it hardly matters
• Yeah, the Khuzaits have some stupid stuff like that.
• The Aserai get a lot 'Khuzait' stuff.
• That's weird, but Battanian Horsemen look like dogsh*t with that terrible leather helmet, which is the bigger problem. Looks even worse with that stupid Warlord torso.
• That brass lamellar is tagged as 'Eastern' though. By your logic so far, only the Khuzait should have it (despite how little it actually fits them)
• Agreed on those shoulders.

And do you seriously think Cataphracts look okay now?

 

[Anushtegin]

And do you seriously think Cataphracts look okay now?

if you phrase it like that: yes, i do think they look okay, but i prefer their old look too. and i also listed stuff that has been like that before, but i thought i might as well give general feedback and not just for the recent changes. this is presumably an ongoign process and they might have missed soem stuff.

 

[RJ_Sera]

if you phrase it like that: yes, i do think they look okay, but i prefer their old look too. and i also listed stuff that has been like that before, but i thought i might as well give general feedback and not just for the recent changes. this is presumably an ongoign process and they might have missed soem stuff.

i want the old mamluk heavy cav coz they look just like warband. I stop playing and wait(hope) they will change it back. Everyone has their own favorite parts such as herd penalty, armor, economy, AI... for me only mamluk armor, everything else is okay for me

 

[Anushtegin]

the old mamluke look and still soem parts in the current look (aserai mamluke cavalry horse armor) don't match the desired timeframe. the change especially for the mamluke horsemen made sense. the aserai are not sarranids. even the sarranid mamlukes looked too modern for the 1250s in warband.

 

[RJ_Sera]

the old mamluke look and still soem parts in the current look (aserai mamluke cavalry horse armor) don't match the desired timeframe. the change especially for the mamluke horsemen made sense. the aserai are not sarranids. even the sarranid mamlukes looked too modern for the 1250s in warband.

u are right, their horse's armor should be lord horse' armor. I love the old looking for the rider(only tier5) scale armor and coverface helmet, for me they are the best looking troop in this game, also love old stugian veterant warrior too

 

[El Capitan]

Banner Knights have always had a grubby green hoodie, not sure what game you guys have been playing if you're just seeing this lol. They're by far the ugliest unit in the game. Or at least they were.

I just hate the Vlandian aesthetic, its like they weren't brave enough to embrace a truly 'Norman-esque' aesthetic and went high medieval, but then they forgot to add cool things like great helms. I don't know why anyone likes them, they're the dullest faction by far.

The poor Battanians though, goddamn. I never liked that warlord set, and now they've gone and added it all over the place. I can't stand it.

Well at least they fixed that celtic-esque chainmail shirt and gave us cool shoulder pads. Too bad the stats are absolute garbage for some reason.


I wouldn't say for armour, no. But I think wearing fur cloaks was something of a status thing around the colder places. Don't know about archaelogical evidence, but I like the look tbh. Its too ingrained for me to not like it. And characters were wearing them in Wiking Conquest, you telling me that game is historically inaccurate too?

Yeah, the warlord set is an abomination. Just when I thought they were getting rid of it and transitioning to a more celtic look, they go ahead and put them back in.

 

[HalfMetalJacket]

Yeah, the warlord set is an abomination. Just when I thought they were getting rid of it and transitioning to a more celtic look, they go ahead and put them back in.

I think I could tolerate them if they were darker, but as they are, they look like mithril lol. And it looks even worse when combined with the darker looks.

Makes you wonder if they even look at their appearances first before approving them.

 

[mikesacramento]

I'm losing a bit of fait in this DEV team at each patch they launch, they may work hard but they don't work smart.

How hard is to keep the matching sets and change the values?

I don't code and did it, only takes a text editor a basic knowledge of xml.

 

[Julius_Persi]

I'm losing a bit of fait in this DEV team at each patch they launch, they may work hard but they don't work smart.

How hard is to keep the matching sets and change the values?

I don't code and did it, only takes a text editor a basic knowledge of xml.

Totally agree chum