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Tribute payments are insane

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Tukomika

Recruit
I don't even know where to start, but tribute payments are insane. I started my kingdom by taking a town when a rebellion occurred, maxed it out, had all of my companions operate caravans all the time, got ~100 relation with all of the notables in my towns and villages. At this point I was earning a lot of money every single day and decided to get myself some mercenaries and created some parties to have more troops in the army so I could start wiping out Sturgia (it was the weakest faction). After taking a few of their towns and castles I made peace with them to start maxing out other towns and improve my relations with notables. I was winning the war, but still had to pay some tribute. Didn't think it was that big of a problem at first. After some time I completely wiped them out and Sturgians had absolutely 0 fiefs. After taking all of their towns and castles I had to make peace with them so they would stop raiding my villages and I still had to pay tribute. At this point I thought that I probably could earn more money and be able to pay them tribute (for no reason). Turns out I could, but there was another problem. Since I got tired of completing same 3 quests of Arzagos conspiracy it got to 2000 and every single faction started to declare war on me. Of course, I didn't want my villages to get raided, so I made peace with all of them. Now my kingdom has to pay 18590 denars everyday. I can't think of a way to fix this. I searched for possible solutions, but there is no other way except killing everyone I go to war with. Can someone help me out?

Also, the expected change is being calculated incorrectly. Tribute payments sometimes don't even show up, sometimes they show up, but show incorrect amount of denars that I have to pay. One day it shows -500, other day it shows -11000. Its confusing. Even though expected change is +10000 I lose anywhere from 2000 to 5000 denars a day.
 

madnessario

Squire
How many vassals do you have in your kingdom? It appears you have a solid base of fiefs so you should be able to recruit them, especially those without fiefs (like Sturgians). You can always improve relations by beating them and releasing them in the post-battle dialogue. You need vassals to compete with the other kingdoms which relates to your actual problem (see below).

You are paying them tribute because you are the one who wants to stop the war, they do not have anything to loose. From a historical perspective (e.g. viking raids in France) it makes sense, from a gameplay perspective perhaps it could be tuned.

But the problem, if I understood correctly, is with the main quest. It sent you into an all out war and you were not prepared. This has happened before, especially to new players who are not expecting it. I would suggest to recruit some vassals, hire some mercenaries and go to war with one of the kingdoms you are paying tribute. That way, you will make money from the battle loot and possibly remove the tribute. Repeat until success.

Also, the expected change is being calculated incorrectly. Tribute payments sometimes don't even show up, sometimes they show up, but show incorrect amount of denars that I have to pay. One day it shows -500, other day it shows -11000. Its confusing. Even though expected change is +10000 I lose anywhere from 2000 to 5000 denars a day.
I am not sure how this works and/or if it is a bug. Someone more knowledgeable than me can chime in.
 

Tukomika

Recruit
You are paying them tribute because you are the one who wants to stop the war, they do not have anything to loose.
I don't think that's how it would work in real life though.

I tried to persuade some of the vassals from Sturgia, but the price I have to pay them is a bit too big, the amount of money I lost while trying to figure out a way to stop losing money got me to 10k denars and now I am surviving by smithing.

Thank you for trying to help me.
 

madnessario

Squire
I don't think that's how it would work in real life though.

I tried to persuade some of the vassals from Sturgia, but the price I have to pay them is a bit too big, the amount of money I lost while trying to figure out a way to stop losing money got me to 10k denars and now I am surviving by smithing.

Thank you for trying to help me.

The viking raids in France (and elsewhere) are an example of such a thing. They would raid the countryside, the king would offer them money/tribute and they would stop for some time.

Yes the gold they require depends on your power, (their) possession of fiefs, your relations with them (hence the fight and release trick from above) and their relation to their liege. As a suggestion, before establishing a kingdom try to have at least 1 million in gold in order to buy the first few vassals; after that, give them a fief to secure them and continue. The main quest is not mandatory to create a kingdom, you can always do it until you get your brothers (to have more parties) and stop. Outside the quest you can create your kingdom as a tier 4 clan (instead of 3).

If you are not aware, you can create parties out of your companions. When you create your kingdom you can also create armies. This means that you can call all your companions under you (cohesion for companion armies only is free, it does not require influence) in order to create large armies. This way you can reach parties of 500+ with only your family/companions.
 

Tukomika

Recruit
If you are not aware, you can create parties out of your companions. When you create your kingdom you can also create armies. This means that you can call all your companions under you (cohesion for companion armies only is free, it does not require influence) in order to create large armies. This way you can reach parties of 500+ with only your family/companions.
I knew that calling family members and companions to army costs 0 influence. Also, with some help from policies I was able to reach 300 troop limit in my own party. That's not really the problem right now. Currently I am not even playing, just researching how to earn more denars and stop paying tribute or at least reduce it. I have around 10k denars. The expected change shows around +10k, but I am still losing 5-10k every day, so I just sell stuff. The only way I think of to get out of debt without cheating is by letting my wife get killed and try to find a new one so I can sell her equipment. Maybe by staying out of debt for long enough, my towns could get enough prosperity for more taxes. I also found some policies, that could increase my earnings. If you know any other ways I could earn more money, let me know.
 

madnessario

Squire
The safest route (apart from some broken things in smithing, like javelins) will be to go for trading. Go to Aserai land, there are several villages (and a town) in the south that all produce/sell horses. Buy as many Aserai/Desert horses as you can (I would start from the east). Buy as much as you can and head over to Vlandia. Sell your horses as you move north. Every city you visit you buy/sell products from the previous city etc. After a while you will grasp what to buy and what to sell as you make the circle of the world (Aserai -> Vlandia -> Battania -> Sturgia -> Khuzait -> Aserai). A single trip like this can net you more than 150K depending on your available money and the state of the world economy.

As an extra tip, newly captured towns usually require food/things that you can sell them for very good prices.
You can always start a war with a kingdom that is loosing another war in order to invalidate the tribute and/or gain a fief or clan members that recently lost their fief. The most lucrative way to make money in the game currently is to beat large armies. The loot post battle can easily net you tens of thousands.

PS: I have not played for some time now but the profits for trading (e.g. 150K) should be very high, I doubt anything substantial has changed in that regard.
 
I had to make peace with them so they would stop raiding my villages
Next time try, I mean it's only 225 scouting and riding so you could get maybe in current game. Need to be on 1.5.10
Another option would be to try and recruit all the now landless sturgeon clans. You could even just use a fast horsy party to catch and release all the raider for awhile to get +relation. Of course if you have other vassals they may try to pass peace or more wars and ruin your plans

But yeah it's very obnoxious how fief less factions behave and how slow they are to go into other factions.

Another of many many reasons playing as a solo clan is more enjoyable then making kingdom. You can just make peace without the election/tribute system and it lasts.
 

Tukomika

Recruit
Opt into the beta on Steam. Phone posting so I can't link a pic but you right click on properties and select the beta tab, then select 1.5.10. It comes after 1.5.1.
Thank you. Turns out I was blind and didnt notice that it was after 1.5.1, not after 1.5.9
 

mexxico

Developer
Also, the expected change is being calculated incorrectly. Tribute payments sometimes don't even show up, sometimes they show up, but show incorrect amount of denars that I have to pay. One day it shows -500, other day it shows -11000. Its confusing. Even though expected change is +10000 I lose anywhere from 2000 to 5000 denars a day.
This happens because if other clans in your kingdom can pay some of tributes you have to pay less. However if they (all / some) left with 0 money you have to pay (all / remaining) tribute. How many clans your kingdom has? Have you got a save file?

About Strugia case, if a kingdom left with 0 settlements they do not accept peace with 0 tribute easily. Because if they accept peace with getting nothing in this case they accept being eliminated, no income source means all clans in that kingdom will be poor and defect other kingdoms in 1-2 years. So they start to make a gerilla war aganist you until you accept paying tribute. They try to damage you and get one of their old settlements back to get an income. If they can succeed this they could accept peace without tribute or less tribute so they can make a come back.
 
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Tukomika

Recruit
This happens because if other clans in your kingdom can pay some of tributes you have to pay less. However if they (all / some) left with 0 money you have to pay (all / remaining) tribute. How many clans your kingdom has? Have you got a save file?
At the time I posted this, my kingdom had 0 clans, 0 mercenaries. I tried uploading a save file before (because of the companion prisoner bug), but it wouldn't let me. Is there any other way I can upload a save file?

About Strugia case, if a kingdom left with 0 settlements they do not accept peace with 0 tribute easily. Because if they accept peace with getting nothing in this case they accept being eliminated, no income source means all clans in that kingdom will be poor and defect other kingdoms in 1-2 years. So they start to make a gerilla war aganist you until you accept paying tribute. They try to damage you and get one of their old settlements back to get an income. If they can succeed this they could accept peace without tribute or less tribute so they can make a come back.
Not trying to be rude or anything, but it still doesn't sound right to me. A person putting his life on the line for some money. Maybe it's just me.
 

mexxico

Developer
At the time I posted this, my kingdom had 0 clans, 0 mercenaries. I tried uploading a save file before (because of the companion prisoner bug), but it wouldn't let me. Is there any other way I can upload a save file?


Not trying to be rude or anything, but it still doesn't sound right to me. A person putting his life on the line for some money. Maybe it's just me.
You can send your file to [email protected]
 
About Strugia case, if a kingdom left with 0 settlements they do not accept peace with 0 tribute easily. Because if they accept peace with getting nothing in this case they accept being eliminated, no income source means all clans in that kingdom will be poor and defect other kingdoms in 1-2 years. So they start to make a gerilla war aganist you until you accept paying tribute. They try to damage you and get one of their old settlements back to get an income. If they can succeed this they could accept peace without tribute or less tribute so they can make a come back.

Makes sense! A kingdom with nothing to lose can go High Risk, High Reward. They have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
 

Tukomika

Recruit
Makes sense! A kingdom with nothing to lose can go High Risk, High Reward. They have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
So probably taking away everything from a kingdom could lead them to losing clans. With only one clan left, you could always stay at war with them and take all of the heroes of that clan prisoner. This way I wouldn't need to pay tribute and my villages wouldn't get burned down.
 
So probably taking away everything from a kingdom could lead them to losing clans. With only one clan left, you could always stay at war with them and take all of the heroes of that clan prisoner. This way I wouldn't need to pay tribute and my villages wouldn't get burned down.
Yup, finish what you started.

And not just the heroes.

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