training marnid/borcha to fight...

[Homie]

I usualy just pump int on marnid and borcha and give them nothing but party skills (usualy trainer and surgery and first aid split between both fo them). But this time, i want to make them fighters. I thought it would be cool to have 2 fighters that rode beside me that could never die and could charge in with me in black armor.

So i was wondering what weapons they are best at using. I don't want to pump their polearm mastery and give them great lances to find out that their AI is terrible at using a lance. So if anyone has used them as fighters, plz let me know what weapons they are good at using.

And 1 more question.. can a horse they are riding be crippled in battle?

 

[DaLagga]

Well, all i ever use them as is support units, just to increase party skills like you said. However, they really aren't too much better than knights once you get them fully equipped and all. Sure, they never die, but they take forever to level. Especially now that it takes 1mil exp just to hit level...38 or something like that. I just gave them full black, steel shield and watered-steel scimitar and they did alright.

And 1 more question.. can a horse they are riding be crippled in battle?

No, at least as of .632.

 

[okiN]

Homie, the couched AI is better than it used to be, but I still wouldn't say it's perfect, so I wouldn't give them lances. They can be trained into skilled skirmishers, but since the ranged AI is dodgy, making them archers or whatnot would be risky. I'd say your best bet is giving them heavy great axes, balanced swords of war or balanced bastard swords and reinforced steel shields. Heavy morningstars also deal pretty damn brutal damage for one-handers. For capture missions give them heavy military hammers (Not warhammers!) and reinforced steel shields.

I'd say they're equally effective using one-handers and two-handers. They kill a bit more with two-handers but shields help them against ranged foes and make blocking easier for them, so in the end they're pretty much just as useful either way. Good luck finding all of that stuff, though.

 

[Mr_PeaCH]

Related subject but what's the concensus of giving them horses? Does it directly impact the party speed if they're mounted/unmounted? When I gave Marnid a horse for battle he became totally unmanagable and would ride right into the opposing hordes while I was busy trying to marshall my troops to me (1 - Hold this position; or 2 - Follow me). Good to know he can't be perma-killed but sort of ruined my plans for a mounted sidekick. What's the deal with that?

 

[Blade]

Na, once they are mounted, you can pretty much forget having them under controll.
What has worked for me best is giving them 2 handed, then getting them into a full black armor and giving them a Heavy Greataxe. With that they can deal pretty good damage before they get swarmed and knocked out!

 

[Qwertyest]

I've given Borcha a thick leather jerkin for armour (best 'light' armour there is), a good helmet and some leather boots.

For weapons, he has a crossbow, a watered-steel scimitar and a shield.

No Horse.

In my last battle, Borcha killed about 5-6 enemy troops!

 

[Jund]

I usually give Marnid a mount and a lance and he's a killing machine. So I don't agree with okiN on this point, but I agree that its a mistake to make them ranged(particularly ranged and mounted) attackers. I did this once and learned pretty quickly that more often or not, they ignore your "follow me" orders and end up being run down and beaten silly before the fight begins.

Generally, I give Marnid a polearm and shield and put him on a horse. He's pretty effective this way. I usually give Borcha a sword and shield or 2 hand weapon and put him on foot with me. I may try and make him into a sword and shield calvaryman. As I recall, he has a pretty high riding skill out of the gate.

For myself, I usually play it sword and shield with a bow (I like archers). I fight both on foot and mounted, but rarely fight mounted and ranged.

 

[okiN]

Na, once they are mounted, you can pretty much forget having them under controll.

That's just a legend. Mélee cavalry follows my orders to the letter.

Qwertyest: Hardened beats thick.

Jund, they're pretty good at couching now, but if they run into something and get stuck, they don't have the brains to hightail it out of there.

 

[svart]

I've given Borcha a thick leather jerkin for armour (best 'light' armour there is), a good helmet and some leather boots.

For weapons, he has a crossbow, a watered-steel scimitar and a shield.

No Horse.

In my last battle, Borcha killed about 5-6 enemy troops!

I gotta try on my next restart.

So far i get both the heroes with the heaviest armor and horse possible, and jousting lances, it pays back because they level faster and actually pile prisoners every now and then.
level wise, that means a few points of strength and a few points at weapon master so their skills increases faster. (and i actually can use the combat points)

 

[Blade]

Na, once they are mounted, you can pretty much forget having them under controll.

That's just a legend. Mélee cavalry follows my orders to the letter.

Qwertyest: Hardened beats thick.

Jund, they're pretty good at couching now, but if they run into something and get stuck, they don't have the brains to hightail it out of there.

Hmmm, tell me your secret okiN. Just yesterday I had to bash on the dismount key like crazy till they at last did what i told them!

When they are mounted, they are MUCH harder to controll and you have to repeat orders a lot so they get understood by them, at least to my experience!

 

[okiN]

Repetition has nothing to do with it. They're a bit sluggish, but in the end they're as obedient as dogs. Just hit 1 at the very start of the battle: they'll start to gallop away, but soon enough they'll turn around and trot back over to you.

 

[dablade]

I allways give them horses and crossbows. If you give them crossbows they'll obey when you tell them to dismount.
After a while they begin to level up faster, making a fair deal of kils with their crossbows.
After .07 i give them bastard swords and shields for melee, and they handle them selves nicely.

 

[captain_bloodloss]

what is watered steel? i have never seen it

 

[okiN]

It's the best weapon modifier, adding 2 damage and 2 speed. It's only available for a few weapons, I think it's scimitars, nomad sabres and daggers.

 

[Handel]

They can be anything except horse archers! AI horse archers cannot hit an elephant from 2 meters!

BTW - and why the hell you will give them a crossbow AND a horse, just to command them to unmount?

 

[Blade]

Repetition has nothing to do with it. They're a bit sluggish, but in the end they're as obedient as dogs. Just hit 1 at the very start of the battle: they'll start to gallop away, but soon enough they'll turn around and trot back over to you.

Hehe, i guess ill have to work on my patience skill a bit!!

 

[Slaists]

They can be anything except horse archers! AI horse archers cannot hit an elephant from 2 meters!

BTW - and why the hell you will give them a crossbow AND a horse, just to command them to unmount?

one has to have archery proficiency above 200 (and high horse archery ability does not hurt either) in order to become a good horse archer in post .632; i do not see why it wouldn't apply to borcha and marnid as well. try raising them to ability 10 in horse archery and riding and 200+ in archery proficiency (black khergits have it lower). i suspect: they would be deadly...

as to the second question: one reason to give them a horse along with a crossbow is MAP SPEED... if all units are cavalry: the map speed is much higher. of course, that means one has to take the horses away before the battle if they want borcha and manrid to fight on foot (or order them and everyone else to dismount).

 

[Trex]

WHO woulndn't be deadly with a Horse Archery at 10?????? (or for that matter ANY combat feat at 10)

 

[Slaists]

Well... knights have some of these combat abilities at 6 (I think) and weapons' proficiencies in mid 100'ds. Thus, if you want to make Borcha and Marnid better fighters: you have to raise theirs higher.