Skirmish Trading Post

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Callum

Master Knight
tradingpost.png

Please leave all map-related feedback for Trading Post in this thread.

minimap_trading.jpg
 
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Mabons

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
This is probably the most balanced map right now, it does heavily lean towards people spamming cavalry but you've got pockets of the map you can fight on that diminishes that.

People can still jump from A down to the ground on B by sliding down the walls, it's particularly noticeable on the right side if looking from the picture.
 

Tomppa

Recruit
There are some bugs in terms of the cap circle that makes cav stop when entering/leaving the circle from a certain angle.
Apart from this, the map is most balanced one out there for skirmish mode, although it has a favor for cav for the time being.
 

Caps

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
There are some bugs in terms of the cap circle that makes cav stop when entering/leaving the circle from a certain angle.
Apart from this, the map is most balanced one out there for skirmish mode, although it has a favor for cav for the time being.
probably because cav is broken in all aspects. It would be better if they cant run in from 10 angles aswell. Sometimes for me the map looks empty. (feels like its missing some props)
 
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Tomppa

Recruit
probably because cav is broken in all aspects. It would be better if they cant run in from 10 angles aswell
I agree, the map still needs to be balanced to favor infantry more than it is currently. If one of the factions gets khuzait (<- pls nerf) then its pretty much gg with those lancers (<- also nerf) with bows roaming around.
 

Faranox

Knight at Arms
M&BWBWF&SVC
The map feels very good in skirmish. The multiple avenues provide adequate cover for infantry to move around. A being positioned on top of B is very cool positioning, but players being able to abuse the map to safely circumvent the standard routs from upper to lower is a problem.
 

schubertt

Knight
WBM&BNWWF&SVC
I wrote the following regarding the current skirmish maps in a thread discussing cavalry balance during the beta, with this map particularly in mind.
Another issue that I feel is relevant to this discussion (and equally to a discussion of archer balance) is map design. Looking at the majority of flag positions on the current skirmish maps, it is typical that they are set in an open area, with more defensive positions set around them at a wide array of angles, often leading to the other flags. In my experience, this - alongside the longer time it takes to kill a player - is making infantry fights around the flag usually spread out, providing an advantage to archers (sitting in defensive positions too far away for infantry to safely push them) and cavalry, who can easily swing any of those scattered 1v1s into a quick kill. I'd like to see many of the flag areas close in. This should force archers to move closer to the flag (into positions where an infantry pushing them could be viable), force cavalry to play in a measured way, and makes playing infantry on the flag feel more comfortable. I think that map layouts which incentivise infantry to move onto the flags would go some distance to addressing class balance concerns, and would seem to fit the goal behind the skirmish mode.
This doesn't really apply to flag B on this map, but I think that it certainly applies to both A and C, so here are some changes I would make to those flags.

2Fc9E8p.png

On flag A, infantry from both teams are very exposed if they try to push for the flags. The first change I would make to alleviate this is tightening the proximity of the flag to the surrounding buildings, by bringing the pair of open buildings behind the flag in the screenshot forward, so as to be connected, roughly perpendicular, to the building on the left of the screenshot. This would force cavalry to be more reserved in attacking infantry on the flag, and make the position more viable for archers to move to.

This final point relates to the other issue that I have with flag A: archers shooting from the ramps leading up to it. Both ramps have clear view of any fight on the flag, and only cavalry can effectively deal with them given the distance to these ramps. I would suggest adding obstacles (which could be a small building, or something as minor as a cart) which partially cover the flag from the ramps. Should archers still choose to shoot from the ramps, a player on the flag could maneuver themselves to be covered by those obstacles; on the other hand, archers could shoot from the obstacles to protect themselves from cavalry more effectively.

As a final suggestion, I would move the stairs which are right of the rightmost building of the screenshot, so that they are on the left side of the building. This would further contract the flag area, and encourage fights within the corner behind the flag.

6m6EGI6.png

Unfortunately, I think that the best way I can illustrate my suggested changes on C is with an overview made in Paint.
OrjP4f5.png

The area between Buildings 1 and 2 is currently too open, leaving a player on the flag very exposed if they are also threatened from another angle. I think that rotating Building 1 and moving it slightly across the gap would significantly improve the feel of the flag area. Alongside this, I would detach Building 2 and move it around the gap, further closing off that back area whilst also opening up space behind the tree.

This is the site of the final change I would make here: move the tree closer to the flag by a couple of metres, whilst also slightly elevating the area - from the tree backwards - which currently sits to the left of the path in my screenshot. With the area around the back closed in, the tree becomes a much safer spot for an archer to shoot from, and a slight elevation in the terrain will further improve that. Conversely, the position could be pushed by someone near the flag, and cavalry could move through the buildings behind them.

Finally, the size of the map has been raised as an issue, and I think there is a case to be made for moving C a few metres closer to the other flags, or for rotating the ramps from A towards C slightly. Furthermore, some of the paths and areas around the map could be reduced in size or eliminated; I've drawn some suggestions below.

TLFhqoa.png

Overall, I think that this map is the best of the skirmish maps currently, since it creates the triangle between its flags in a compelling way. But the gamemode essentially demands that infantry can move onto flags and capture them, and so an ideal map would be more infantry-friendly than this currently feels. The changes suggested here should significantly ameliorate this issue.
 

Mabons

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
The above post is quality. You could actually cut out the t1 and t2 starting positions and just have them start in s1 each side. That would make the map smaller and push people away from A as well, because right now most of the fights break out over A.
 

schubertt

Knight
WBM&BNWWF&SVC
Thanks. Fully agree regarding the spawns; those outer areas really feel excessive and moving the spawns into the s1 area will integrate the full map into the beginning of a match much more so than it is now.
 

Caps

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
the stairs on c slow you down akwardly? In general when you walk over stair vertical


edit: flatten some parts of the map
 
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KSHMR

Sergeant at Arms
I kind of like this map even though I like infantry maps the most.

However, I have massive fps problems on flag A (at the top of that big building above B). I dont know why but my FPS is okay on all sides of the map but when I get around A I have massive lags. I have also heard other people with the same problem.

At this moment, I try to go C or B all the time because I get 140 fps there. And on flag A I have 60 FPS

Do you guys have anything similar?
 

DainMorgot

Sergeant
This map is way too open on all points. Even on B, there is enough space for cavalry to be dominant, same as archers. The small corridor stairs are impossible to fight in, and infantry is exposed on every single flag on this map. I understand having open spaces, but this, in my opinion is too much.
 

Sebebar

Sergeant
For me map is unplayable after some patches i still have like 30 fps or less on A flag but it was fine before yeah i have potato pc but other maps are just fine...
 

Yukmouth++

Squire
This map promotes cavalry and archery too much because some areas are way too open. So open it would fit more in the captain mode rather than skirmish. The highlight of this map, by far, is point B and its relationship with points A and C, the way point B is designed saves the day by being UNDER point A, if it was in a triangle type of formation, this map would be unredeemable for me.

Suggestion :
Point A is way too open,i like the ramps, it gives cavalry options and archers can shoot at each other more effectively, but then again, as always, Infantry are being left out, because this map doesnt promote them at all. They should add some sort of building right in the middle of the roof to give walls to infantry against archers on ramps. At this moment archers have time to shoot like 4 to 5 arrows before the Inf arrive to the flag or the melee fight. Aesthetically, to fit the concept of the map, it could be some sort of relaxing spot with a fountain where the rich merchants go relax or bring their clients to negociate, i think some sort of garden or fountain would fit near A point on that roof, rather than this big emptyness filled with projectiles flying.

In other words, make Tradepost TIGHTER to make it promote infantry more.
 
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KSHMR

Sergeant at Arms
My fps on this map is still considerably lower than on all other maps.. Its a nice map but something seems to be consuming huge cpu power there
 

levilop

Sergeant
My fps on this map is still considerably lower than on all other maps.. Its a nice map but something seems to be consuming huge cpu power there
I got the same issue on this map, especially around Flag A. There my FPS will regularly drop to ~50ish, but normally I have 70-80.
 

KSHMR

Sergeant at Arms
I got the same issue on this map, especially around Flag A. There my FPS will regularly drop to ~50ish, but normally I have 70-80.
That is exactly what I am having. The problem is that most fights occur in that area so we usually end up fighting in the "low fps zone".. Anyways, perhaps @NIN3 can tell us more about this. The main point is that the FPS drops around A flag.
 

NIN3

Knight
NW
That is exactly what I am having. The problem is that most fights occur in that area so we usually end up fighting in the "low fps zone".. Anyways, perhaps @NIN3 can tell us more about this. The main point is that the FPS drops around A flag.
I forwarded it to the engine team, I guess they or the scene artist will get around to check it soon. Sorry for the low fps. Is it really just this map?
 
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