Tournaments bets are broken and pointless, after last update

[Futui]

After last patch, tournament maximum bet amount was reduced from 300 to 150. Bets now absolutely useless. First round bet, placed 150, win - 180 (+30), second round placed 150, win 160 (+10). Round 3 and 4 - placed 150, win 150. Total bet 600, total win 640... In previous patch total bet 1200, total win 1600-1900 = +400-700, usually 500 gold.
It's look completely useless, already after 5-7 ingame days (but its really hard to win in first weeks). Fight vs 7-12 looters takes 40 seconds and will give about 350+ gold. Tournament takes about 4 minutes and give +40 bet and an average of 200 gold for selling prize.
Quite possible to balance it with raising the bet to 200, and return old system, or return 300+ gold with current system. Maybe need reduce the total number of tournaments, tournaments in ancient times were very prestigious and not every day in every city.
Maybe you need to add some system, when a player has a bigger stock of money, increase the potential winnings. Because I have about 800k gold, and +40 gold looks like joke.

 

[Sir Pwn-A-Lot]

Fights versus looters actually take around couple seconds because auto-resolving them is completely safe.
What TW was thinking with this change to the tournaments is beyond me. Economy right now is completely broken, sure, but none of the economy problems were caused by tournaments, they were actually a huge risk for a low level character and reward rarely was worth the time investment anyway. But instead of addressing real issues with tournaments they just made them not worth doing at all, which will result in less feedback on them. Fix challengers wearing their own armor. Fix 1v1 AI abuse. Fix spear+shield duels. Fix rewards being useless for mid-lategame characters.
Fix tournaments as a whole first, balance the rewards later.

 

[Duskmare]

Fights versus looters actually take around couple seconds because auto-resolving them is completely safe.
What TW was thinking with this change to the tournaments is beyond me. Economy right now is completely broken, sure, but none of the economy problems were caused by tournaments, they were actually a huge risk for a low level character and reward rarely was worth the time investment anyway. But instead of addressing real issues with tournaments they just made them not worth doing at all, which will result in less feedback on them. Fix challengers wearing their own armor. Fix 1v1 AI abuse. Fix spear+shield duels. Fix rewards being useless for mid-lategame characters.
Fix tournaments as a whole first, balance the rewards later.

Yeah. Also really disappointed with the change to tournaments. Especially the item nerf. That was pretty much the only reason to do them in the first place. Something is wrong with the shops and they won't sell high tier armour, so your best bet was to win a good helmet in the tourneys and find a good set of armour fighting lords. Now there's just no point doing tourneys because they reduced the max value of items you can win down to 2000. Which is basically nothing.

Not sure what XP changes they made but I'm really hoping they didn't lower it... It's already really hard to get XP in this game and tournaments or practice fights were making it much more manageable yesterday. Not too managable, just about right. Only hit level 70 with 1 handed weapons (the most commonly used in tournaments and practice fights). Everything else was about level 30. Not high at all, just much better than having to get them from actual fights.

 

[Ichon]

Yeah. Also really disappointed with the change to tournaments. Especially the item nerf. That was pretty much the only reason to do them in the first place. Something is wrong with the shops and they won't sell high tier armour, so your best bet was to win a good helmet in the tourneys and find a good set of armour fighting lords. Now there's just no point doing tourneys because they reduced the max value of items you can win down to 2000. Which is basically nothing.

Not sure what XP changes they made but I'm really hoping they didn't lower it... It's already really hard to get XP in this game and tournaments or practice fights were making it much more manageable yesterday. Not too managable, just about right. Only hit level 70 with 1 handed weapons (the most commonly used in tournaments and practice fights). Everything else was about level 30. Not high at all, just much better than having to get them from actual fights.

The max item value for currently how easy the tournaments are to win is fine- the low value items are completely wrong though. Value of Prize should be 500-1,500 if betting is allowed to make more than 300, slightly higher max Prize of 2,000 if betting is set as currently but the lowest Prize value should never be below 500 or maybe a bit higher. Winning some peasant rags or a jagged spear worth 40 that you get 20x of fighting some looters does not make sense.

The frequency of the tournaments is also... either a bit too much of there should be higher level tournaments once a week or once a month with better competitors (all champions/lords) and better prizes.

 

[andycott]

Maybe not the best change, but also maybe they have their reasons.

 

[Meedean]

The tournament bets got broken after 1.0.6. You make more money from arena fights than tournaments now, which seems definitely wrong. I hope TW corrects this, as I believe tournaments are an integral gameplay component.

 

[Meedean]

Below is an example of the issue. Why would you bet $600 just to win $120? That just doesn't make any sense when you can win $250 from just arena fights without putting any money up front.

At stake: $600
Expected: $720
Earnings: $120 (Difference)

 

[andycott]

?‍
I would completely understand if they had changed max bets in mini-games from 500 to 300, because it's way too easy to win in Tablut (Empire mini-game) and make money this way in the very beginning of the game.

But if you think about it, maybe earnings from tournaments were also too big and unbalanced from the start, because these are not too difficult, especially if you have good gear, you gain extra XP and you don't risk losing HP. Also when you win, you gain +3 renown, which is not too little in the beginning, a price - nice gear or weapon for the beginning of the game, which is also very valuable sometimes and can be sold. So maybe adding +400+700 from bets to all that ? was too much.

The only thing is that after they nerfed it, there is no reason to bet at all, because the earnings are a joke and not worth the risk if you lose.
But participating in tournaments is fun sometimes any way, so personally for me "no bets" policy doesn't change too much.

 

[Meedean]

?‍

But if you think about it, maybe earnings from tournaments were also too big and unbalanced from the start, because these are not too difficult, especially if you have good gear, you gain extra XP and you don't risk losing HP. Also when you win, you gain +3 renown, which is not too little in the beginning, a price - nice gear or weapon for the beginning of the game, which is also very valuable sometimes and can be sold. So maybe adding +400+700 from bets to all that ? was too much.

The only thing is that after they nerfed it, there is no reason to bet at all, because the earnings are a joke and not worth the risk if you lose.
But participating in tournaments is fun sometimes any way, so personally for me "no bets" policy doesn't change too much.

It was a max of $300 per bet, now it's $100 and the return is less than half. They can simply tweak the return on each bet since it's just a multiplier. Or they can simply let you get your money back plus the earnings. That way it's not such a waste. Sure the +3 renown and the gear you get if you win are nice, but if you don't make it to the end you stand to lose more than you invest, so why bother. If tournament's are just there as a way to get you renown, take the bets out entirely. No sense spending valuable real-estate code on a unused feature.

I also don't use bets as they're basically useless for the above reasons. Still, TW should look at improving this area, or perhaps they've left it open for modders to address?

 

[andycott]

It was a max of $300 per bet, now it's $100 and the return is less than half. They can simply tweak the return on each bet since it's just a multiplier. Or they can simply let you get your money back plus the earnings. That way it's not such a waste. Sure the +3 renown and the gear you get if you win are nice, but if you don't make it to the end you stand to lose more than you invest, so why bother. If tournament's are just there as a way to get you renown, take the bets out entirely. No sense spending valuable real-estate code on a unused feature.

I also don't use bets as they're basically useless for the above reasons. Still, TW should look at improving this area, or perhaps they've left it open for modders to address?

In beta they nerfed AI combat too, so tournaments became even easier and not interesting. So it's just a very easy and fast way to win a gear or to earn money by selling it.

But I agree that bets are nearly useless at this point. Even in the very beginning of the game, when you don't have money, bets are a joke.

 

[jakl201]

Yeap, it is kinda odd right now with the current changes. Until TaleWorlds wants to know what to do with them, I use this mod:

Tournaments XPanded (The Tournament XPerience)

Makes Tournaments Awesome

www.nexusmods.com

Basically made tournaments fun again. Can change the gold output, increase the loot that'll drop, everything about tournaments is now pretty moddable for those interested.

 

[andycott]

Tournaments XPanded (The Tournament XPerience)

Makes Tournaments Awesome

www.nexusmods.com

Personally for me the worst change in tournaments is nerfed AI combat.
At least tournaments should include more elite troop types and less low tier ones, because high tier troops remained on practically the same level as before beta.

 

[jakl201]

Personally for me the worst change in tournaments is nerfed AI combat.
At least tournaments should include more elite troop types and less low tier ones, because high tier troops remained on practically the same level as before beta.

I only tried beta for a little bit, for some reason in my game *all* of the chars. got their height/weight set to max, so suddenly all troops/nobles/etc were giant beefy folks that made you wonder how they got into their gear in the first place. xD

And the AI was always kinda dumb. Run right-> Slash from left has won tournaments for me *constantly*.For the duels at least. I do like how it's a bit fun getting some practice in couching a lance in the horse based tourney's at least.

 

[andycott]

I only tried beta for a little bit, for some reason in my game *all* of the chars. got their height/weight set to max, so suddenly all troops/nobles/etc were giant beefy folks that made you wonder how they got into their gear in the first place. xD

And the AI was always kinda dumb. Run right-> Slash from left has won tournaments for me *constantly*.For the duels at least. I do like how it's a bit fun getting some practice in couching a lance in the horse based tourney's at least.

Yes, AI was dumb and remains such.
But now low/middle tier troops became even weaker. I understand why they made this change, but still.

 

[Meedean]

Yeap, it is kinda odd right now with the current changes. Until TaleWorlds wants to know what to do with them, I use this mod:

Tournaments XPanded (The Tournament XPerience)

Makes Tournaments Awesome

www.nexusmods.com

Basically made tournaments fun again. Can change the gold output, increase the loot that'll drop, everything about tournaments is now pretty moddable for those interested.

Aweseome. Thanks for the tip. Cheers!

 

[fr0stpew]

Money is boring and there is far too much of it in the game currently. I think tournaments should give gradually more exp to your combat skills (melee, missiles, horse, athletics). with each round. Would be a good way to level up your char faster thus giving them meaning.
The gear from them is underwhelming. I get 34 armour helmets from it most of the time, good helmets ofc, but what is the point of having 10 helmets when I can't give my companions decent chest armour.
So yeah, imo more exp and more loot variety, money is overflowing and boring.

Edit: What if bets, rather than giving you money, would increase the minumum and maximum values of the item reward?

 

[Luminouscales]

Tournaments are way more of a common sight compared to Warband. Provided you win, you can go from pretty much town to town winning a few hundred denars plus the item reward. The low reward is reasonable with how common it is.

Still, they are quite underwhelming. Smithing or just battling makes it mroe rewarding. Making them rarer with bigger rewards, or making them give you XP would make them good. As of now I just treat them like a fun battle between the travelling.

 

[Rapozk]

Tournaments are way more of a common sight compared to Warband. Provided you win, you can go from pretty much town to town winning a few hundred denars plus the item reward. The low reward is reasonable with how common it is.

Still, they are quite underwhelming. Smithing or just battling makes it mroe rewarding. Making them rarer with bigger rewards, or making them give you XP would make them good. As of now I just treat them like a fun battle between the travelling.

I did a playthrough were I went to every single town in Bannerlord and made sure to win every tournament at least once. I did it when I could get full xp from tournaments and better betting, It was kinda fun. Except for the end, for the last 6 or 7 towns the new patch came out, for them it was just a meaningless chore to finish the rest. No XP gain, no money gain. Making a tournament master playthrough became meaningless after that.

Anyway, I do have an idea to make tournaments better, keep the really low xp gain that is currently in tournaments, but if you win you also get an XP reward. Maybe if you win you get the full XP from what you did in the tournament, if you lose, you only get the silly small rewards that is currently in? That would be neat for me, a real reward for the tournaments.

I have intentions of try and make a mod that changes tournaments a lot, based on ideas from my playtrough, but it seems like there are talks that there will be more things added to them, such as archery competitions and horse races, so I will wait until then before I do anything.