BEAST - Bannerlord Early Access Skirmish Tournament

BEAST is the first Bannerlord Skirmish tournament in Europe.

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Tournament staff is not allowing new strong teams to form.

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Varian♛

Squire
WBNW
Quick question: Why is it that almost every season a new team is formed and every time there is this discussion?
 

OneOrThrEe

Regular
WB
No offense but last time your newly formed team basically quit Div A once they realized they wouldnt get the results they thought they would get/deserve
You mean because we didn't win ? We went for it. We had so many trainings lined up with rm and dm. Then the game broke. I don't know exactly what you mean why we thought we would deserve? Not to mention that our first 2 games were rm and dm. We very likely would have stayed for the next season if the game didn't break.
Eiter way ..
What should we do then? Revert back to 6 teams and then back to seven once a new team decides to show up and demands a Div A spot.
If you read my whole post you'd see that that is not my favorite proposal.
And on top of that my idea is a long-term solution that would require altering the whole format of the system.
Not just a 1-time solution.

Because if this kind of thing happens again then there would be an easy solution for it. "challenger" ,or whatever it may be called, event.

Though if new potential top skill teams see this mess right now they might be very discuraged to even try. Such a great
---
For DR this is a matter of principle and we are probably hated for it. That is oke though.
We all have some kind of a principe. For example im coming from a principle of inovation and adaptation to our situation.
And i'd assume you're alluding to principles of continuation of a pattern for the sake of convinience or something simmilar to that.


Quick question: Why is it that almost every season a new team is formed and every time there is this discussion?

This is exactly why we need what im proposing or something like it. A long-term solution. And please if someone has a better one i'd love to hear it.
 
But so what? Deserving should depend on skill, not on grind.

Deserving has been done by individual players who have become skilled enough to deserve their spot as a team.
Not by a team of players that haven't put the time or effort the become as skilled - but instead just grinded their way into a division in which they have no chances of getting even 3rd spot. (Making them just some kind of a race for the best players to boost their stats so they can have higher score on aprikosenmanns excel spread sheet..)

So basically: A new team that is strong enough for a certain division challenges the weakest team. Who wins gets the spot. (This is in-between the BEAST seasons)
Deep thoughts!
 

Dextrus

Sergeant
You mean because we didn't win ? We went for it. We had so many trainings lined up with rm and dm. Then the game broke. I don't know exactly what you mean why we thought we would deserve? Not to mention that our first 2 games were rm and dm. We very likely would have stayed for the next season if the game didn't break.
Your team disbanded once you lost to a team you guys thought were beneath you.
...let me reiterate...
3 of your players quit during an active match while raging and throwing a **** show afterwards. And now the same players are back and demand a spot they gave up 3-4 months ago.

Because if this kind of thing happens again then there would be an easy solution for it. "challenger" ,or whatever it may be called, event.
I get this but your system needs to be more detailed because then teams could just endlessly challenge other teams. Plus you need more admins for this and stretches out the playing time even longer.

I would guess that most teams need the break in between the BEAST seasons.

And who wants to be an admin for such a challenger tournament now when you get constantly insulted by certain people from a certain team. You wouldnt, I wouldnt and the BEAST admins understandably dont want to either.

Though if new potential top skill teams see this mess right now they might be very discuraged to even try.
I mean AE played in one of the lowest divisions and they didnt throw a tantrum.

It has also been pointed out that admins try to actively put better teams into higher divisions when there are open slots. This coupled with fast promotions lets top teams reach their goals fast enough.

We all have some kind of a principe. For example im coming from a principle of inovation and adaptation to our situation.
And i'd assume you're alluding to principles of continuation of a pattern for the sake of convinience or something simmilar to that.

Oh yes it is for sake of convenience because the admins do this for free and they get bombarded with insults, unnecessary long "innovations" which have already been "innovations"invented.You just dont like the rules becausethey dont give in to your demands

Show me the person that actually has a problem with an extra week or 2 (Considering a BL update doesn't break the game).
I personally have a problem with that because while I like playing this game I have other stuff going on too and 7 weeks of sccrims etc takes up to much time and for particulary this case the last 2-3 weeks would fall into my vacation thus making me not able to help my team.
 

Lucon

Subforum Moderator
WBWF&SNWVC
I have already given advice on this matter. You can see it on the first page of the Suggestion channel, but I don't think there will be some positive results in this regard, so I didn't want to prolong it. @mrArgentum
 

OneOrThrEe

Regular
WB
Your team disbanded once you lost to a team you guys thought were beneath you.
...let me reiterate...
3 of your players quit during an active match while raging and throwing a **** show afterwards. And now the same players are back and demand a spot they gave up 3-4 months ago.
We have decided to stop playing the second the game became unplayable. If you think that we decided to disband only after we lost that DR match, then you're wrong there.
I get this but your system needs to be more detailed because then teams could just endlessly challenge other teams. Plus you need more admins for this and stretches out the playing time even longer.

I would guess that most teams need the break in between the BEAST seasons.

And who wants to be an admin for such a challenger tournament now when you get constantly insulted by certain people from a certain team. You wouldnt, I wouldnt and the BEAST admins understandably dont want to either.
There is obviously a need for some common sense in these challenges. First only newly formed teams would challenge. 2nd if a team is obviously too weak to challenge they can be denied. And the playing time is only a single game inbetween beasts for only the challenger and the bottom team that is getting challenged.
It wouldn't affect almost any other team ever.
Oh yes it is for sake of convenience because the admins do this for free and they get bombarded with insults, unnecessary long "innovations" which have already been "innovations"invented.You just dont like the rules becausethey dont give in to your demands
Admins getting insulted is wrong. And i do not agree with such behaviour.
Also im not claiming to have invented the wheel with my proposals. Maybe the word innovation isn't ideal. Maybe we can say.. transformation for the better?

Also "you just don't like the rules because they don't give in to your demands" .. Really ? No **** dextrus :grin:.
It doesn't suit WHEE or any potential team like it. If EA played it good for them. They went into an epic uneffective grind, submiting themselves to not-effective-enough system for months.

P.S. i'm not even going to play in this beast, even if WHEE get the spot in div A. Has nothing to do with this argument either. I've made up my mind months prior to all this
 

szymczak1503

Sergeant
Style makes a fight, If you are a new team and you win against team A, and team A wins against team B, it does not mean you would win against team B.
Other teams played N matches for 6 weeks to stay and prove themselves in division A. I don't think that playing only 1 match against the worst team of div A would be fair. You should play with the 3 worst teams, and if you win at least 2 out of 3 matches, you are allowed to be in division A. That removes the possibility of one's team being dropped because of one slip/bad day/style-incompatible match/important player missing.
Of course, there are disadvantages of such a rule, it put too much pressure on the worst teams to play more matches and manage their time better, but it lets other new teams promote quicker and it is more fair towards existing teams who already invested their time into playing.
 

OneOrThrEe

Regular
WB
You should play with the 3 worst teams, and if you win at least 2 out of 3 matches, you are allowed to be in division A.
Well i guess the first idea that came to my is what i wrote. It goes something like: The challenger team fights against the weakest team in div A and then for them to get their spot in that division they need to win at least 12-4(a stomp). Would be simpler than making half of the division play non-stop.
That removes the possibility of one's team being dropped because of one slip/bad day/style-incompatible match/important player missing.
I mean this game can be played at any time in-between signups open and close. Should be enough time for both teams to gather for 1 event.
Style makes a fight, If you are a new team and you win against team A, and team A wins against team B, it does not mean you would win against team B.
Are you speaking in general, or are you saying there is a division B team that can beat WHEE ?
 

szymczak1503

Sergeant
Are you speaking in general, or are you saying there is a division B team that can beat WHEE ?
I did not mean divisions when I talk team A/B, it is just the hyphotetical name of the team.
Let's modify it slightly to make it more clear:
Style makes a fight, If you are a new team and you win against team X (from div A), and team X wins against team Y (from div A), it does not mean you would win against team Y.
 

OneOrThrEe

Regular
WB
Style makes a fight, If you are a new team and you win against team X (from div A), and team X wins against team Y (from div A), it does not mean you would win against team Y.
What if you stomp the team X 12-0 and then team X beats team Y?
The chances do go up considerably i'd say :grin:
 

szymczak1503

Sergeant
What if you stomp the team X 12-0 and then team X beats team Y?
The chances do go up considerably i'd say :grin:
Of course they might, but it does not prove the case.
On a good day, a few teams from div B could probably beat the worst team from div A. But it should not give them a straight-up right to replace them. That is why multiple matches are played against different teams in all divisions. To cut down the random events/factors.

I agree that there should be a way for that WHEE team to join Division A, but it should be done in a way to make sure that these random factors are reduced as much as possible. I don't think only one match against the worst team is enough even if it is "EZ 12-0".
 

OneOrThrEe

Regular
WB
Of course they might, but it does not prove the case.
On a good day, a few teams from div B could probably beat the worst team from div A. But it should not give them a straight-up right to replace them. That is why multiple matches are played against different teams in all divisions. To cut down the random events/factors.

I agree that there should be a way for that WHEE team to join Division A, but it should be done in a way to make sure that these random factors are reduced as much as possible. I don't think only one match against the worst team is enough even if it is "EZ 12-0".
But could any non div A team beat the weakest div A team with such a large score difference ? I mean there is a good chance that the weakest div A team is just a div B team that got promoted last season.

I'm kinda assuming that that wouldn't be the case. But if you know any example of a serious game that prove this.

A problem i can imagine right now is for example:
A team is the weakest div A team without getting demoted ( so i guess 5th spot). And now it so happens that they got some new players in their roster making them much stronger, and no loger the weakest team (between the end of the season and end of signups)

So now the problem would be should they get challenged and possibly get pushed out to a lower division or should it be a different team ?

This does seem quite problematic.

But tbh i'm not going to bother with perfecting this potential change until there is at least some interest from the people that actually run beast.
Because even if i invent the most perfect system for this ever, if they don't care, it won't end up being used.

But i see your point yes.

Another way to do this would be what aprikosenmann mentioned. "a dynamic tournament"
I guess this would mean every beast things get shifted around a bit more manually so that there is greater balance within divisions. Instead of insisting on very rigid structure that creates unbalance i guess...
 

TheBard ✂

Salt Knight
Master Knight
So "manually balancing" is force demoting teams deemed unworthy? Let's not beat around the bush with it.
 

OneOrThrEe

Regular
WB
Well, yes.
Now i'm not sure how to demote teams if there is for example 3 weak teams. And let's say that the one that performed the worst in the previous season has upgraded player-wise.

But in the end of the day It would be better for balance within divisions.
 

Ikea Knight

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
I guess when we moved from 8 to 6 teams per division we made made the spots on div A rare.
Still for a new team to start in B is quite high and more than enough to place a new team.

I think placing a new team to A is a mistake.
 

mrArgentum

Sergeant
I guess when we moved from 8 to 6 teams per division we made made the spots on div A rare.
Still for a new team to start in B is quite high and more than enough to place a new team.

I think placing a new team to A is a mistake.

No it's not enough. You will never find even a single strong player in this game who don't mind to waste 2 months in division B. What means that you will never form new team for this tournament. You are living in illusions and can't imagine how things going in reality.
 

Koso

Squire
This went too far I think. Nearly everyone in this team played in division A. Also everyone knows that this team will do very good job on division A. This is absolute nonsense that you all are knowing this team is quite good enough for divA but, your rules are saying they can't in div A coz they are new team. However, you shouldn't remember this, these rules are in placed to protect players, teams, and divisions from getting unbalanced and injustices. If you forget why you set these rules and work by heart, this will be the biggest nonsense.
 
Ok so here is my proposal:

Paragraph 69:
If a new Superteam forms that clearly belongs to Division A they play a small qualification match with Seed 5 and 6. If the superteam cant beat both they get no spot. If win against both a decidermatch between Seed 5 and 6 determines the relegated.

A rule like this would support the formation of new superteams instead of hindering them.

@Aeronwen @TheBard ✂
 

Ikea Knight

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
There is no one stopping any teams from challenging RM or DM.
But if you want to do it within the structure of the tournament you need to follow the tournaments rules.

Quoting myself here since this thread and suggestion broadly have the same topic right now.
 
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