BEAST - Bannerlord Early Access Skirmish Tournament

[IceNoVa]

In the current system a properly strong team could rise to the top in just two, fairly short seasons. A fast-track straight to the top does not work in any competition, any event with a recurring schedule and promotion+relegation relies on a stable environment, as I said before.
It's pretty likely that this particular case starts with a Div B spot atleast, which would mean one season and you're up while you'd earn the spot as well. That is the best solution possible imo.

Also, the direct promotion is within the rules, here's the latest thread link.

 

[Gotha]

Anyway, just in theory: if Whee would join Div A (or Division size would go up to 7 / 8 ) it would be necessary to change the promotion / demotion system.
Since Div A would be stacked af and it's pretty obvious that every team would probably still stomp through Div B (especially even close losses can lead to getting demoted in that case).
So it should be #6 & #5 which both play playoffs instead of instant demotion for #6 and playoff for #5.

 

[mrArgentum]

In the current system a properly strong team could rise to the top in just two, fairly short seasons. A fast-track straight to the top does not work in any competition, any event with a recurring schedule and promotion+relegation relies on a stable environment, as I said before.
It's pretty likely that this particular case starts with a Div B spot atleast, which would mean one season and you're up while you'd earn the spot as well. That is the best solution possible imo.

Also, the direct promotion is within the rules, here's the latest thread link.

In which universe 2 months is a short season? If this would be a 1 day tournament like draft cup it wouldn't a problem. You are telling nonsense and don't want to see arguments just because you and your clanmates are biased towards us. If there would be another team on our place which you all like, you would find a compromise I'm pretty sure.

 

[OneOrThrEe]

Yes i understand that within the current ruleset and structure it is as it is right now.

What i'm pointing towards is a possibility for an upgrade to this current system where a team that is strong enough for a division can be placed within it without grind.

Can you explain to me in which way would adding a 7th team and changing the structure in such way actually disrupt this stable envirnoment you speak of ?

Anyway, just in theory: if Whee would join Div A (or Division size would go up to 7 / 8 ) it would be necessary to change the promotion / demotion system.
Since Div A would be stacked af and it's pretty obvious that every team would probably still stomp through Div B (especially even close losses can lead to getting demoted in that case).
So it should be #6 & #5 which both play playoffs instead of instant demotion for #6 and playoff for #5.

I really don't see why a div B team should be able to get a promotion without going against losing team of div A. It makes no sense to me. If they're weaker than the weakest team in A division. They don't "deserve" the promotion.
It messess with balance and stability more than 7th(worthy) team i'm sure.

So i guess i agree with what you're alluding to.

 

[mrArgentum]

Anyway, just in theory: if Whee would join Div A (or Division size would go up to 7 / 8 ) it would be necessary to change the promotion / demotion system.

Why not change it? If i understand system correctly, team from div A can go down to div B WITHOUT playing a match even if this particularly team are stronger than team which went up. This system just bad then and should be reworked.

 

[Gotha]

I am not saying it should not be changed, I am just saying if this happens it has to be changed. I am not trying to make a pro / con against your team, I just want everyone not to forget about this.

 

[Firunien]

@OneOrThrEe Well i am really happy with the format of the tournament, you play for 5 weeks ( some people have 6) and you can have a break after that. Of course it can be changed, but for it to make sense in the bigger picture all divisions should be changed to the same size or divisions have different playtimes.

@mrArgentum
well it is a league system thats why last place gets you demoted, which is totally valid, the season are so short its not like forever

 

[mrArgentum]

which is totally valid

No it's not valid. How the fact that weaker team goes in higher division than stronger team can be considered as "valid"? It's literally goes against the pillars of competition and a common sense itself

 

[OneOrThrEe]

Well i am really happy with the format of the tournament, you play for 5 weeks ( some people have 6) and you can have a break after that. Of course it can be changed, but for it to make sense in the bigger picture all divisions should be changed to the same size or divisions have different playtimes.

Why the insistance that divisions must be of the same size? Even if such insistance brings huge imbalance between teams within divisions. So what if there is a week + or - in lenght of division match duration.

Also

well it is a league system thats why last place gets you demoted, which is totally valid, the season are so short its not like forever

It's valid in some raw logic devoid of reason. Because this makes : weaker team promoted, stronger team demoted. Which creates further imbalance.

 

[Firunien]

No it's not valid. How the fact that weaker team goes in higher division than stronger team can be considered as "valid"? It's literally goes against the pillars of competition and a common sense itself

Because there they can get better and learn, and they earned it ? I dont get it, did none of you watch any league in any other sport or something ?

@OneOrThrEe

Because this league is supposed to give opportunity to all teams to play, which means that they get more or less enough playtime over a season. This is just opening a can of worms..

This is not a ladder for ranking, the promotion and demotion is part of a league, i wouldnt even care if there is another playoff for that, i just think its unneccesary.

 

[mrArgentum]

Because there they can get better and learn, and they earned it ?

How did they earn it if they didn't prove that they stronger than team which place they are taking?

 

[Wegnas]

wait so why arent every new team start from playing in Div E ?

 

[OneOrThrEe]

Because there they can get better and learn, and they earned it ? I dont get it, did none of you watch any league in any other sport or something ?

Well getting better and learning is mostly done in training. Not so much in getting stomped.
I don't rly watch sports but i'd assume that those leagues are either much bigger or the difference between losing team of higher division isn't as great as it might be here. Not sure i might be wrong here.

wait so why arent every new team start from playing in Div E ?

Because there usually is some team that disbands and leaves an empty spot i guess

 

[Firunien]

wait so why arent every new team start from playing in Div E ?

Because the admins have been nice and put teams into empty slots where teams left.

 

[Fade]

Stop acting like it is a elite e-sport tournament. We are a few people trying to enjoy this "EARLY ACCESS" game. I am just shocked just bunch of dudes talking about rules and sh*t. And i still can't understand how 7 team division A breaks the whole system. This is too much nonsense.

 

[IceNoVa]

In which universe 2 months is a short season? If this would be a 1 day tournament like draft cup it wouldn't a problem. You are telling nonsense and don't want to see arguments just because you and your clanmates are biased towards us. If there would be another team on our place which you all like, you would find a compromise I'm pretty sure.

I already told you that I agree that you guys have a shot at winning and generally performing well in Div A. I honestly do not care if you play in this tournament or in which division you are placed in.
The only thing that is of any relevance in this case is that no team, regardless of who they think they are, should get an exception to the rules to play wherever they please.
You're welcome to get a spot if there is an open one, but don't change the rules just because you don't like them.

The reason I disagree with you and your demands is simply that BEAST provides some stability to the scene, a place for growth to new teams. And any team that rather creates shortcut instead of taking those that are already in place for them is only pushing for a self-entitled agenda that is contrary to the principle of this competition.
Want to play strong teams, go for a scrim. Want to play in BEAST, play by BEAST rules.

 

[Fade]

I already told you that I agree that you guys have a shot at winning and generally performing well in Div A. I honestly do not care if you play in this tournament or in which division you are placed in.
The only thing that is of any relevance in this case is that no team, regardless of who they think they are, should get an exception to the rules to play wherever they please.
You're welcome to get a spot if there is an open one, but don't change the rules just because you don't like them.

The reason I disagree with you and your demands is simply that BEAST provides some stability to the scene, a place for growth to new teams. And any team that rather creates shortcut instead of taking those that are already in place for them is only pushing for a self-entitled agenda that is contrary to the principle of this competition.
Want to play strong teams, go for a scrim. Want to play in BEAST, play by BEAST rules.

Dude, you are hilarious xD There is no connection between things you say and us playing in div a. I can't understand how we destabilize the tourney and prevent teams growing?

 

[mrArgentum]

a place for growth to new teams.

Are you kidding or trolling? The things you are doing atm literally goes against the idea of "place for growth to new teams".

 

[OneOrThrEe]

The reason I disagree with you and your demands is simply that BEAST provides some stability to the scene, a place for growth to new teams. And any team that rather creates shortcut instead of taking those that are already in place for them is only pushing for a self-entitled agenda that is contrary to the principle of this competition.

Yes it gives teams a chance to grow. ( But not in an optimal manner - and as i said the real team growth is not done in competition, in BL or anywhere else)
But what is a team? It's a group of players under the same clan tag.
So now, here, you have a group of players with thousands of hours collectively that have played in many different other clans previously (basically all div A) that have come together to form a new team.

And this new team poses a challenge for all other div A teams.

If by BEAST provides stability to the scene you mean BEAST provides a RM/DM finale with other teams just kinda going for 3rd spot then YES! Most definitely it provides that kind of stability.

You here now have a choice.

1. Stick to boring rigid rules that if bent wouldn't affect anyones enjoyement of the BEAST.

2. Bend the rules that you've created so that the tournament that you're hosting can be more fun and the end result would be less predictable. ( Will be fun for anyone except maybe the weakest team that might end up in div B because a much stronger team has come in their place)

This whole thing literally reminds me of monarchy and how people that inherit things from their families stay in power even if they don't truly have what it takes to keep that power.
When now on the contrary you have a team that most definitely has what it takes to be in div A but can't because of these not-effective-enough rules(That if were to be bent wouldn't cause any actual damage to the BEAST (except maybe some admins ego, who knows).

 

[IceNoVa]

Are you kidding or trolling? The things you are doing atm literally goes against the idea of "place for growth to new teams".

You just want an exception to the rules and special treatment. Don't expect people to support that.
Or in the words of your team mate

---

(...)

1. I did not create the rules of this tournament or even contributed to them in a major way.
2. This should remind you more of literally any sport that is performed in leagues.

Last point: Sign-ups are still open. There is no point in arguing about what-ifs at the moment. If there is an open spot, the admins may award it to you. They may not. Eitherway is fine. Wait for sign-ups to close, see what potential openings there are, hope for one of those.