BEAST - Bannerlord Early Access Skirmish Tournament

BEAST is the first Bannerlord Skirmish tournament in Europe.

Quick Overview

Category
Bannerlord
Language
English (UK)
Total members
244
Total events
0
Total discussions
192

Tournament staff is not allowing new strong teams to form.

Users who are viewing this thread

Status
Not open for further replies.

mrArgentum

Sergeant
We all know that every BEAST comes down to RM - DM finals. They even wanted to create an extra "S" division just for them. Now we've formed new v strong team which has a good chance to win the BEAST. The main idea of separation into divisions was proper competition. To let teams have worthy opponents. It is obvious for everyone that skilled players who were always playing in div A would never play in lower divisions. So by rejecting our team from playing in div A, you basically don't even let us to thrive as a team. And according to this precedent, new strong teams will never form in this game. Because you can't expect that anyone would want to wait 3-8 months (e.g they climb from the lowest division) until they'll have a chance to actually play in division that they deserved playing in from the v beginning. You also have to be realistic and realize that teams from lower divisions which already exist will never even come close to RM's/DM's level. So you will always have RM/DM finale and what the point of this tournament then? If other teams don't have a chance to even challenge them. The solution is pretty simple and won't ruin anything for anyone. Add an additional 7th team into division A. We already asked clan leaders of div A and most of them (4 out of 6) agreed to play additional 7th week just to let us in. We can prove it if you want. If anyone has at least a tiny speck of doubt that our team isn't competent to play in division A, we already won against some division A clans and score was 12 2 and 12 1. If you need proofs i can post them screenshots. Merely use common sense and follow the idea of competition and let us play in division A so we all can have the most exhilarating BEAST out of them all with more than two competent teams.
 
Last edited:

Fade

Veteran
We all know that every BEAST comes down to RM - DM finals. They even wanted to create an extra "S" division just for them. Now we've formed new v strong team which has a good chance to win the BEAST. The main idea of separation into divisions was proper competition. To let teams have worthy opponents. It is obvious for everyone that skilled players who were always playing in div A would never play in lower divisions. So by rejecting our team from playing in div A, you basically don't even let us to thrive as a team. And according to this precedent, new strong teams will never form in this game. Because you can't expect that anyone would want to wait 3-8 months (e.g they climb from the lowest division) until they'll have a chance to actually play in division that they deserved playing in from the v beginning. You also have to be realistic and realize that teams from lower divisions which already exist will never even come close to RM's/DM's level. So you will always have RM/DM finale and what the point of this tournament then? If other teams don't have a chance to even challenge them. The solution is pretty simple and won't ruin anything for anyone. Add an additional 7th team into division A. We already asked clan leaders of div A and most of them (4 out of 6) agreed to play additional 7th week just to let us in. We can prove it if you want. If anyone has at least a tiny speck of doubt that our team isn't competent to play in division A, we already won against some division A clans and score was 12 2 and 12 1. If you need proofs i can post them screenshots. Merely use common sense and follow the idea of competition and let us play in division A so we all can have the most exhilarating BEAST out of them all with more than two competent teams.
n0 yoU haBe t0 eaRn thE Sp0t fiRsT ehehehe
 
Ok so in my mind it's very simple..
Divisions exist so that teams with simmilar skill can go against each other to have a (relatively) balanced games.
We now have a new team that has formed that is most definitely stronger than some of the div A teams..

So now you could say: What right do you have to enter straight into div A if you haven't "worked your way up the ladder as a team". To that i would say it's ok that some teams work their way up to division A from lower divisions and get a much larger challenge from it. But it doesn't make sense that that would be the only way to end up in division A.

In other words: Simply by mere virtue of WHEE being stronger than most div A teams they should have a place in that division.

There is no reason why divisions have to have a hard cap. of the number of teams participating in them, right ?

The alternative ofc being. Force WHEE (Or any newly formed team that is as strong or stronger(impossible)) to spend a 1-2 months just "stomping noobs" so that they can finally get to div A..

Divisions are there to make BEAST more balanced, not to force an arbitrary system that actually disrupts the balance. Right ?

p.s. please don't listen to Sindarin (fade)- he is just a typical goblin
 
Well as much as my neutral side thinks the idea is overall stupid, I think that having another good team in A makes sense. Especially if WEE actually forms putting it in any division other than A will make it unfair for that division. We are not letting them play for the sake of "rules" and "tournament stability", yet each BEAST due to "stability of the game" more and more people are quiting. Also for quite some time already anyone joining A is just going for a hell road rather than enjoyable season.

That's my input now I wait for my bribe money.
 

Koso

Squire
For most of them they should earn the spot of Division A. However, it would be quite unfair to other teams and for this team. This team will bored of stomping them for others it is a shame that one team will broke the whole division. Therefore this comes to minds; 7 Team for division A or Division A promoted which is DoF, they should match. This also unfair because DoF already earned a place from Division A. Therefore the only reasonable solution about this make Division A 7 teams or WHEE cant join the tournament. I personally support WHEE should be in Div A.
 
The only reason why i could see this very reasonable request being denied is because some of (SOME of) WHEE members are being very immature and are just asking to be turned down with their behaviour.

Either way, depending on how much we let our emotions affect the final decision of this situation, we can have effective or ineffective compromises.. or of course a shutdown.
 

IceNoVa

The Kaiser
Global Moderator
WBM&BVCNWWF&S
A recurring tournament with promotion and relegation is a tricky thing to host and keep running for a long.
They work best in stable environments, which this community is evidently not. However, you cannot just make things up as go along and create exceptions or create walkarounds/loopholes, just because some people feel entitled to playing in a certain division.

Just to clarify, because I know people think that is the only thing that matters: Sure, you've got a strong squad and a shot at winning, I agree. But there's no evidence for an opening in the division as of today, so wait for the sign ups to end first. You cannot take a spot that isn't open and if the admins give in and create a new spot just for this mess, you can rest assured they'll be rightly called out for a lack of integrity and sense of principle. On that note, they've been better than that so far, so I'll be eager to see what they decide on in this case, once the sign-ups are closed.

On your particular point of "play against strong teams". If you want to play against strong enemies, go for a clanwar. If you want to participate in a competition, accept the rules of that competition. Contribute to the longevity and stability of the scene rather than creating threads to push demands that bear no foundation other than "we're a strong squad". You are entitled to nothing and encouraged to
eaRn thE Sp0t fiRsT
even if you feel like that is beneath you. Everyone else did, there should be no exceptions.
 

mrArgentum

Sergeant
A recurring tournament with promotion and relegation is a tricky thing to host and keep running for a long.
They work best in stable environments, which this community is evidently not. However, you cannot just make things up as go along and create exceptions or create walkarounds/loopholes, just because some people feel entitled to playing in a certain division.

Just to clarify, because I know people think that is the only thing that matters: Sure, you've got a strong squad and a shot at winning, I agree. But there's no evidence for an opening in the division as of today, so wait for the sign ups to end first. You cannot take a spot that isn't open and if the admins give in and create a new spot just for this mess, you can rest assured they'll be rightly called out for a lack of integrity and sense of principle. On that note, they've been better than that so far, so I'll be eager to see what they decide on in this case, once the sign-ups are closed.

On your particular point of "play against strong teams". If you want to play against strong enemies, go for a clanwar. If you want to participate in a competition, accept the rules of that competition. Contribute to the longevity and stability of the scene rather than creating threads to push demands that bear no foundation other than "we're a strong squad". You are entitled to nothing and encouraged to

even if you feel like that is beneath you. Everyone else did, there should be no exceptions.

Well, from your point of view, how are you imagining new strong team joining tournament?


even if you feel like that is beneath you. Everyone else did, there should be no exceptions.

In div A only div and dof was playing in lower division. All others was in A from the beginning.
 
On your particular point of "play against strong teams". If you want to play against strong enemies, go for a clanwar. If you want to participate in a competition, accept the rules of that competition. Contribute to the longevity and stability of the scene rather than creating threads to push demands that bear no foundation other than "we're a strong squad". You are entitled to nothing and encouraged to
Well alirght. A fair point. But as you may know. Rules work best when they're applied to large scale events or general happenings. And they can, and in fact, do worsen smaller scale events when they are too rigid and constraining.
For example: You're crossing a trafic light as a pedestrian irl. Now if there is trafic and cars are filling the street. It would be very unwise to not follow the rules. Because it would negatively affect everyone.

Then on the other hand: If the roads are empty and you got a red light on your pedestrian crossing. Do you cross even though it's literally empty and there are no car sounds anywhere at all ? Any reasonable person would cross..

Beast is like the latter example. Where following the rules 100% strictly is simply not effective enough compared to some rule bending.

We're a very small community and everyone knows everyone. There is no need to make everything "dry". And have the mindset of rules>micromenagment reason.

So maybe instead of making it so that rules HAVE TO be followed perfectly. Even though one might aruge- they're not perfect. We'd instead improve our ruleset over time as we encounter unforseen circumstances (such as this one? ) ?
 

Gotha

Adimi h.c.
Baron
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
A general question:
If Div A would be stacked with only really good teams, and even the worst team would stomp Div B anyway, there would also be no point in demoting them? Since it's the same argumentation, isn't it?
Like I am asking in general if it would make sense to reconsider some rules about joing / getting demoted from Div A ? Especially IF more stronger teams will form?
 
A general question:
If Div A would be stacked with only really good teams, and even the worst team would stomp Div B anyway, there would also be no point in demoting them? Since it's the same argumentation, isn't it?
Like I am asking in general if it would make sense to reconsider some rules about joing / getting demoted from Div A ? Especially IF more stronger teams will form?
I'm not even sure how exactly promotion/demotion works.
But personally i'd have losing team of A and winning team of B fight for the A spot.
 

mrArgentum

Sergeant
A general question:
If Div A would be stacked with only really good teams, and even the worst team would stomp Div B anyway, there would also be no point in demoting them? Since it's the same argumentation, isn't it?
Like I am asking in general if it would make sense to reconsider some rules about joing / getting demoted from Div A ? Especially IF more stronger teams will form?

Worst team from div A are playing demotion match isn't it? So if they really can stomp ANY div B team, they won't demote.
And this is not actually the case in this particularly situation since our team are stronger than most div A teams, I'm not even talking about B
 

Gotha

Adimi h.c.
Baron
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
I'm not even sure how exactly promotion/demotion works.
But personally i'd have losing team of A and winning team of B fight for the A spot.
If I remember it right #6 will get demoted and #5 has to play a playoff match to prevent demotion.
 

IceNoVa

The Kaiser
Global Moderator
WBM&BVCNWWF&S
Well, from your point of view, how are you imagining new strong team joining tournament?

In div A only div and dof was playing in lower division. All others was in A from the beginning.
Your second point first: The founding teams were placed upon their own wish and have hence defended their spots.

Regarding how I imagine new strong teams joining:
Placers, pre-season matches to earn an open spot.
That was discarded though, as it probably will not fit the admin timeline. So they will stick to the past course of action, which was to put presumably strong squads, upon their request, in open spots at higher divisions. Currently there are none, at the moment teams simply sign up to play.
New teams should be asked if they want to go higher, if possible. What spot they get is up to the admins then, since that is how the current system works. It's not perfect, but there is no perfect system out there, not in a volatile environment as the competitive Bannerlord scene.

On another note: Adding a team to one division must mean that all divisions are increased by one team. It was downsized just recently from 8 to 6, so going from 6 to 7 (which would entail a one week break) seems unlikely. The competition must remain transparent and equal in rules and opportunity as possible.
 

mrArgentum

Sergeant
Your second point first: The founding teams were placed upon their own wish and have hence defended their spots.

Regarding how I imagine new strong teams joining:
Placers, pre-season matches to earn an open spot.
That was discarded though, as it probably will not fit the admin timeline. So they will stick to the past course of action, which was to put presumably strong squads, upon their request, in open spots at higher divisions. Currently there are none, at the moment teams simply sign up to play.
New teams should be asked if they want to go higher, if possible. What spot they get is up to the admins then, since that is how the current system works. It's not perfect, but there is no perfect system out there, not in a volatile environment as the competitive Bannerlord scene.

On another note: Adding a team to one division must mean that all divisions are increased by one team. It was downsized just recently from 8 to 6, so going from 6 to 7 (which would entail a one week break) seems unlikely. The competition must remain transparent and equal in rules and opportunity as possible.

So as you said by yourself there is actually NO a working system how new STRONG teams can join the competition at the moment. Basically it means that new teams (i mean strong ones ofc) are not allowed to form at all at this condition of rules. It means that rules must be reformed. And let's make this case as a precedent for future ones. We need a working system how newformed teams can join division which matches their level. For example, newformed team can challenge team from a division they interested in for a promotion match or something else (newformed team must be obviously strong ofc).
Admins of tournament should develop a working system coz at the moment it's working only for teams which already exist.
 

Firunien

Grandmaster Knight
I'm not even sure how exactly promotion/demotion works.
But personally i'd have losing team of A and winning team of B fight for the A spot.
Lowest gets demoted from A and top from B gets up, there even is a rule for fast relegation ( which gets ignored by Argentum), which means the top of C can fight A 5th for a division A spot.
 

mrArgentum

Sergeant
Lowest gets demoted from A and top from B gets up, there even is a rule for fast relegation ( which gets ignored by Argentum), which means the top of C can fight A 5th for a division A spot.

You mean they are demoting and promoting without match? This is wrong then. How can we know that lowest div A team is weaker than higher div B without match? In a good working system there must NO be the cases when weaker team goes in higher division than stronger team.
 
Ok so since i've just joined this conversation an hour ago.
Lemme see if i actually am getting this right..

Everyone agrees that WHEE are strong enough to join A div. BUT the problems are:

1. No available spot in the current structure of the tournament.
2. NO possible way to make "space" or adapt the tournament structure for them without some other div A team stepping down
- Like for example 7 teams in A div is unnaceptable? ( make 1 more team asap ples)


Is there really no solution to this?

Oh and ofc. 3. WHEE not willing to play in div B because 12-0 with low effort is not fun for them.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom