SP - General Too many women on the battlefield!

[Mikal Manfriedson]

I think the real problem is people who think a certain point of view is the only viable and correct. We are taught, and in some countries first-handedly experienced that dictatorship is a bad idea and yet we fail to understand the limitations of democracy as well. Democracy also means delegating the decision-making of all to elected leaders. And if we elect leaders not knowledgeable in the fields we elect them for - this is on us, ain't it? Or they will call advisors for help and we don't object, do we?

Because we can reach agreement that none can simultaneously work for one's living AND decide every petty decision made in the country on different levels. We need to be aware of the point where ideology clashes with reality, logic, science and the ability to execute said ideology to the benefit of man. (And either by letter or in spiritu)

Discussions like these tend to chase their own tails because both parties have neutrally perceived valid arguments but because of ideological reasons none would give in to a good argument from the other side because it comes from the wrong side and not because it is wrong.

I am bored about this. Could we return to the original topic? There was something about AI putting female clan members as army leaders...
- without proper wargear and/or martial training (which is bad and should be mitigated)
- with death enabled (which would also be bad for male members)
- with a kind of "dynasty system" in place to keep a clan in the game because it produces heirs that will grow up and take over. Now here is the logic: mechanic-wise you need a male and female character and the condition "married" to produce offspring in the game. I guess after some time, the female will get the condition "pregnant" and will deliver a child later. Is it a good idea for a pregnant woman to be on a battlefield? So should we have a mechanism, that will forbid pregnant women to join fights? Frankly, I have yet to come to meet a woman that would tell me fighting while pregnant is a good idea and would feel oppressed, if would forbid here participating in such activities - she wouldn't do it anyways.

That said: do we perceive any problems gamewise (clans dying out) because of the status quo and should this be fixed in whatever way? Which way would be logical for the setting?

 

[Grank]

Democracy also means delegating the decision-making of all to elected leaders.
[...]
Discussions like these tend to chase their own tails because both parties have neutrally perceived valid arguments but because of ideological reasons none would give in to a good argument from the other side because it comes from the wrong side and not because it is wrong.

Yes that's why I find it amusing. Oftentimes people are so clouded by ideas and definitions that they can't see reality, like not realizing that they in fact are not involved in every single decision making in the gov.

That said: do we perceive any problems gamewise (clans dying out) because of the status quo and should this be fixed in whatever way? Which way would be logical for the setting?

There are several problems that cause it, and also ways to fix each of them. For example, they could adjust the raw death rate. Combine that with making sure every lord gets proper equipment, and it will play out better. However, those two solutions alone wouldn't completely fix the problem of clans dying out too easily. They will just slow it down slightly.

They could write an AI that works around a "survival priority" number on each lord, and try to keep high-priority lords away from battle to keep the clans from dying out. It will still be possible to kill off an entire clan, but it would require active player intervention (which is the ideal balance for a sandbox). The difficult part will be deciding that number.

 

[Tryvenyal]

There was something about AI putting female clan members as army leaders...
- without proper wargear and/or martial training (which is bad and should be mitigated)

This... without the word "female" and this discussion would been .. alot shorter and less polariced.

 

[Mikal Manfriedson]

@Tryvenyal: I agree - this is a general problem that clan members lead parties who are not suitable to the task in terms of training, ability and wargear. I guess one reason COULD be, that every male character has a civillian clothing/war clothing as default for the AI nobles. I do not know whether this is true for all women depicted in the game. Rhagea has armor and wargear, Ira as well, but are there NPCs out there lacking wargear?

 

[Tryvenyal]

There are several problems that cause it, and also ways to fix each of them. For example, they could adjust the raw death rate. Combine that with making sure every lord gets proper equipment, and it will play out better. However, those two solutions alone wouldn't completely fix the problem of clans dying out too easily. They will just slow it down slightly.

• Make armour matter more. Lords fallen in battle with high tier armour should rarely die. Armour prio 1 is to make less charachters die from their injureies(How to handle troops are another discussion)
• Make AI avoid and escape more battles. Both on map, smaller parties should generally be faster than bigger ones(Except Rocket-khuzait ofc). Bigger armies are then more a siege or siege-breaking tool. Clashes are more between equal-size armies
• Make lords AI in battles more defesive and tie them to right unit-group.
• Make AI smarter when selecting a new warlord. And gear them to a proper level.
• If death is enabled, there should be a risk in all battles, even simulated battles.

 

[Tryvenyal]

I agree - this is a general problem that clan members lead parties who are not suitable to the task in terms of training, ability and wargear. I guess one reason COULD be, that every male character has a civillian clothing/war clothing as default for the AI nobles. I do not know whether this is true for all women depicted in the game. Rhagea has armor and wargear, Ira as well, but are there NPCs out there lacking wargear

I think bug is first when new children grow up.

 

[Mikal Manfriedson]

So they start with zero skill and no wargear then with the AI unable to change this, huh? Would make sense.

 

[Demoulius]

I think the problem OP mentions isent so much the fact theyre ladies but that they are running around in civilain clothes vs running around in armor. Must say I havent spotted it myself, only ladies I saw were wearing better armor and gear then I was, but the ones noted as nobles couldnt fight to save their lives. Whene you inspect them they also dont have any combat skills. After combat the screen where you decide to capture them or not you can even say 'you arent a warrior. You are free to go' implying that theyre different from combat nobles.

And with deaths activated that can be a problem because you need both men and ladies to make babies and if all the ladies die in battle then uh...yeah.... Thats a problem.

That said, if theyre not warriors; then why are they leading men into battle?

 

[Grank]

I agree - this is a general problem that clan members lead parties who are not suitable to the task in terms of training, ability and wargear. I guess one reason COULD be, that every male character has a civillian clothing/war clothing as default for the AI nobles. I do not know whether this is true for all women depicted in the game. Rhagea has armor and wargear, Ira as well, but are there NPCs out there lacking wargear?

The thing is, martial skills such as those related to Vigor, Control and Endurace are the only ones that help a lord's survival in player-involved combat. Simulated combat is governed by Tactics skill under the Intelligence attribute, and Tactics also boost troops with formation buffs.

However, not all lords should be skilled in both fighting and tactics. That would be too OP. It's normal, and more interesting, to have different types of lords. Like this guy is a warrior while that other guy is a tactician.

It also comes back to the fact that being involved in a battle at all is already risky, so it's best to control the lord's decision to go into battle or not. It could be programmed and would be a more stable solution. For example, the heir to the clan would not participate in battle if he has no siblings and children.

I think the problem OP mentions isent so much the fact theyre ladies but that they are running around in civilain clothes vs running around in armor. Must say I havent spotted it myself, only ladies I saw were wearing better armor and gear then I was, but the ones noted as nobles couldnt fight to save their lives.

Nobody runs in civilian clothes outside of settlements. What people mean is that some women don't wear helmets in battle. I don't remember if I have seen any in the current patch, to be honest.

I married Abagai as a Khuzait, and she's equipped with helmet and even a shield. She doesn't wear top tier super expensive armor, but that's because she's one of the younger minor lords.

 

[Apocal]

Rhagea has armor and wargear, Ira as well, but are there NPCs out there lacking wargear?

There was a bug (actually just someone forgetting to define equipment sets, oops) where some nobles would spawn naked in battle. After that, they either misunderstood the issue or just didn't realize that certain sets were civilian clothing, because the first "fix" made it so they'd spawn in like tavern clothes with no weapons.

Other than that though, even the non-combatants nobles have war gear.

 

[Salus]

There aren’t even sword sisters in the game.

Yeah, if you wanted to make an all-female army it would come from peasants rescued and their stats suuuck.

 

[five bucks]

Yeah, if you wanted to make an all-female army it would come from peasants rescued and their stats suuuck.

Bring back player-recruitable sword sisters, and reduce the proportion of female generals (but keep some in each faction). Everyone wins.

 

[ArturMorhghain]

Yeah, if you wanted to make an all-female army it would come from peasants rescued and their stats suuuck.

Just like the peasant-based legionnai...oh. Well, that’s awkward.

 

[Salus]

Just like the peasant-based legionnai...oh. Well, that’s awkward.

I was thinking Ghaddafi but that works.

Tbh tonight I played and recruited a She-wolf and for some reason she had a fat stack of stat points to allocate. I made her fast and gave her two-handed and polearm and every bandit raid is just her running from group to group and game ending them. The rest of us just watch.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

anime protagonist

 

[Spyware]

Oh hell yeah there's waaay too many female lords running around, it even breaks canon in my opinion since Mount & Blade: Warband goes out of its way to explicitly state that female lords ARE a rarity(improbable but not impossible), fantasy or not.

If it wants to be consistent with the old game, it needs to tone down on Captain Marvels running around, especially the 2nd or 3rd generation who are, as you say, wearing dresses, unmounted and tries to punch as all to death.