too many unit types for battle

[ddrake]

Hi,
maybe this problem has been brought to mod developers' attention already but the (few) mods i tried were afflicted by this.
Basically all new mods throw in the game many new unit types to make things more interesting. Problem is that when you join a battle where too many different unit types are present battle settings will be screwed up.
Example from NE just happened to me:
several Nord lords attacking a Kerghit lord with 90 men. Overall number of Nord units about 500.
I join in with my 120 men and battle system says we have 118 men fit for battle while the enemy has 90! 
(Mind that am not talking about battlesize and tactics influence!)

Good way to screw tacticts and strategies!
Obviously no one is going to change existing mods to address this but wouldn't it be better to consider game limits when planning a mod?
Less unit types (just as many as in native work fine) would solve this.

What do you think?

 

[Ruthven]

Hi,
maybe this problem has been brought to mod developers' attention already but the (few) mods i tries were afflicted by this.
Basically all new mods throw in the game many new unit types to make things more interesting. Problem is that when you join a battle where too many different unit types are present battle settings will be screwed up.
Example from NE just happened to me:
several Nord lords attacking a Kerghit lord with 90 men. Overall number of nord units about 500.
I join in with my 120 men and battle system says we have 118 men fit for battle while the enemy has 90! 

Good way to screw tacticts and strategies!
Obviously no one is going to change existing mods to address this but wouldn't it be better to consider game limits when planning a mod?
Less unit types (just as many as in native work fine) would solve this.

What do you think?

The bug's from Native and is present in Native, so who gives a damn?

 

[ddrake]

less unit types in mod => the problem is not so big
is that simple enough?

 

[Ruthven]

You're missing a very big point though, namely, less units in mod = less units in mod.

 

[ddrake]

Well, more units in a mod don't make it necessarily better.
Knowing the limits of the game system a developer should think twice before adding a unit: is it really necessary? does it really add to the game?
In NE for instance you find a number of merc units.
Like mercenary Longbow AND mercenary longbowman. Mercenary captain and merc. female captain and so on. Is it really needed? The player will likely end up using less than a dozen units anyway.
Lords parties instead will be bloated with units that will  never show on the battlefield and will send battle system go cookooo banana 

 

[megalink]

dude you gotta play other mods, though i never played NE more troops types means a more variety of troops which is better. if you dont want a lot of different troops then just dont recruit or upgrade into them, and in the mods ive played(which is a lot) ive never really seen useless troop types. 

 

[Servitor]

I dislike overly huge troop trees... Doesn't stop me from enjoying the mods though. 

 

[ddrake]

dude you gotta play other mods, though i never played NE more troops types means a more variety of troops which is better. if you dont want a lot of different troops then just dont recruit or upgrade into them, and in the mods ive played(which is a lot) ive never really seen useless troop types.

As stated above the problem is not as much due to player troops (one can decide how many different units have) but more to Lord parties which tend to have a number of different units (especially after they recruit prisoners).
Although I refer to NE this affects all mods with huge troop trees.
Example:
notation: total troop number / unit types
Nords: 900 / 32
Rhodocks: 83 / 19
I join with Nords with three different party compositions:
1)
Me: 1 / 1
Nords: 900 / 32
Rhodocks: 83 / 19
---
Us: 837
Enemy: 83

2)
Me: 16 / 16
Nords: 900 / 32
Rhodocks: 83 / 19
---
Us: 658
Enemy: 83

3)
Me: 105 / 28
Nords: 900 / 32
Rhodocks: 83 / 19
---
Us: 267
Enemy: 83

There's clearly a problem here 
In an ideal world the game would be able to manage infinite different troops. Since it doesn't I think it is something developers should keep in mind when planning a mod.

P.S. I've seen lots of useless troops. Just to name one from Native: Manhunters! 

 

[Ruthven]

The game is meant to support as many troops as you bloody well want to find in a battle, the bug you're getting is just that, a bug. Not a limitation, a bug.

 

[thick1988]

I'm not gonna lie, I also dislike overly large troop trees. I like to keep it simple.

 

[ddrake]

The game is meant to support as many troops as you bloody well want to find in a battle, the bug you're getting is just that, a bug. Not a limitation, a bug.

Hi,
if you mean that the bug is on the 'to fix' list and a patch is going to be released sooner or later than that is good news and there will be much rejoycing. Do you have news of any patches being worked on? I don't, but am not much on the forums.

If the bug is there to stay then devs should consider this limit when putting in new units.

regards

 

[vadermath]

The devs will never actually put more limitations on the game's modding, since it's one of the selling points of the game. So no, that'll probably never happen.

 

[ddrake]

The devs will never actually put more limitations on the game's modding, since it's one of the selling points of the game. So no, that'll probably never happen.

what do you mean?

 

[vadermath]

That the developers won't limit the number of different troops a modder can put into the game

 

[EvolutiveBrain]

No limit to the mods, just NO! And more troop trees is better, since once one get to the point of leveling to higher numbers, past lvl 29-32 or so, it's nice to see your old partie members having a new upgrade available, after a long time aquiring experience that is. And again, no mod limitations, NO!!!

 

[FrisianDude]

I dislike overly huge troop trees... Doesn't stop me from enjoying the mods though. 

I've got, in my unfinished mod, relatively small troop trees but I've probably got more than twenty of them. Maybe OP simply ought to stick with the troops of a single faction.

 

[Servitor]

I've got, in my unfinished personal  mod, very small troops trees. Not more than 6 different soldiers per faction. Basically a recruit tier, 2 footman, 1 archer, 1 horseman. And one extra of the type that the faction is known for. (Swadian has a Knight, Vaegir a Marksman, Nords a Huskarl) I used to have a mod a-la age of empires, where all factions use the same troop, with some branches cut off and one unique unit per faction. This was a bit hard to balance though, so gave up on it.

 

[ddrake]

LOL! Who ever asked for limitations to be inserted in the game??!! 
please, re-read posts.

Nice to hear from mod developers! 

@FrisianDude: actually no. Sticking with troops of just one faction doesn't help. As stated above the problem is with lords. Once they enlist former captives their parties get bloated with a number of different units in mods with many different unit types.
So even if you join in with 8 companion the number of allied troops will be severely cut.

@Servitor: that sounds good.

You modders have my respects

regards

 

[Servitor]

****, I tried re-reading trice, but Dyslection is being a *****. Could you clearly state the problem again?  Not just examples, but an explanation of the problem.

 

[EvolutiveBrain]

My bad, I misenterpreted the info, I did read the whole post, just misenterpreted, but anyway, nice topic, keep it up.