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Too many noble trees are just heavy cav

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NWCtim

Recruit
Sturgia - Make the noble tree heavy Housecarls/Huskarls infantry, replace the brigand/horse raider branch with a watered down
Druzhinnik cav.

Aserai - Mameluke cavalry no longer horse archers, just average heavy cav (maybe with a horse archer branch at the end). Noble line is a super high athletics infantry based on historical Mubarizun soldiers armed with fast 1h swords and shields.

Vlandia and Empire can keep their noble heavy cav lines as is since they fit.
 

vota dc

Sergeant Knight at Arms
M&BWB
They need better skill/equipment for those foot nobles. For example Fian have a better bow than horse archers to justify the fact they are at foot with same upkeep of other nobles.
 

Aghalen

Recruit
I disagree, historically many Nobles fought as heavy cav. Warhorses being expensive to maintain, leaving only minor nobles to be able to afford them.
I wouldn't mind however if an additional branch was added for noble trees.
 

NWCtim

Recruit
I disagree, historically many Nobles fought as heavy cav. Warhorses being expensive to maintain, leaving only minor nobles to be able to afford them.
I wouldn't mind however if an additional branch was added for noble trees.

Well most actual nobles in the game do fight on horseback (except for some Batannians). I called them 'noble' because that's what most people call them, they should really be called something else, like 'elite troop line' or 'tier 6 line'.
 

Aghalen

Recruit
Well most actual nobles in the game do fight on horseback (except for some Batannians). I called them 'noble' because that's what most people call them, they should really be called something else, like 'elite troop line' or 'tier 6 line'.
I understand.
The reason they are referred to as Noble trees, is that are meant to represent landed individuals who aren't part of the higher nobility, yet they probably have Titles. Historical examples would be Charlemagnenian Knechts, Medieval Knights, Byzantine Archontopouloi, and Norse Housecarls.
I think it is nice fluff.
 

Boomstomp123

Recruit
I agree Sturgians should be limited by one light cavalry class and the rest including noble troops should be infantry its an infantry faction the focus should be infantry.
 

wurmo

Recruit
For each Tier just give them
30 Athletics
25 unused Melee
20 unused Ranged
to avoid silly sieges & tournaments.
 

Hoki

Recruit
It fits for every faction’s nobles to be cavalry.
The only reason Battania doesn’t is because they’re a completely unrealistic, out of time imagining of ancient celts/Gaul.
Given the technology and tactics of the Bannerlord time, all nobles should be heavy cav.
 

eddiemccandless

Knight at Arms
WBNWVC
It fits for every faction’s nobles to be cavalry.
The only reason Battania doesn’t is because they’re a completely unrealistic, out of time imagining of ancient celts/Gaul.
Given the technology and tactics of the Bannerlord time, all nobles should be heavy cav.

Historically speaking, perhaps. Gamewise, it would make for a boring game where all elite troops are the same.

I like OP's line of thinking, I would say that it's probably not a high priority issue right now but more variety would be nice. Having many elite troops tree be on foot however would require first to fix the physics issues that are currently happening when cavalry vs infantry battles occur.
 

Neofd10

Recruit
It fits for every faction’s nobles to be cavalry.
The only reason Battania doesn’t is because they’re a completely unrealistic, out of time imagining of ancient celts/Gaul.
Given the technology and tactics of the Bannerlord time, all nobles should be heavy cav.
That’s true as the nobles of the early medieval celts (Welsh, Irish and Scots) often fought on both horse back and foot. During the 1000AD (which is around the time the game is set) they would be primarily mounted.
 

durbal

Sergeant
Sturgia - Make the noble tree heavy Housecarls/Huskarls infantry, replace the brigand/horse raider branch with a watered down
Druzhinnik cav.

Aserai - Mameluke cavalry no longer horse archers, just average heavy cav (maybe with a horse archer branch at the end). Noble line is a super high athletics infantry based on historical Mubarizun soldiers armed with fast 1h swords and shields.

Vlandia and Empire can keep their noble heavy cav lines as is since they fit.

Sturgians are Kievan Rus, not Scandinavians. The Druzhinik are fine.

And absolutely do not touch the brigand/horse raider branch. They are unique, fun to use, and one of the few strengths of the Sturgian troop lines.

Aserai are not Arab-based, they're North African-based. Their troops are fine.

It seems like you think there's a problem with having a lot of noble lines being heavy cavalry and are trying to shoehorn a solution to it. I don't think there's a problem at all and your proposed solutions would actually create one.
 

NWCtim

Recruit
Sturgians are Kievan Rus, not Scandinavians. The Druzhinik are fine.

And absolutely do not touch the brigand/horse raider branch. They are unique, fun to use, and one of the few strengths of the Sturgian troop lines.

Aserai are not Arab-based, they're North African-based. Their troops are fine.

It seems like you think there's a problem with having a lot of noble lines being heavy cavalry and are trying to shoehorn a solution to it. I don't think there's a problem at all and your proposed solutions would actually create one.

Kievan Rus has was founded by scandinavian conquers/settlers that mixed with local slavs and mixed with their culture over time. It would make sense that while they have adopted Druzhinik into their regular army, their leaders would still prefer the nordic style of fighting, at least for now.

Still, if you like brigand line, then the tier 5 druzhiniks don't have to replace them. Having a noble huskarl line makes having 2 tier 5 shield infantry types kinda redundant anyways.

The first 8 words of the dev blog section describing the Aserai are: "The Aserai are based on the Arab tribes"

You don't think 4 out of 6 of the tier 6 troop lines leading to functionally the same unit is kinda boring and makes the factions a bit too similar?
 

Hoki

Recruit
While I think they should all be heavy cavalry with equivalent access to the higher quality protection, the weapons available and fighting styles should differ.
For instance, only vlandian cavalry should couch a lance or require a warhorse.
No other cavalry charged like that. It’s a misunderstood thing about cataphracts, that they were huge warhorse mounted knights.
I honestly think that only vlandia should do charge damage without throwing them off of the horse.
Cataphract’s horses weren’t as big, and they didn’t have stirrups. They fought very differently.
I’ll post more later, but there’s a lot of flavor differences they could add in for heavy cav.
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
Azerai nobles should be horse archers, so should Khuzait.

Khuzait nobles are already horse archers, right from the start. Noble's Sons aren't very good, but the moment they hit Torguud, they begin to wreck faces. Aserai's noble line ends in the best javelin cavalry in the game. And I personally think they are underrated; my force of twelve Aserai Vanguard Faris puts up not much fewer kills than my twenty-five Vlandian Banner Knights in short fights. Those javelins or jereeds or whatever they are throwing really do have a shock impact, even against shielded troops (since they lower their shields in anticipation of a charge).
 
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I like that noble troops are cavalry as they should be. However for sake of variety, maybe add another branch to noble tree. Don't replace anything, but for Sturgians add Huscarls (infantry), for Empire catacrapht lancer-archers (lance, sword/mace, bow and arrows, but no shield and slightly lower melee stats than catas we currently have) etc.
Since they are not strictly speaking noble tree, just elite troops of whom some are nobles and some are just more elite troops, they don't need to be limited to roles that nobility finds acceptable. And ofc there were always some nobles who fought differently from accepted norm of their culture. So i think it immersion would not suffer, depending how you see it.

I don't think troops need to be replaced because its not like we are forced to recruit all troops and since this is singleplayer we are talking about, not everything needs to be perfectly balanced. As long as factions overall are balanced and there is always some reason to use the unit its fine. Remember that once penalties for having troops from different cultures are added, your slightly inferior spearmen might be better pick than slightly stronger spearmen from another culture, so it keeps all units worthwhile. So we don't need to think too much about replacing some units, if some people like them, let them use them, others don't have to.
 
Sturgian Druzhiniks are quite good and help round out the Sturgian army. Still, one idea I reckon could be fun is to make the Druzhiniks behave more like a mounted infantry man. Give them athletics worthy of a t6, and give them more of an infantry loadout. They can be heavily armed with a variety of axes just like the good ol' huscarl, but have a horse to carry them around and act as heavy cavalry in a pinch, while also being awesome infantry if needed.

Another idea I reckon could be fun is to let the Skolderbrotva gain access to a unique t6 infantry troop, just to emphasise their absolute elite status. Maybe do the same for the Company of the Golden Boar. That way we have places to pull t6 infantry and crossbows. Of course, it would be necessary to make them easier to recruit as well.
 

Alenovic

Regular
WB
Druzhiniks are fine and should not be touched, as do the Horse raiders. Sturgians are NOT NORDS. If you want to make a case to add housecarls. then please for the love of god... DELETE those useless ulfhadnars. even recruits can kill em in a 1 v 1.

A simple roman tier 2 unit kills an ulfhadnar before he even gets in range... then after seeing you needed 1 hour of intense training time to train that piece of crap you won't even bother in the future. IMO the devs should delete and remove all evidence that Ulfhadners ever existed in this game. From the start there was always something wrong with them, if not their stats, than their name, fighting, movement. They are just a tumor of this game.

Since april the 5th I haven't been making ulfhadners anymore.
 
Druzhiniks are fine and should not be touched, as do the Horse raiders. Sturgians are NOT NORDS. If you want to make a case to add housecarls. then please for the love of god... DELETE those useless ulfhadnars. even recruits can kill em in a 1 v 1.

A simple roman tier 2 unit kills an ulfhadnar before he even gets in range... then after seeing you needed 1 hour of intense training time to train that piece of crap you won't even bother in the future. IMO the devs should delete and remove all evidence that Ulfhadners ever existed in this game. From the start there was always something wrong with them, if not their stats, than their name, fighting, movement. They are just a tumor of this game.

Since april the 5th I haven't been making ulfhadners anymore.
You've been missing out then. Protect them properly and they'll get you results.
 

Alenovic

Regular
WB
You've been missing out then. Protect them properly and they'll get you results.
Yes, I've been missing out on micro-micro-micromanaging the rate of survival for these crap units. Combine it with the fact that the formations number you give your units keeps resetting. bundling all infantry in formation, makes this not even worth the trouble you have to do each battle.

If you say that you prefer 10 ulfhadnars instead of 5 veteran or shock troops. I'm not even taking you serious anymore.

The funniest thing is when you have a small battle of 450 against 40 sea raiders... wasn't paying to much attention created a shield wall 50 meters away from starting location. The ulfhadners just sprinted and died within seconds...So afterward i reloaded and did an auto battle.. AGAIN THE damn ulfhednars kept dying. this time random but it just spoils the fun.. especially micromanaging the little basterd so much in order to make them just a little bit effective.
 
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