"Too Complex" and "Soon"

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Love the meme, perfect placement, *chef’s kiss* great timing.

But I do feel the need to clarify, I did mean it. Reacting with a LoOk At WhAt He SaYs isn’t warranted nor desired nor productive. Which is why I’ve deleted my comment.
 

Rungsted93

Sergeant at Arms
WBWF&SVC
I think people react like this because it's almost become a trademark that TW always give these extremely vague answers to even the most minor thing... I mean why not just use the old for PC? everyone likes that one better. Then they can use their radial one for consoles for all I care. Instead we get this "might change and improve in the future" stuff...
 
I think people react like this because it's almost become a trademark that TW always give these extremely vague answers to even the most minor thing... I mean why not just use the old for PC? everyone likes that one better. Then they can use their radial one for consoles for all I care. Instead we get this "might change and improve in the future" stuff...
Exactly, if these answers made any rational sense it would be far different.
 
I think people react like this because it's almost become a trademark that TW always give these extremely vague answers to even the most minor thing... I mean why not just use the old for PC? everyone likes that one better. Then they can use their radial one for consoles for all I care. Instead we get this "might change and improve in the future" stuff...

They themselves dont have it all pinned out, I believe. So anything they say can and will be held against them in the court of General Discussion. Then if things were to change, they’re not targeted by the mobs but can pull their hands off and say: I said “maybe”, right?

Couple of things could eliminate that behaviour: we could not pin and screenshot every post to use later, they could become more at ease and thus less vage.

One cant go without the other though, but thats a very long and near impossible process.
 

Rungsted93

Sergeant at Arms
WBWF&SVC
They themselves dont have it all pinned out, I believe. So anything they say can and will be held against them in the court of General Discussion. Then if things were to change, they’re not targeted by the mobs but can pull their hands off and say: I said “maybe”, right?

Couple of things could eliminate that behaviour: we could not pin and screenshot every post to use later, they could become more at ease and thus less vage.

One cant go without the other though, but thats a very long and near impossible process.
I get where you're coming from, but they've announced themselves game will leave EA fairly soon. If they don't know themselves what will be in the game or not at this point, that's just crazy. On the other side I believe they just give us these "maybe" answers to not cause more frustration.

That being said, something like the command menu should be possible to change in a couple of hours... It's really not a that complicated thing
 

Tirdezan

Master Knight
You have won the internet and the forum drama. Oops, hands up, you caught me red handed while i am lying, officer. Unfortunately for me, i am now taking a step back because of your patronizing language and i will never use humour again in my life, apologizing from any developers and forum moderators got traumatized by my unrespectful and childish comments follows as such: [redacted as i don't want to repeat those crimes against humanity].

Can i get a mute like one week please? I need stay away anyway.
 
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That being said, something like the command menu should be possible to change in a couple of hours... It's really not a that complicated thing
Yes, but what if they have to ask for permission at a meeting? That would take days and they might not even go through with it because they don't think it's important or don't want the aggravation of having to propose and defend something on behalf of some players.
We really need a more direct channel to TW decision makers to tell them when they are making an obvious mistake, and not rely on individual devs. Perhaps Dejan is such a channel, so if anyone wants to argue this on behalf of all the players, please go ahead and flag him.
(edit: by obvious mistakes I mean the removal of the old PC-friendly formation interface and the removal of the battle size slider)
 

vito397

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
That would take days and they might not even go through with it because they don't think it's important or don't want the aggravation of having to propose and defend something on behalf of some players.
That is exactly what I had feared already. Weird to see it said plainly like this
 

ShakenSpeare

Sergeant at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
To me, it was pretty clearly pointing towards his previous post, as his own sentences from it:
-"Improvements can be made", and
-"If you have more suggestions for the current version, I invite you to the UI suggestions section"
...were paraphrased with a mocking tone, only with the "TW" label instead of his username, only 4 and 5 posts after his, respectively.

That being said, this is still mild stuff and that's why i just simply wrote a post here, so it stays that way and doesen't repeat, at least not in this form of what i understood it as.

It's one thing to make fun of a dev and his answers, but then at least be honest about your intentions when called out on it.
If i am wrong, however, and both of you are being honest (like Lord Grindelvald was), then MRay will read this and be sure he wasn't personally ridiculed - no harm done, other than me falsely calling something out, in which case i would apologize (but as of now i am not convinced one bit for reasons stated two paragraphs ago).

If you are not, the verbal warning from my previous post in this thread stands as a reminder for what is not desirable, in case it repeats, which would make it not be "mild stuff" anymore, and further action has to take place.
You misunderstand my intent. I was not dishonest in what I said about it. I stated here that I was making fun of what MRay said, but not the individual himself:
If somehow making fun of what someone has said is equivalent to attacking, flaming, and making someone extremely uncomfortable, then I don't know why someone would ever participate around on the internet.
But I am not attacking him. I'm principally attacking TW's communication, but if you want to look at the nitty-gritty of it, sure I'm also attacking the dry statement he made. I'm sure he's a great guy, but most of the developers that make statements seem to be strictly limited in what they can say. I do not put the blame on him, I put the blame on the company/management for their overall communication policy. Duh's communication was similar when responding to the community roadmap. People made jokes about his communication style, including me, yet this was not deemed inappropriate behavior, nor seen as a personal attack upon Duh. I don't see what the problem is now, all of a sudden? I do not see how making a lighthearted joke about someone's statement is "flaming and ganging up on a developer" as you put it. If you mock or make fun of what someone says, generally it's not taken as a personal attack on their character, rather, a tease and/or feedback criticizing the statement itself. I did not see myself as attacking MRay.

Generally, I make my humor only half-serious if at all. I put the username as "TW" because I was mocking the general way that TW responds to questions or feedback, within the context of the previous statement that MRay made that had the same overall communication style. It was supposed to be a generic dialogue criticizing TW's overall communication policy with relevant humor. I explicitly put "TW" to make a negative statement about the company, not about the developer. I don't attack individuals in organizations I don't like, unless they are in full charge and responsibility for the problems, like the leadership in TW. I dislike TW, but as I said before, that does not mean that I dislike individuals. It means I dislike TW as an organization. Just like if I say I dislike the Iranian government, I am not attacking and speaking ill of Iranian people, I am speaking ill about their overall government and leadership.

I apologize to you MRay, if my words felt unwelcoming and rude. My joke was poking fun at your general communication style, as well as criticizing TW's overall communication doctrine, particularly under the assumption that you're not allowed to give more details during your statement. Even if my assumption is untrue, and I'm essentially just criticizing your communication at this point, that does not mean that I dislike you or see you as the enemy. I think I can respectfully critique that your communication in this instance feels dry and corporate without it being a personal insult or it suggesting that I think you're a lacking developer. We all have faults, we can't harshly insult mistakes we ourselves have also made.

You too are free to report whatever post of mine makes you feel that way, in which case someone (not me) will handle it appropriately.
It wasn't a matter-of-fact statement, it was an analogy to your argument that my joke was naturally supposed to make MRay "uncomfortable".

I hope I've explained myself here (mouthful, I know) that I don't have ill intent towards individual developers. It's just light-hearted humor that may have come out too personally harsh on my part.
 

Ser Jon

Sergeant at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
I don't know how MRay felt about it of course, but I read it and came off as a joke about TW itself and not any individual of the development team. There are few developers that grace this forum with their presence, and I don't think anyone—short of those without much of a brain left—would seek them out and attack them for something that is most certainly not their responsibility. It will be a sad day on the forums if one cannot even do that (poke fun at TW).

Yes, but what if they have to ask for permission at a meeting? That would take days and they might not even go through with it because they don't think it's important or don't want the aggravation of having to propose and defend something on behalf of some players.
We really need a more direct channel to TW decision makers to tell them when they are making an obvious mistake, and not rely on individual devs. Perhaps Dejan is such a channel, so if anyone wants to argue this on behalf of all the players, please go ahead and flag him.
(edit: by obvious mistakes I mean the removal of the old PC-friendly formation interface and the removal of the battle size slider)

That unfortunately seems like something that will never happen. It seems they are content with whoever they are taking advice from, and find the input of those on the forums somehow a painfully loud minority. Perhaps the Steam stats convince them that everyone just loves the direction they are going, so they keep heading that way, regardless of input?
 

Piconi

Fashionista
Section Moderator
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
People made jokes about his communication style, including me, yet this was not deemed inappropriate behavior, nor seen as a personal attack upon Duh.
As a matter of fact, as i was saying earlier, i do agree with the sentiment towards TW communication strategy.
However, i didn't catch that discussion fully so i can not say, while i did this one.
I don't see what the problem is now, all of a sudden?
We are merely discussing this, because i saw it like i did and stood in his defence.

Making lighthearted jokes about TW isn't forbidden, and is actually quite widespread nowadays, as long as it is civil within measure, and individuals arent targeted.

You have explained very well now, I myself apologize to you for misunderstanding your intent and putting you on the spot, and I'm very glad you clarified your position to MRay, so this little back n forth was worth it.
 

ShakenSpeare

Sergeant at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
You have explained very well now, I myself apologize to you for misunderstanding your intent and putting you on the spot, and I'm very glad you clarified your position to MRay, so this little back n forth was worth it.
No hard feelings! A happy ending always makes it worth it. I also apologize for initially responding to you harshly.
 

bonerstorm

Veteran
he will return like jesus christ and help us continue this holy fight against the infidels
@MostBlunted is our one true savior. For our sake he was flamed, suspended and banhammered. He has spoken through the sock accounts. He will come again in glory to judge the modders and the devs.

We believe in one wholly completed game. It will be released in perfect harmony of SP, MP and RPG... And his butter shall have no end.

Soon (TM)
 
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