To TaleWorlds

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Jess_the_Hobozerk

Grandmaster Knight
M&BWBWF&SNW
I don't understand the word "of course" in your sentence and what - if you're just not gonna get what you want you think it's legitimate to just go beserk? What kind of communication is that? Really baffling.
Look, I don't control other people's actions; I only have agency of my own. However I do recognize that their feelings of frustration are perfectly valid and in my opinion; warranted for TaleWorlds based on prior experience for them to take notice instead of plugging their ears saying "Lalalala" like they did with Warband for years during its development and life-span.
 

Zcrouse08

Recruit
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
This thread would've been fine about your take on the game, but you had to be toxic about it and attack people in your OP post like, why?

If that's what it sounds like, I apologize. My intention was not to attack anyone, and I don't think my words feel scathing. My issue is not with those opinions that I do not hold, it is with the general insistence that those opinions represent fact, or are indicative of a majority opinion. Again, sorry if you felt like you were being attacked. I'm not above editing and rewording my OP, if you can help me understand where the problem is.
 

metafa

Sergeant at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Look, I don't control other people's actions; I only have agency of my own. However I do recognize that their feelings of frustration are perfectly valid and in my opinion; warranted for TaleWorlds based on prior experience for them to take notice instead of plugging their ears saying "Lalalala" like they did with Warband for years during its development and life-span.

C'mon they were busy developing Bannerlord in all honesty. I don't see how you can argue they didn't listen to you about Warband when that's the thing you're putting out there as perfect example about this and that aspect. And no. It's not understandable to just rage all day and all night about some feature someone who owns a game you don't has different considerations about than you do. It's not anywhere near acceptable and needs to be called out.
 

Caius_III

Sergeant at Arms
I hope you don't mean those loonies that post videos of noobstomping and derive conclusions about balance from them?

98b161d975cd8997e84ff3bdfd8bc711.gif
 

metafa

Sergeant at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
If that's what it sounds like, I apologize. My intention was not to attack anyone, and I don't think my words feel scathing. My issue is not with those opinions that I do not hold, it is with the general insistence that those opinions represent fact, or are indicative of a majority opinion. Again, sorry if you felt like you were being attacked. I'm not above editing and rewording my OP, if you can help me understand where the problem is.

Don't worry OP, your words were completely appropriate. That particular character likes to exaggerate the negative impact your posting might or might not have while diminishing the sheer toxicity his own postings intentionally project. It's a clear pattern of behaviour.
 

Younes

Master Knight
WBWF&SNWVC
If that's what it sounds like, I apologize. My intention was not to attack anyone, and I don't think my words feel scathing. My issue is not with those opinions that I do not hold, it is with the general insistence that those opinions represent fact, or are indicative of a majority opinion. Again, sorry if you felt like you were being attacked. I'm not above editing and rewording my OP, if you can help me understand where the problem is.
Well yeah, obviously all you see on the forums are opinions not facts.
 

Scarf Ace

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVCM&B
Well, that's all nice and dandy. But that doesn't account for the language being often used here "broken" "crap" and the like. If one or the other would very occasionally politely mention something about some kind of alternative to the class system that would be another thing. That language doesn't do Bannerlord the honor it dearly deserves.
First of all, everyone here who has experience with the devs knows that it's sadly the case that being cordial with them doesn't get you a response, while having a hostile tone does, especially when it comes to Callum.
In fact, it's a demonstrable fact that the best way to get Callum to respond to something is to just outright say something mean without providing any actual feedback, so he can give you a retort and feel smug about himself. The hostile tone is entirely due to Taleworld's own actions.
Secondly, customers don't have any obligation to kiss the shoes of the developer.
 

metafa

Sergeant at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
First of all, everyone here who has experience with the devs knows that it's sadly the case that being cordial with them doesn't get you a response, while having a hostile tone does, especially when it comes to Callum.
In fact, it's a demonstrable fact that the best way to get Callum to respond to something is to just outright say something mean without providing any actual feedback, so he can give you a retort and feel smug about himself. The hostile tone is entirely due to Taleworld's own actions.

Lol... I will let that stand uncommented.
 

Scarf Ace

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVCM&B
Lol... I will let that stand uncommented.
I'm not one of those people being excessively hostile, and I always give well-reasoned feedback, which may or may not come with a snarky tone. Either way, trust me, we tried for many months to be as polite as humanly possible and have a good discussion about things, but it was Taleworlds, especially Callum who drove the tone of the conversation in the direction it's taken.
You, by the way, are not improving things one bit.
 

metafa

Sergeant at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
I'm not one of those people being excessively hostile, and I always give well-reasoned feedback, which may or may not come with a snarky tone. Either way, trust me, we tried for many months to be as polite as humanly possible and have a good discussion about things, but it was Taleworlds, especially Callum who drove the tone of the conversation in the direction it's taken.

He answered you only yesterday. He said they see more potential in the class system. That should usually be the end of it.

You, by the way, are not improving things one bit.

I have some contextual ideas about the game and the feedback that's given and say them. Then get attacked from all sides. Oh sure, I'm the problem. Let's go with that.
 
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Jess_the_Hobozerk

Grandmaster Knight
M&BWBWF&SNW
C'mon they were busy developing Bannerlord in all honesty. I don't see how you can argue they didn't listen to you about Warband when that's the thing you're putting out there as perfect example about this and that aspect. And no. It's not understandable to just rage all day and all night about some feature someone who owns a game you don't and have different considerations than you do.
In my perspective, saying something is "crap" or "sucks" is not raging or going "berserk" as you like to put it. Also, I seriously doubt they were working on bannerlord in warband beta and 1 year after release; pretty sure they were fixing singleplayer bugs and looking towards the dlc modules, just a hunch.

No one is saying warband was perfect; in fact it was far from perfect and we brought up its pain points back then too. The reason people make that comparison is because as M&B fans we expected what was essentially; the author of the genre to follow its own footsteps and to build upon and improve the weak points of its previous versions. Instead we got a game that takes more cues from its failed competitors; than from the book their competitors attempted to copy from, that they themselves wrote.

So to us who have for nearly a decade or more; provided constructive criticism, offered suggestions to fix common complaints or walls that are in the game; to always fall on deaf ears and watch the game slowly turn into something that is foreign to what made it special originally... is disappointing to say the least and fills people with different emotions who've been loyal fans for a good chunk of their lives.

I'm extrapolating quite a bit obviously, the game is not at that stage yet, but just because it's done 'okay' on release day, means nothing to how it's life-span will actually go; and I believe that these changes are detrimental to the longevity of this game's potential life-span.
 
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Tork789

Knight at Arms
WBNWWF&SM&BVC
I always give well-reasoned feedback
Like that weird uncalled for soviet-bashing propaganda you spilled for no reason?

Either way, trust me, we tried for many months to be as polite as humanly possible
No you haven't. The tone was already entitled, demanding and pretty much insulting by the time I joined in July and when I pointed it out you gave me the very same excuses: that you're allowed to behave that way because you've been demanding the same thing and the devs aren't hasty enough to deliver it(btw they did deliver the blocking and skating fix you were whining about back then). If the beta started in June, even if we assume you've been polite the whole month, it's not many months, not even close.
 

Scarf Ace

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVCM&B
Like that weird uncalled for soviet-bashing propaganda you spilled for no reason?
Last time I checked, you weren't a developer, and that you still haven't understood that post says a lot more about you than it says about me.
Also, "soviet-bashing propaganda" - yes indeed, I do abhor genocidal regimes responsible for immesurable amounts of human suffering, like any normal person does.
 

Tork789

Knight at Arms
WBNWWF&SM&BVC
I do abhor genocidal regimes responsible for immesurable amounts of human suffering, like any normal person does.
As do I, but what does Soviet Union has to do with it? In any case, it's not a politics forum, I don't think that discussing it is appropriate here. You are free to hit me up in PM though.
 
Last time I checked, you weren't a developer, and that you still haven't understood that post says a lot more about you than it says about me.
Also, "soviet-bashing propaganda" - yes indeed, I do abhor genocidal regimes responsible for immesurable amounts of human suffering, like any normal person does.
Yo check again he might be it now
 

metafa

Sergeant at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
In my perspective, saying something is "crap" or "sucks" is not raging or going "berserk" as you like to put it.

Well, especially on the Internet I would argue that it can easily be interpreted that way, and even if the developers don't - if they let it fly then next guy sees it and thinks this is normal way of discourse and thinks he can push the boundaries of what's acceptable a little more, then the next guy sees it and thinks......... etc pp. I would hope to read more respectful language here. This game surely as said doesn't deserve to be called these things.
 

Zcrouse08

Recruit
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
I was going to quote individual replies, but wow. I can't believe the speed at which these replies flew in.

I see a few people who think that I am attacking them for not loving certain multiplayer decisions, and some who feel that I am mischaracterizing their opinion as "hates everything about multiplayer".

Let me try to restate my opinion. I enjoy the feel of the multiplayer, and I think the class system provides the same or similar levels of freedom as what came before, while offering structure that did not previously exist. To me it is like running a database query, everything still exists as it always did, you just have a neat way of organizing the information by type or variable now. Rather than scroll through weapons and compare individually, you search for "longest spear" and that's what you get. I like that. It's ok if you don't.

The point of my post was to highlight my own opinion, point out (admittedly anecdotally) that I am not alone, and ask that the devs remain skeptical of people saying things like "the majority", "clearly everyone", "only true fans" is not only unproductive, it could be downright false, in that this forum does not necessarily represent the entirety of the Bannerlord community (which is very positive in other places).

I think that one aspect of my claim has been pretty solidly supported by the reaction to this thread. Look at your posts, and the cross-referencing of previous posts going back months and months. You all know each other intimately. This is a small community. I only ask that TW consider that before they make any sweeping changes on your behalf.

I don't think this is rude, or at least that isn't my intention. I don't think that your opinion is lesser than mine. Our opinions might actually be very similar! I just think you (this forum in general) should stop attacking everyone who likes the game and claiming to speak for everyone, because you don't speak for me, and most of us can see through the "appeal to authority" fallacy anyway.
 
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