to modder expert, need help with troops problems.

[Eagle114th]

After using unofficial Mount and Blade's tools to create an entire of new army for Mount and Blade, while doing roman's army ranking and upgrade system, I set all of these army to be at vaegir's side. But when I started a new game while checking on each of vaegir's city to recruit roman's townwatcher, but I have not seen any of them, except for only vaegir' army instead. I also am using native folder as my pimary beta testing on my mod, just in case, if you are asking if I am using this folder, due to mount and blade's bugs of not being able to use troops file on other seperate folder for modded versions.

Here are two out of fifteen roman's individual armies I have done so far and can some of you see what is wrong with them?

Roman_Town_Watcher Roman_Town_Watcher Roman_Town_Watcher 3806527488 0 96 9
48 0 66 0 84 0 141 0 160 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0
6 6 6 4 5
55 35 65 30 5 50
4503599912583442 301989905 69633
8484 1099645849737 12870 267976833957887
Roman_Hastati Roman_Hastati Roman_Hastati 3840280576 0 112 9
48 0 84 0 160 0 168 0 69 0 185 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0
10 9 9 8 10
95 45 90 45 10 85
4503600181018898 570429713 139522
8484 1099645849737 12870 267976833957887

 

[Ancientwanker]

I didnt look at the actual code but the problem is probably that its the innkeepers who determine what troops are recruited. Use the editor on them and look for the part about "hiring". Thats where that is determined. You pick which units they sell.

Personally I have little experience setting these "hiring" elements on the innkeepers as I did that part of my mod before the editor so I just use dialogue based recruitment and dont use the recruit screen.

 

[Eagle114th]

I didnt look at the actual code but the problem is probably that its the innkeepers who determine what troops are recruited. Use the editor on them and look for the part about "hiring". Thats where that is determined. You pick which units they sell.

Personally I have little experience setting these "hiring" elements on the innkeepers as I did that part of my mod before the editor so I just use dialogue based recruitment and dont use the recruit screen.

I am very new to these stuff, do you dont mind helping me with it?


Eagle out...

 

[Ancientwanker]

sure, just use the editor on one of the innkeepers. I dont know all of their names but I know one is Rose. So check Rose and on the right hand side of the screen youll see "Hire unit: vaegir peasant"

So shes set to recruit those and sometimes one level higher troops. You can change what she "sells" to any other unit.

 

[Eagle114th]

sure, just use the editor on one of the innkeepers. I dont know all of their names but I know one is Rose. So check Rose and on the right hand side of the screen youll see "Hire unit: vaegir peasant"

So shes set to recruit those and sometimes one level higher troops. You can change what she "sells" to any other unit.

I can't find it in editor tools v0.7, are they in conversion part?


Eagle out...

 

[Ancientwanker]

Im still using .06... in that version its on the standard npc screen just to the left of the npcs inventory.

 

[Eagle114th]

Im still using .06... in that version its on the standard npc screen just to the left of the npcs inventory.

UPDATE: I found what you were excalty talking about, let test this out!




Eagle out...

 

[Eagle114th]

I faced one of addition problem when successfully tweaked Rose to have my Roman townwatcher as recruitable, and here are my screen shots of error message I got from Mount and Blade:

Any idea what is causing this problem? If you want me to, I can copy and paste entire of new Roman's army ranking and upgrade system right here for you to check out on what's up with my problems with roman army?


Eagle out...

 

[Effidian]

That is probably caused by the upgrade issue. Lost-Lamb talked about it here.

 

[Ancientwanker]

Yeah, its a known issue. I think it probably has something to do with the placement of "enemy hero" and entries like that. I dont think they are real characters but are used by the engine in some wonky way as dividers...

not 100%, just a guess.

As a practical matter, what I do know is that Lost-Lamb was right and if a unit has two uprgrades the primary upgrade must be much earlier in the list than the secondary upgrade (try before and after the middle "enemy hero" just for kicks). I did a new bandit tree by using this trick and replacing the units that I know arent being used earlier in the list (like undead).

Since you are replacing all the units anyway, it should be easy to cut and paste your units into this format.

 

[Kestenvarn]

Roman_Town_Watcher Roman_Town_Watcher Roman_Town_Watcher 3806527488 0 96 9

Huh. I thought the first name had to be all lowercase.

 

[Effidian]

Huh. I thought the first name had to be all lowercase.

I don't believe it is a requirement, just a convension that armagan uses.

 

[Eagle114th]

So basically I had to set Roman Townwatcher to have one of upgrade only right, instead of two upgrade system, OR having peasants of veagir to have one pirmary upgrade of Townwatcher, so that way all rest of upgrade would work right?


Eagle out...

 

[Ancientwanker]

Its not just for the first upgrade. Its for every later upgrade too. They all must (if they have two upgrade paths) have the first listed upgrade refer to a troop type that comes very early in the troop list. The second upgrade must be to a troop that comes much later in the list.

1. bozo the clown
2. stimpy the clown
3. icky the clown
...
...
49. zsa zsa the clown
50 egbert the clown
51 bob the clown


stimpy will upgrade properly if his first upgrade option is to bozo or icky and his option 2 upgrade is to zsa-zsa, egbert or bob.

If he chooses bob. Bob might then be able to upgrade to a 1)icky or a 2)zsa zsa... and so on.

Its the distance between the entries and it needs to be somewhat significant. The first option must be early in the troops.txt file, the second option much later in the troops.txt file

 

[Eagle114th]

I have other problem again, after using lower cap. on all of roman's army names, thus testing vaegir's peasants to see if upgrade actually work. Then I faced other problem again, when it was supposed to show roman town watcher, but instead it only show blank on icon.

I am getting rather very frustated with problem I'm having, but I aint never giving up on it anyway! However, for now I am going to change veagir peasants into roman peasants to have single of pimary upgrade to roman town watcher while roman town watcher would have two option of upgrading to both hastai and velites.

Or I had to make two seperate town watcher to have an option for foot and missiles with single of pimary upgrade instead, due to Mount and Blade bugs?


Eagle out...

 

[Eagle114th]

Its not just for the first upgrade. Its for every later upgrade too. They all must (if they have two upgrade paths) have the first listed upgrade refer to a troop type that comes very early in the troop list. The second upgrade must be to a troop that comes much later in the list.

1. bozo the clown
2. stimpy the clown
3. icky the clown
...
...
49. zsa zsa the clown
50 egbert the clown
51 bob the clown


stimpy will upgrade properly if his first upgrade option is to bozo or icky and his option 2 upgrade is to zsa-zsa, egbert or bob.

If he chooses bob. Bob might then be able to upgrade to a 1)icky or a 2)zsa zsa... and so on.

Its the distance between the entries and it needs to be somewhat significant. The first option must be early in the troops.txt file, the second option much later in the troops.txt file

I still dont quite get what you excalty mean, but here are army upgrade system for roman:

roman peasants (due to M and B bugs, had to add this for having single of pimary upgrade)

----------------

Town Watcher (most basic army)

----------------

Hastati (foot army)
Velites (missile)

----------------

Principes (experienced foot army with stats, and equipment)
light auxilias (experienced with better missiles with more ammo with improved stats)
Equites (cavalry)

----------------

Triarii (veteran army with better armor, long spears and strong shield)
Archer (veteran missile army with archer and ammo of 120 arrows or less *due to balance*)
roman cavalry (experienced cavalry, armed better than basic Equites cavalry)

----------------

Legionary Cohort (the elite foot army of roman, with vast improvement of armor, high stats, very strong shield with gladius and throwing spears)
Archer auxilias
legionary cavalry (the elite cavalry of roman, very well eqiupmented with good charger horse)
cavalry auxilias *will have two options of having missile cavalry or non missile cavalry* (veteran cavalry, armed with throwing spears and dagger when stopped by enemy cavalry and foot army)

----------------

Legionary First Cohort (can only be upgrade 5 times after 15 to 20 battles)
Preatorian Cavalry (similar to concept of Leginoary First Cohort)


Eagle out...

 

[Eagle114th]

If these upgrade system wont work due to Mount and Blade, then I will have to use this second method temporary until bugs is fixed by developer of Mount and Blade. So this upgrade system would have to be like this way:

TW (foot) > H > P > T > LC > LFC
TW (missile) > V > LA > A > AA or cavlary auxillias
TW (cavalry) > veteran TW > E > RC > LC > PC

Do yiu think this will work?

UPDATE:

It wont work, unless there are a way to have three seperate of roman town watcher in recruit menu on each of vaegir's city until mod tools where we'd be able to add seperate barrack, archers, and cavalry stations in each of cities. They only support SINGLE type of army. Unless someone are kind enough to help me to solve my recruit system in either of method please, and I can only hope that developer of mount and blade would read this to acknowledge the problem of recruit and upgrade system.


Eagle out...

 

[Ancientwanker]

Youre making it more complicated than it is.

Roman peasant can upgrade to townwatch if you want or it could have two upgrades, your choice.

Townwatch can have two upgrades if you want: Hastati and Velite

Hastati can then have two upgrades and Velite can have two upgrades...etc...whatever. No problem.

Let me explain this with the examples you are using and not the clowns:

...

Here is your troops.txt

1.roman peasant
2.roman townwatch
3.roman velite
4...
5...
6..
...
80. roman hastati


This assumes that townwatch has two options 1)velite 2)hastati. This is the important part RIGHT HERE: Velite needs to be a lower numbered troops.txt entry than hastati does. (by quite a few entries/numbers). So its fine here. townwatch can become either velite or hastati. Hastati is much higher in the index than velite as its supposed to be in this engine for whatever reason. It may or may not be a bug but its not a problem.

 

[Eagle114th]

Youre making it more complicated than it is.

Roman peasant can upgrade to townwatch if you want or it could have two upgrades, your choice.

Townwatch can have two upgrades if you want: Hastati and Velite

Hastati can then have two upgrades and Velite can have two upgrades...etc...whatever. No problem.

Let me explain this with the examples you are using and not the clowns:

...

Here is your troops.txt

1.roman peasant
2.roman townwatch
3.roman velite
4...
5...
6..
...
80. roman hastati


This assumes that townwatch has two options 1)velite 2)hastati. This is the important part RIGHT HERE: Velite needs to be a lower numbered troops.txt entry than hastati does. (by quite a few entries/numbers). So its fine here. townwatch can become either velite or hastati. Hastati is much higher in the index than velite as its supposed to be in this engine for whatever reason. It may or may not be a bug but its not a problem.

So how do I edit the entries/numbers? Do i have to make alot extra copies of peasants and townwatcher before , in order, to have alot of entries/numbers to help stablizing in Mount and Blade's engine before adding hastati/velites and higher of ranking armies?


Eagle out...


Eagle out...

 

[Ancientwanker]

You can either plan the entire thing from the beginning with certain troops low in the file and other troops high in the file or...

You can do what I do, which is use the original mount and blade troops file and just cut/paste/edit to change it. This way you could quickly see that your upgrades are working and the "filler" characters to seperate your troops would already be in place. Over time you just remove all the original mount and blade entries one by one as you add and test.

Edit: I dont have any inside information but it appears that the next version of mount and blade is coming out very soon. Many things have probably changed to accomodate the mod tools and I know ive seen that the script describing troops has changed. How translatable any work you do on troops now will be to the new system is unknown as far as I know. Effidian has some inside info from Armagan but Im not even sure if his editor will be immediately compatible with the next version. So consider anything you do as a prototype.