To couch or not to couch: That is the question!

[darthtaco123]

The issue of couched lancing has been brought up to me by various people, and thus, with some drafting of ideas with some friends, we've got the basis for couched lancing/spear bracing! This is the best way we've seen to represent it in game.

A. Only one type of spear for cavalry/infantry can be classified as a lance/spear with the couching/spear bracing ability.
B. It will be the most expensive spear.
C. It will have a limiter on it (like the troop limiter), as to evade the issue of everyone, noob and god alike, running around couching everyone.
D. After a successful hit on either a person or shield, it will break on impact.

 

[Neville]

The issue of couched lancing has been brought up to me by various people, and thus, with some drafting of ideas with some friends, we've got the basis for couched lancing/spear bracing! This is the best way we've seen to represent it in game.

A. Only one type of spear for cavalry/infantry can be classified as a lance/spear with the couching/spear bracing ability.
B. It will be the most expensive spear.
C. It will have a limiter on it (like the troop limiter), as to evade the issue of everyone, noob and god alike, running around couching everyone.
D. After a successful hit on either a person or shield, it will break on impact.

That sounds quite good may be a bit difficult to code etc but best of luck

 

[Big Daddy Vitallion]

I play as cavalry, and even I can see this killing skilled gameplay, even if it has got all those restrictions. It's a simple matter of 'press x to kill', no skill involved, which turns me off massively.

I can already see a large public event in which these things are allowed in full. That's an entire legion killed in one charge, since most legions will have that ''get best ****'' attitude. In my opinion, this'll kill skilled players en mass, and everyone will instantly regret putting this in.

 

[Hagbard]

I vote against it. I don't see how it contributes to fun or competition, in any way.

 

[jepekula]

I say yes, if the lances are shorter or as long as regular spears, as they are then easily taken down with spears.

 

[Big Daddy Vitallion]

I say yes, if the lances are shorter or as long as regular spears, as they are then easily taken down with spears.

Some cavalry spears were 10ft long odd. Would be easy for a hoplite to down a cav man, won't be for anyone else.

 

[rgcotl]

well we r talking about one hit and lance are broken
so if the player could defend that one nothing really changes
but of cause when 30 coordinate players charge with it, the result could be that ~15 of infantry would be dead

also this lance type spears probably would be available only for companion cavalry and they wont be able to have shields

companion cavalry spears length will be in the game probably the longest (for cavalry)
and mainly if i am not wrong only phalanx will have longer sarisas

hoplites probably will have shorter or nearly same length spears

 

[Big Daddy Vitallion]

well we r talking about one hit and lance are broken
so if the player could defend that one nothing really changes
but of cause when 30 coordinate players charge with it, the result could be that ~15 of infantry would be dead

also this lance type spears probably would be available only for companion cavalry and they wont be able to have shields

companion cavalry spears length will be in the game probably the longest (for cavalry)
and mainly if i am not wrong only phalanx will have longer sarisas

hoplites probably will have shorter or nearly same length spears

They don't need to have spears to still be able to block, all the have to do is block down. Also, don't you think giving these longer than average cavalry spears with the ability to lance ONLY to Companion cavalry a little bit, I don't know, bias and one sided?
I know you guys want historical accuracy, but holy hell. That's more one sided than an OSP Roman vs a naked, defencless Gaul for god's sake.

 

[Big Daddy Vitallion]

well we r talking about one hit and lance are broken
so if the player could defend that one nothing really changes
but of cause when 30 coordinate players charge with it, the result could be that ~15 of infantry would be dead

also this lance type spears probably would be available only for companion cavalry and they wont be able to have shields

companion cavalry spears length will be in the game probably the longest (for cavalry)
and mainly if i am not wrong only phalanx will have longer sarisas

hoplites probably will have shorter or nearly same length spears

They don't need to have spears to still be able to block, all the have to do is block down. Also, don't you think giving these longer than average cavalry spears with the ability to lance ONLY to Companion cavalry a little bit, I don't know, bias and one sided?
I know you guys want historical accuracy, but holy hell. That's more one sided than an OSP Roman vs a naked, defencless Gaul for god's sake.

Can I get a response to this from one of the devs? This is concerning me greatly, and really does impact on the future direction of myself and my men.

 

[rgcotl]

well i do not really understand your question

about cavalry spear length i believe we will need a good count on it how much it really could reach
here is some references and if see spear holding position is something like this 3|handle|1

Spoiler

and by the way those lances could be used in 2 styles not just couch attack
couch attack will means you r going to break your spear
and if you use it in different way you may hold it much longer

 

[Neville]

Like to change my vote to no,

Looking at it, just ganna be to OP even if it breaks on impact the damage it can cause will ruin sheildbattles in my opinion.

 

[Farquarius]

well i do not really understand your question

about cavalry spear length i believe we will need a good count on it how much it really could reach
here is some references and if see spear holding position is something like this 3|handle|1

Spoiler

and by the way those lances could be used in 2 styles not just couch attack
couch attack will means you r going to break your spear
and if you use it in different way you may hold it much longer

I say you have NO couch lancing and that the macedonian lance should be slower and shorter than it would be historicly for balancing purposes, the lance can still be the longest lance in the game just not as long as it was historicly, otherwise the ENTIRE cavalry element of rome at war will be COMPLETLY and UTERLY one sided and will potentially ruin the WHOLE cavalry in the game for non macedonians.

 

[Neville]

well i do not really understand your question

about cavalry spear length i believe we will need a good count on it how much it really could reach
here is some references and if see spear holding position is something like this 3|handle|1

Spoiler

and by the way those lances could be used in 2 styles not just couch attack
couch attack will means you r going to break your spear
and if you use it in different way you may hold it much longer

I say you have NO couch lancing and that the macedonian lance should be slower and shorter than it would be historicly for balancing purposes, the lance can still be the longest lance in the game just not as long as it was historicly, otherwise the ENTIRE cavalry element of rome at war will be COMPLETLY and UTERLY one sided and will potentially ruin the WHOLE cavalry in the game for non macedonians.

+1 Balancing over historical accuracy

 

[Big Daddy Vitallion]

well i do not really understand your question

about cavalry spear length i believe we will need a good count on it how much it really could reach
here is some references and if see spear holding position is something like this 3|handle|1

Spoiler

and by the way those lances could be used in 2 styles not just couch attack
couch attack will means you r going to break your spear
and if you use it in different way you may hold it much longer

I say you have NO couch lancing and that the macedonian lance should be slower and shorter than it would be historicly for balancing purposes, the lance can still be the longest lance in the game just not as long as it was historicly, otherwise the ENTIRE cavalry element of rome at war will be COMPLETLY and UTERLY one sided and will potentially ruin the WHOLE cavalry in the game for non macedonians.

+1 Balancing over historical accuracy

+2

 

[darthtaco123]

The limiter idea would be a 1/10 ratio FOR CAVALRY, one lance per ten cavalry on the server. So even IF it was a SB (let's say 100 men) that's only 10 lances, and most cavalry clans aren't even that big, even IF it was the ESA with 20 odd people, you only have TWO lances. It's not THAT game breaking. And yes, it won't be EXACTLY as long as it is displayed as, and it WILL be slower, that's why the couched lance would be it's only real perk.

--Edit--

Currently the Kamax on foot can EASILY stop a Kamax that is couched. Why is that? The longer reach when stabbing. The couched lance moves a LOT slower as well, negating any effect of being able to aim it besides moving your horse. All it takes is side step, and a stab, and the horse is dead.

 

[Big Daddy Vitallion]

The limiter idea would be a 1/10 ratio FOR CAVALRY, one lance per ten cavalry on the server. So even IF it was a SB (let's say 100 men) that's only 10 lances, and most cavalry clans aren't even that big, even IF it was the ESA with 20 odd people, you only have TWO lances. It's not THAT game breaking. And yes, it won't be EXACTLY as long as it is displayed as, and it WILL be slower, that's why the couched lance would be it's only real perk.

--Edit--

Currently the Kamax on foot can EASILY stop a Kamax that is couched. Why is that? The longer reach when stabbing. The couched lance moves a LOT slower as well, negating any effect of being able to aim it besides moving your horse. All it takes is side step, and a stab, and the horse is dead.

But Taco, as you said yesterday in TS, it all depends on the event now doesn't it. Unless you plan on limiting the weapon in code, in which case that's taking away event and server owners freedom of choice regarding what they limit it to.

 

[darthtaco123]

The limiter idea would be a 1/10 ratio FOR CAVALRY, one lance per ten cavalry on the server. So even IF it was a SB (let's say 100 men) that's only 10 lances, and most cavalry clans aren't even that big, even IF it was the ESA with 20 odd people, you only have TWO lances. It's not THAT game breaking. And yes, it won't be EXACTLY as long as it is displayed as, and it WILL be slower, that's why the couched lance would be it's only real perk.

--Edit--

Currently the Kamax on foot can EASILY stop a Kamax that is couched. Why is that? The longer reach when stabbing. The couched lance moves a LOT slower as well, negating any effect of being able to aim it besides moving your horse. All it takes is side step, and a stab, and the horse is dead.

But Taco, as you said yesterday in TS, it all depends on the event now doesn't it. Unless you plan on limiting the weapon in code, in which case that's taking away event and server owners freedom of choice regarding what they limit it to.

If you intend to do an argument, at LEAST take and use a different one. As I'm not even a coder, I don't even know if this is possible, but it would be up to the servers host in which the ratio they seek to set. The 1/10 thing was just an example. Now, there's nothing to say that servers wouldn't set it to 1/3 ratio or just take it off. Even then we may set the couching thing as completely optional to the servers host, if they don't want it they don't have to have it. Another argument, let's say this was passed, even still, if the legion had half their wits about them, they'd think to look around when they hear hooves. Their shields would negate the effects of the charge (due to the deflection percentage we may add), so the worst you would get may be a bump.

 

[Big Daddy Vitallion]

The limiter idea would be a 1/10 ratio FOR CAVALRY, one lance per ten cavalry on the server. So even IF it was a SB (let's say 100 men) that's only 10 lances, and most cavalry clans aren't even that big, even IF it was the ESA with 20 odd people, you only have TWO lances. It's not THAT game breaking. And yes, it won't be EXACTLY as long as it is displayed as, and it WILL be slower, that's why the couched lance would be it's only real perk.

--Edit--

Currently the Kamax on foot can EASILY stop a Kamax that is couched. Why is that? The longer reach when stabbing. The couched lance moves a LOT slower as well, negating any effect of being able to aim it besides moving your horse. All it takes is side step, and a stab, and the horse is dead.

But Taco, as you said yesterday in TS, it all depends on the event now doesn't it. Unless you plan on limiting the weapon in code, in which case that's taking away event and server owners freedom of choice regarding what they limit it to.

If you intend to do an argument, at LEAST take and use a different one. As I'm not even a coder, I don't even know if this is possible, but it would be up to the servers host in which the ratio they seek to set. The 1/10 thing was just an example. Now, there's nothing to say that servers wouldn't set it to 1/3 ratio or just take it off. Even then we may set the couching thing as completely optional to the servers host, if they don't want it they don't have to have it. Another argument, let's say this was passed, even still, if the legion had half their wits about them, they'd think to look around when they hear hooves. Their shields would negate the effects of the charge (due to the deflection percentage we may add), so the worst you would get may be a bump.

You know, we wouldn't even be HAVING an argument right now if you knew how to say 'For example'. This entire idea seems overpowerd at best, and that's coming from me.. But what get's me is what rgcotl said:

also this lance type spears probably would be available only for companion cavalry

companion cavalry spears length will be in the game probably the longest (for cavalry)
and mainly if i am not wrong only phalanx will have longer sarisas

If you're seriously considering these factors, then i'm of the right mind to try out different mods. You can't just give a certain factions cavalry better weapons because it was historically accurate, that's what Deluge did for the Polish Hussars.

 

[Farquarius]

The limiter idea would be a 1/10 ratio FOR CAVALRY, one lance per ten cavalry on the server. So even IF it was a SB (let's say 100 men) that's only 10 lances, and most cavalry clans aren't even that big, even IF it was the ESA with 20 odd people, you only have TWO lances. It's not THAT game breaking. And yes, it won't be EXACTLY as long as it is displayed as, and it WILL be slower, that's why the couched lance would be it's only real perk.

--Edit--

Currently the Kamax on foot can EASILY stop a Kamax that is couched. Why is that? The longer reach when stabbing. The couched lance moves a LOT slower as well, negating any effect of being able to aim it besides moving your horse. All it takes is side step, and a stab, and the horse is dead.

But Taco, as you said yesterday in TS, it all depends on the event now doesn't it. Unless you plan on limiting the weapon in code, in which case that's taking away event and server owners freedom of choice regarding what they limit it to.

If you intend to do an argument, at LEAST take and use a different one. As I'm not even a coder, I don't even know if this is possible, but it would be up to the servers host in which the ratio they seek to set. The 1/10 thing was just an example. Now, there's nothing to say that servers wouldn't set it to 1/3 ratio or just take it off. Even then we may set the couching thing as completely optional to the servers host, if they don't want it they don't have to have it. Another argument, let's say this was passed, even still, if the legion had half their wits about them, they'd think to look around when they hear hooves. Their shields would negate the effects of the charge (due to the deflection percentage we may add), so the worst you would get may be a bump.

C'mon taco whats with the sudden hate of lancers, you used to love lancers and now you're saying that you want them limited to the point of having almost no lancers in a battle? I just don't understand.

 

[darthtaco123]

Obviously this is going nowhere guys, let's just end it now, we both have our opinions, and from the looks nobody is going to change their opinion. If I had it my way, it'd be a 1/2 ratio however .