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[Lt. of the tower]

thanks for the explanation merlkir. and it says in the beginning of one of the books (could be the silmarillion, the hobbit, or the fellowship of the ring) that english is being used in place of common speech, for translation purposes

For some reason I am going to say that is in The Fellowship of the Ring. Don't think it is The Silmarillion. Not sure about The Hobbit though.

 

[Trueten]

I might add that in my version of LOTR (on the other language) Theoden was named as Konung (but it is a translation, I dunno how was he called in orignal english version). Which is the scandinavian type (must be danish here) + (thogh I woudn't like to base things on the movie...) in the movie Rohirrim had buildings of the same scandinavian type.
And arn't hobbits are just leprechauns? Kinda irish folk-lore. Seemed be logical to me.

 

[Merlkir]

I might add that in my version of LOTR (on the other language) Theoden was named as Jarl (but it is a translation, I dunno how was he called in orignal english version). Which is the scandinavian type (must be danish here) + (althogh I woudn't like to base things on the movie...) in the movie Rohirrim had buildings of the same scandinavian type.
And arn't hobbits are just lepricons? Kinda irish folk-lore. Seemed be ligical to me.

Nope, Theoden is just a king. And hobbits have nothing to do with leprechauns.

 

[vadermath]

I'm no Tolkien expert, but it doesn't look to me like the Hobbits were based on anyone. They are simply there to prove that the weakest and smallest of people can make a big difference, and they represent a peaceful society in a war-torn world.

 

[vrashk]

I've got high hopes for this mod!

The old TLD is the first mod ever... actually the first computer-game ever to actually depict the orcs as I imagine them (Well, except my Orc guild in UO!), and some Mush... Elentar or something... was a long time since I played it.

And my idea of orcs is the one represented in the oh-so-great MERPS supplement Mount Gundabad.

I know exactly which faction I will be playing

 

[NikeBG]

I've heard the Hobbits were based on the English or Irish. Then again, I've also heard the Dwarves were based on Jews, the Rohirrim - on Goths, Saxons, even Bulgars*, the Gondorians - on Byzantium etc. etc. There are certainly A LOT of speculations on these things (some more plausible, others - not at all), which Tolkien certainly didn't like or intend.

*Based almost entirely on the similarity between the siege of Minas Tirith (the Rohirrims come to help the Gondorians and relieve their capital from the Orcish hordes) and the second Arab siege of Constantinople (the Bulgars come to help the Byzantines and relieve their capital from the Arab hordes).

 

[maniac]

AHHHH! I can't wait for this! Im gonna go easterlings Right away!

 

[octoburn]

Yeah, I believe Tolkien said the hobbits were based on the average Englishman of his time, the simplistic people (not an insult, I'm pretty sure that's how he described it) hobbits themselves are a complete anachronism within the middle earth time. They esentially represent a 18th ot 19th century culture in a world set in a pperiod similar to the dark or middle ages.

If Rohan isn't anglo-saxon based, why do you keep drawing Rohan sketches with anglo-saxon helmets? The eyesguards in particular are anglo-saxon, aren't they?

 

[Herby]

Aha! I just noticed you guys have included the Bardings of Dale... I love you.

 

[Merlkir]

If Rohan isn't anglo-saxon based, why do you keep drawing Rohan sketches with anglo-saxon helmets? The eyesguards in particular are anglo-saxon, aren't they?

more like viking. And there is exactly ONE find of such a viking helmet. It's just a popular look that people expect. And honestly - I like it too

 

[vrashk]

Of course hobbits are based on leprechauns!

Why do you think Saruman invaded the shire?!? He wanted to capture hobbits to get lots of gold-pots to raise a new army!!



Sorry Trueten, too good an opportunity for a bad joke to miss!

 

[Tibertus]

Dwarves were based on Jews

I can see that... A people who love gold and gems and look like this.

 

[Almalexia]

...I've also heard the Dwarves were based on Jews...

****ing awesome. Totally tasteless, but awesome.

 

[Bloid]

Dwarves were based on Jews

I can see that... A people who love gold and gems and look like this.

Though the connection with gold, gems and beards can be attributed to the traditional European dwarves. The Wiki article explains this more clearly:

In the earliest version of The Silmarillion, .... the very few Dwarves who appear are portrayed as evil beings, employers of Orc mercenaries and in conflict with the Elves ... Tolkien was inspired by the dwarves of Norse myths and dwarves of traditional European fairy-tales (such as those of the Brothers Grimm), from whom his Dwarves take their characteristic affinity with mining, metalworking, crafting and avarice.

The representation of Dwarves as evil changed dramatically with The Hobbit. Here the Dwarves became occasionally comedic and bumbling, but largely seen as honourable, serious-minded, but still portraying some negative characteristics... According to The History of the Hobbit, Tolkien was now influenced by his own selective reading of medieval texts regarding the Jewish people and their history. The dwarves' characteristics of being dispossessed of their homeland (the Lonely Mountain, their ancestral home, is the goal the exiled Dwarves seek to reclaim), and living among other groups whilst retaining their own culture are all derived from the medieval image of Jews, whilst their warlike nature stems from accounts in the Hebrew Bible. Medieval views of Jews also saw them as having a propensity for making well-crafted and beautiful things, a trait shared with Norse dwarves.

In short, Tolkien built upon traditional dwarves and gave them the historical Jewish attributes of being exiles who retain their own culture.

 

[Merlkir]

Or more likely - the author of The History of the Hobbit made that bull**** up.

 

[Llew2]

Or more likely - the author of The History of the Hobbit made that bull**** up.

So...enlighten us?

 

[ConstantA]

The dwarves' characteristics of being dispossessed of their homeland (the Lonely Mountain, their ancestral home, is the goal the exiled Dwarves seek to reclaim), and living among other groups whilst retaining their own culture are all derived from the medieval image of Jews, whilst their warlike nature stems from accounts in the Hebrew Bible.

What a piece of crap...

The Dunedain characteristics of being dispossessed of their homeland (the Arnor, their ancestral home, is the goal the exiled Dunedain seek to reclaim), and living among other groups whilst retaining their own culture are all derived from the medieval image of Jews, whilst their warlike nature stems from accounts in the Hebrew Bible.

Lonely Mountain - the ancestral home of the dwarves?
What about Khazad-Dum? Not ancestral enough? Nogrod? Belegost?

 

[Merlkir]

Or more likely - the author of The History of the Hobbit made that bull**** up.

So...enlighten us?

without some hints by T. himself it's just wishful thinking of the author. Tolkien hated analogies and hidden meanings people tried to find in his work, I'm sure that if he based the dwarves on Jews, he would've mentioned it.
As ConstantA pointed out, the arguments for this ridiculous theory aren't very solid.

 

[Herby]

There are just some people to who the 'imagination' is a mere myth, and any and every idea must be directly related to something already in existance. Whilst influences do exist, I think Merlkir's made it quite clear that Tolkein rarely made direct analogies himself... Indeed, direct analogies would've been somewhat strange, seeing as his mythical time period takes place long before the rise of any cultures still evident today, even before the landmasses had taken on the shape they do today, although if you see some of his maps, you can see which bits will become what.

 

[Oubliette]

The only mention of Jews I've ever heard is in the Tolkien Interview here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-G_v6-u3hg (and the transcrip of it here), where Tolkien says from 6:58 "The dwarves of course are quite obviously - wouldn't you say that in many ways they remind you of the Jews? Their words are Semitic obviously, constructed to be Semitic."