Time-Break in combat system...

[Manitas]

I'm starting to get used to to that some people don't seem to notice inertia all around. Maybe it's too obvious to see. For example: inertia is what allows you to walk and run, otherwise you could only crawl.
And anyone involved in some martial arts knows it too well. The best of them are taught to use it to their advantage.

Inertia does not care what people think about it, even J.Williams, whoever he is. It just sits there silently, and does it's job.

But don't worry. To fully implement inertia into a game it would take run-time generated animation. It's way to go.

 

[yehrom]

Thank you to redirect "inertia" to her real stuff, Manitas
)


(I'm sometime afraid by the turn of misunderstood way...)

 

[Orion]

Um... what? I can't understand this guy at all...

translate, please?

(No offense, and I know you're english isn't the best, but I just wanna know what you're saying so I can try to help & throw in some suggestions of my own)

 

[Kissaki]

I'm starting to get used to to that some people don't seem to notice inertia all around. Maybe it's too obvious to see. For example: inertia is what allows you to walk and run, otherwise you could only crawl.
And anyone involved in some martial arts knows it too well. The best of them are taught to use it to their advantage.

Inertia does not care what people think about it, even J.Williams, whoever he is. It just sits there silently, and does it's job.

But don't worry. To fully implement inertia into a game it would take run-time generated animation. It's way to go.

Without inertia we couldn't even crawl. But you can add realistic inertia into the game just as little as you could add molecules. And to add a "charging up" sequence into the game would go against realism - as anyone involved in some form of martial arts knows very well.

Between 0 mph and 50 mph there's 25 mph, 12.5 mph, 0.00123872 mph etc. etc. But the acceleration happens too fast for there to be any point in programming it.

 

[Manitas]

But the acceleration happens too fast for there to be any point in programming it.

It's clear that you have nothing to back that up.

Your eye can perceive the acceleration perfectly, but not directly. Maybe that's why you refuse to notice it. If there's no acceleration, then the movement seems unnatural to you.

There's fundamental point to program it. Current methods of animation got old. Motion capture and skeletal animation both have too many limitations.
Run time generated animation is the logical step to make after the new physics and ragdoll systems, inertia will have a fundamental significance in such a system.
It's very important, you just happen not to realize it.

And to add a "charging up" sequence into the game would go against realism

I don't know what unrealistic you see about that. Are we talking about the same thing? If you provided some reasons it might become clear.

 

[Roach]

I don't know what unrealistic you see about that. Are we talking about the same thing? If you provided some reasons it might become clear.

I see where he's coming from, to put it in an analogy it would be like a boxer telegraphing a big haymker (i.e. twisting his torso, cocking an arm back to get more power..) then taking 4 jabs to the face because his opponent is not, in fact, a moron. There are of course ways to introduce more power into your blows in RL, for example holding an axe haft at the end allows you to put more force behind the blows, but it means you're moving it around, and more importantly changing direction etc. a lot slower. Not the kind of sacrifice you'd want to make in combat, I'd imagine.

 

[Manitas]

Now I see.

Such "haymakers" you are talking about indeed don't happen very often in boxing fights. But sometimes they do, dont they?
And I'd expect such powerfull blows to happen more often in battles, when many combatants are involved at a time.

Then again. I don't understand why to restrict it, and what makes the restriction realistic.

 

[Kissaki]

Such "haymakers" you are talking about indeed don't happen very often in boxing fights. But sometimes they do, dont they?
And I'd expect such powerfull blows to happen more often in battles, when many combatants are involved at a time.

Yes, you sometimes do see haymakers - typically by very tired and/or inexperienced fighters. Of course, a mass engagement is not the place for careful tip-toing about the ring, but on the other hand you don't really have the time or the energy to waste to launch a particularly powerful attack either (by which I mean an attack which is substantially more powerful than your other attacks). You may feint and make harassing attacks, but powerblows are generally not a good idea. Of course, the more tired you get the more effort you have to put into each attack to keep the power up, but when you get to the point that you have to put 100% into an attack, you've had it. Boxers don't get away with it, unless their opponent is equally spent. So you should not get away with it in less controlled circumstances either.

As a side note, here's the Kimbo vs. Gannon fight:

http://www.originalclips.com/media/fighting_video_clips/kimbo2.wmv

As one might expect, the tempo gets gradually slower because of fatigue. Fatigue is not implemented in M&B, however, and would be far more realistic than adding a build-up sequence that takes less than quarter of a second.

Then again. I don't understand why to restrict it, and what makes the restriction realistic.

Because realistically speaking, the "power up" takes virtually no time anyway (the attacks in M&B are on the slow side as it is), and any noticeable acceleration from stop to jog would give the game a syrupy feel. You have the gradual acceleration with horses, and that's good. But the speed you get in a walk/brisk walk/light jog is such that any visual effect of the acceleration is negligible.


I'd also tone down the insults, if I were you. It's symptomatic of one's arguments running out.

 

[Manitas]

Because realistically speaking, the "power up" takes virtually no time anyway (the attacks in M&B are on the slow side as it is),

If that was true, the powered up attack would be a very considerable option.

How long 'virtually no time' is? If we talked geology, it could be a year.

The truth is - it varies. In boxing you can 'power up' your right jab while performing a left jab, so it seems quite fast. But if you use a weapon it varies on weapon weight, length, mass displacement etc..
Sometimes making a power blow is a bad idea, sometimes not, but it's certainly possible to do.
I'm sure it would add a lot to the game, if implemented.

I'd also tone down the insults, if I were you. It's symptomatic of one's arguments running out.

I thought I got the meaning of the word 'insult' right. Anyway, I did not mean to offend anyone.

If you write things like that, it's best to point which of my statements you find offensive, and why.

 

[Kissaki]

Because realistically speaking, the "power up" takes virtually no time anyway (the attacks in M&B are on the slow side as it is),

If that was true, the powered up attack would be a very considerable option.

The attacks in M&B are on the heavy side. There are no quick set-up attacks of any kind, but I don't think the game would benefit from such realism anyway.

How long 'virtually no time' is? If we talked geology, it could be a year.

Certainly quicker than the attacks already in the game.

The truth is - it varies. In boxing you can 'power up' your right jab while performing a left jab, so it seems quite fast.

Just a technical note (I'm picky): a jab is a straight punch from the leading arm. A straight punch from the hind arm is a cross. But anyway you're right, the "power up" is quite invisible, as all punches are thrown from the guard anyway. But this much is true for weapons, as well.

But if you use a weapon it varies on weapon weight, length, mass displacement etc..

A weapon becomes merely an extention of the body, and one may in fact attack quicker with weapon than without (depending on the weapon, of course). This is because with a weapon, one can make a full attack with only slight wrist movements. Don't get me wrong, the whole body is always employed to some extent (foot, hip, shoulder, arm...), but the point is that a sword tip can move quite fast and deliberate with very little effort.

Sometimes making a power blow is a bad idea, sometimes not, but it's certainly possible to do.

I'm sure it would add a lot to the game, if implemented.

Certainly possible to do, and I'm not opposed to the idea if it's done right. For example, as I gallop towards my unsuspecting archer foe, I ready for the attack long before I reach him. Such an attack would be stronger than attacks made in the middle of a melee. Already my M&B character won't finish his attack until I actually release the mouse button, so I'm all for an increase in power the longer I hold. However, I don't want to see movement slow down as a consequence, nor should it take long to power up to max. In any case, powering up so much that you'd be inert afterwards is never a good idea. This is reserved for test cutting and should never be done on the battle-field, and I don't want the possibility to use this kind of power attacks either.

I'd also tone down the insults, if I were you. It's symptomatic of one's arguments running out.

I thought I got the meaning of the word 'insult' right. Anyway, I did not mean to offend anyone.

If you write things like that, it's best to point which of my statements you find offensive, and why.[/quote]

You said:

"It's clear that you have nothing to back that up.

Your eye can perceive the acceleration perfectly, but not directly. Maybe that's why you refuse to notice it. If there's no acceleration, then the movement seems unnatural to you."

That's what I found to be offensive. If this was merely rash, and not meant to be insulting, I apologize for the implication.

 

[Blink]

? Here lemme simplify all this stuff you guys turn into mathematics.

There is no stamina system!

There.

 

[HylianHero]

Let's everyone stop arguing about how to implement physics into a mouse and button and just wait for a sword fighting game on Nintendo's Revolution, lol.