Three biggest obstacles to Fun (Boring Loot, Lack of Buyable Items and Infinite Money)

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Midnitewolf

Sergeant
I recently came back after a long hiatus and am shocked to see that after almost a year of Early Access these three areas haven't improved at all.

LOOTING

Looting in this game has to be one of the most boring and unfun mechanics I have ever seen in any game with loot. It is just straight up junk...vendor trash. It is useful for about the first 5 hours of your playthrough and that is it. Instead of the excitement and anticipation a looting mechanic should generate, it just just another boring click. Sure the money you get from loot is useful but that is it. In any case the looting mechanic is so boring that 10-15 hours into a playthrough I find myself not even looking at the loot, I just click loot all, run to a city and click sell all and that is a horrible mechanic. Worse by mid game, once money no longer ever becomes an issue, it become a nuisance having to take it to town to sell so I find myself abandoning it even after a big battle fighting multiple enemy lords and the king. Looting should be exciting. I should always want to see what goodies I got after each battle and there should always be a chance something amazing or at least something potentially useful for my or my companions but we get nothing, no excitement, just boring trash loot over and over and over.

I am not sure why Taleworlds decided on such a complex mechanic to control loot but I can't help feel that the game would be 1000x better if looting was as simple as an RNG loot drop list that included at least some useful good or even great items.

BUYABLE ITEMS (OR LACK THERE OF)

This is another issue that ruins the game for me. There is nothing to buy until at least very late in your playthrough and even then the best stuff is never available. I know this is due to the production system and also that this production system is part of the issue why there is no loot and while great in theory, it sucks in practice. First of all, within the first minutes of starting a new game, I should be able to find amazing, high end items in the shops. This is important because it gives me goals to work toward. I need to see an amazing, but expensive piece of armor or sword and say to myself, "Damn that is cool, I want that but it is going to take me a long, long time to get it". Second, even without that, the best items need to be buyable well before 30-40 hours into your playthrough, I mean most AAA roleplaying games are almost complete 30-40 hours, having to wait that long to buy decent items is ridiculous. Also to be honest, I almost never see the real top end stuff and it is frustrating to see your own soldiers have better gear than yourself, the king.

Again I will say the same thing as I did about looting especially since I know the two are tied together. I just don't understand why Taleworlds would opt for such a complex system that obviously doesn't work when the game would be 1000x a better experience if shops just had a RNG list with set prices based on a cities prosperity actually allowing us to buy the best items day one IF we have the resources.

INFINITE MONEY

This is another major issue in my mind and I think it is tied to why production of buyable items and looting is such bad mechanics. Basically we just get too much money. Making money is only an issue for the first 5-10 hours in game and then only if you rush into a large, all elite army without building up your passive income sources. However, within this 5-10 hours you will easily get 2-3 workshops running and this will be more than enough to pay for a decent army. One you get here, it just snowballs in. You end up getting the rest of your shops open, get your caravans running and you got more money than you need. Add in the loot that is only good for selling and the gold starts piling up. Then you get a town and you will never run out of money again. Usually by 20-25 hours into your playthrough, you have at least a million of not millions of gold piled up and can buy anything in the game....if there was anything to buy. Best thing is just get 300 trade then you can just BUY all the fiefs in the game without even having to fight a single battle. I think this fact is taken into account with the looting and production systems and is one of the reasons why Taleworlds keeps you from having nice things. Basically looting a 300K items just make the infinite money system worse.

In conclusion, I realize Taleworlds was trying to build a complex living and breathing economic system and I applaud them for it but it just doesn't work. Its too complex, so complex that it ruins the game. Honestly since it has been a year with literally no progress at fixing the issue, I feel it just needs to be scraped. Use the KISS principle.

For Looting, just created a random loot table based on culture. Based on the size of the fight, have it generate 70% vendor trash, 25% decent items and 5% good or exceptional items for loot. Keep the loot down to maybe 20-30 items total.

For Production, similarly to looting, create a list of items that could be available in the shops based on culture. Assign values to items in this list so the cost can be 100% controlled so as to not cause a player become an instant millionaire because a decent items dropped. Make the appearance of higher end items be tied to the Town's prosperity, the higher the prosperity, the higher the chance of a higher end item being available for sale. Tie the pricing into the prosperity of the town. This allows for complete control of the economy. By using this method you can easily control the value of items, the value of loot, the value of trade, everything because it is developer assigned values rather than based on a complex formula that has already demonstrated as not working.

Finally, make earning gold harder. Reduce player income. This can be achieved because the pricing is now controlled and you don't have items worth 300k floating around out there. Because you know the prices of all items a player can buy and acquire, the amount of income a player can make can be more easily tailored the the economy.

In any case, Taleworlds has to do something and from the posts I have seen, small tweaks here and there aren't enough to fix the underlying issues.
 
for money, we need a money sink, I always thought of your fiefs as a great sink, maybe after tier 3 projects you could pay a huge amount to upgrade from there so your towns and castles could become really powerful, I am sure there are hundreds of great ideas from the community, but as TW said, if you don't like it go Mod, "their words"
 

redmark

Squire
BUYABLE ITEMS (OR LACK THERE OF)

This is another issue that ruins the game for me. There is nothing to buy until at least very late in your playthrough and even then the best stuff is never available. I know this is due to the production system and also that this production system is part of the issue why there is no loot and while great in theory, it sucks in practice. First of all, within the first minutes of starting a new game, I should be able to find amazing, high end items in the shops. This is important because it gives me goals to work toward. I need to see an amazing, but expensive piece of armor or sword and say to myself, "Damn that is cool, I want that but it is going to take me a long, long time to get it". Second, even without that, the best items need to be buyable well before 30-40 hours into your playthrough, I mean most AAA roleplaying games are almost complete 30-40 hours, having to wait that long to buy decent items is ridiculous. Also to be honest, I almost never see the real top end stuff and it is frustrating to see your own soldiers have better gear than yourself, the king.
In 1.5.7, I see top end armours, noble bows, woodland yew bows etc. in towns right from the start. I just don't recognise this criticism anymore.
 

Midnitewolf

Sergeant
In 1.5.7, I see top end armours, noble bows, woodland yew bows etc. in towns right from the start. I just don't recognise this criticism anymore.
OK fair enough. I stand corrected. I have to be honest and say I haven't updated to 1.5.7 yet because I knew it would break my mods and thus my save game. Since I hadn't seen any progress in a year I assumed a single patch wouldn't make that much difference.

How about the Looting? Did that all change and are we finally getting useful stuff in patch 1.5.7 or do we still get trash?
 

Apocal

Master Knight
How about the Looting? Did that all change and are we finally getting useful stuff in patch 1.5.7 or do we still get trash?
You still get busted items, but I've looted **** like T6 armor that even when broken is still leagues better than wearing the stuff I bought out of town.
 

Qwezz

Sergeant
I do agree we need more ways to spend money. For items it would be nice to get lordly modifiers back for armors, always was a thrill seeing a lordly plate armor in store for like 1mil in warband. But we also could get other money sinks for the late game. Books would always be a welcome additon, especially considering the state of the leveling system pepole would drop quite a sum for a boost. Spending money managing your fiefs should also be a possibility; organizing tournaments, feasts, etc. But the crux of the money issue is smithing at the end of the day, so I don't think it's fair to say looting or battles are the problem here.
 

redmark

Squire
OK fair enough. I stand corrected. I have to be honest and say I haven't updated to 1.5.7 yet because I knew it would break my mods and thus my save game. Since I hadn't seen any progress in a year I assumed a single patch wouldn't make that much difference.

How about the Looting? Did that all change and are we finally getting useful stuff in patch 1.5.7 or do we still get trash?
I've got roguery up to about 70 now, and had rusty legionary armour (value 45k or thereabouts) and a 15k+ 2h sword from a single large battle recently. Those are the best I've seen, but half decent (rusty) armour is common, plus good modified mid range head/arm/footwear.

Just back in the game, not worth as much as I thought - 13k for the sword and 16k for the armour. Battle was actually a conspiracy caravan quest battle.
 
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I agree we need more things to invest our money in, the problem is players? Devs saying "oh no if you add X player will be OP" and of course if TW wants to add more tings. Player is already OP because they're a human and not the depry AI the game currently has.
Adding fun and interesting things will just improve the game.
Do I crush the AI and feel unsatisfied that my Fiefs don't give me the troops I want to use? Oh look more ****ing empire recruits... oh wow lucky me
Or is better to crush the AI and also spend money to build up my fiefs with custom notables who give me the units I actually want? I'm the ****ing Lord I should be able to buy land and move at least 1 notable in!
How about a premium to recruit minor faction troops directly from their leader? They're not even OP so why not let me buy a full party of camel dudes if I want ( I want)?

And of course a secret base for your clan! Not a "too complicated" castle out of a village, just a base for the player, that the player spend money to build up!

How about a money lending business where we lend out money our to other Clans or notables and they pay us back with interest or favors?

I know, it's adding things to the game, probably not gonna happen. At least changing notables or getting minor clan units should be doable without over complicating things!

But a base! Refuge, hideout, House on the hill! Please TW, consider it!
 
I think I started a thread about loot a week or two ago, and the devs said that they were doing some internal tests with improving the chances of getting better loot, we might see something in 1.5.9. One thing I remember in one of their blogs or interviews where they were talking about Smithing I think, they said that there would be some unique weapons where you could get them after you defeat enemy lords, (I can't remember 100% but maybe it was that if you lost your unique weapon that you created in a battle you could get it back), but I think that would be a good thing to implement, some unique stuff that the AI lords could have that you could loot from them. Would keep the loot interesting even in late game where you and your companions are kitted in the highest level stuff. I don't know what happened to this feature, might be another thing that was cut from the game.
 
SMITHING SKILL, EQUIPMENT DETERIORATION and MAINTENANCE system, PRICE BALANCE.
ECONOMY, PRODUCTION, SOCIAL STABILITY, ARMIES MAINTENANCE and EQUIPMENT MAINTENANCE

I wrote these 2 threads in order to make the loot system more realistic and that this is also useful for the player.
Let's assume that for me the concept of "tier" must be an "emergent" categorization and not "arbitrarily posed".
The emergence of this categorization is a natural consequence of the different usefulness of the categorized objects.
In these 2 threads, as you will deduce from the titles, I talk about skill smithing and how it can be used in combination with the loot system and with that of equipment degradation both through use and over time.
The limits to the loot that can occur are removed and everything seen in battle will be part of the loot.
The point is that the loot will not be at 100% of its condition.
The more it is damaged and the less protection it offers, according to a math function you will see in the thread.
Depending on the condition, the price will also vary.
If a loot is run down but fixed it would be a piece of equipment you would like to have, then you will have to have it repaired by a blacksmith (high cost) or do it yourself (lower cost).
The smithing skill also helps you to resell the recovered loot at a higher price, since as a good blacksmith you know how to improve its condition practically without spending anything.
In short, in the threads I expose everything, even an entire economic system based on needs.
Read the threads as they are related to the topic.
They are linked together, like all my threads.
 

Midnitewolf

Sergeant

Check the last mod Artem mentioned.
Honestly I am of the opinion that most of the time in Warband and even Bannerlord, a mod will fix anything that the developer left broken but the modding community has deteriorated badly from when the EA first released. I am not sure if they are just losing interest or are waiting for the game to release so all the patching and changing doesn't constantly break their mods.
 
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