Thoughts on the Late Game? Any Benefit of being a King?

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Rbtparker13

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What it says on the tin. To me it doesn't appear late game has been improved at all since launch. Maybe been pushed back a 100 or so days. Possibly because of the deaths. Honestly as soon as I get a fief it starts to just become same old same old. Save influence, wait for elections of new fief, spend influence, repeat infinitely. Sometimes I have to deal with a red income but that's mostly because I rush things.

And the second thing. Is there any actual benefit of being a King nowadays? From what I experience it's basically just a pumped up vassal. Then again I'm almost never king since I get bored way to quickly for that.
 
You could turn it around and ask the question "What is the point of not being a king"

King: chain sieges and buying clans
Lord: ???



Edit. I think this reply could come of as rude which was not intended. So to clarify.

As you progress through the game more and more sources of progression is closed of or grinds to a halt. In the beginning you improve skills, gear up, improve your finances, build an army etc. Eventually these motivations disappear and need to be replaced with other sources of motivation; in this case basically have more land and vassals.

Is it enough? Not for me and probably not really for you either.

In fairness, it is not really a problem exclusive to Bannerlord/warband. On the top of my head I cant actually think of a game that have really succeeded in making the path from "I am now the strongest king in the world to I have conquered the whole map" engaging.

I have not personally conquered the whole map in Bannerlord and I really doubt that anyone would be able to come up with something that could compel me to do so.
 
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You can recruit lords as a vassal. Chain sieges too, once you stack enough influence.

(great bug too; you keep influence you gain as an independent clan via fiefs and supporters when you join a faction, nobody @ TW about it)
 
Well one benefit i on becoming king is that whenever you join a battle, you take full command. Meaning you don't have to worry about your allies going in full circle mode and getting their stuff killed.
 
You could turn it around and ask the question "What is the point of not being a king"

King: chain sieges and buying clans
Lord: ???



Edit. I think this reply could come of as rude which was not intended. So to clarify.

As you progress through the game more and more sources of progression is closed of or grinds to a halt. In the beginning you improve skills, gear up, improve your finances, build an army etc. Eventually these motivations disappear and need to be replaced with other sources of motivation; in this case basically have more land and vassals.

Is it enough? Not for me and probably not really for you either.

In fairness, it is not really a problem exclusive to Bannerlord/warband. On the top of my head I cant actually think of a game that have really succeeded in making the path from "I am now the strongest king in the world to I have conquered the whole map" engaging.

I have not personally conquered the whole map in Bannerlord and I really doubt that anyone would be able to come up with something that could compel me to do so.

Same feeling here and I have been arguing about this since months ago. There is a lot of motivation in early/mid game, but everything disappears in late game and it is all about conquering the world which turns into something really boring and repetitive. I find myself every time re-starting campaigns because the first 800 days or so are pretty enjoyable, and after that the game feels really empty and repetitive.

The main reason for that is aging pace which is too slow. Currently at day 600 in my 1.5.10 campaign, I am close to reach that point where the repetitiveness hits me hard and makes me stop playing. My son is just 7 years old, despite of having him within the first 100 days of campaign. Most of my support skills like trade, leadership, etc are around 150-200, but I really cannot find any incentive to continue leveling them up, because most of high level traits do not worth at all. My combat skills are laughable, 50-70 most of them, but I really do not need to improve them at all, and I can win tournaments with easy and get a lot of kills every battle. I could continue talking about why late game is so boring in this game, but not sure if it worths to expend time again on it. People usually ask for more and more content, which is ok, but the biggest reason because this game feels so boring after 700-800 days, is because most of existing features are poorly balanced and wasted (aging is the best example of a totally wasted feature due to poor balancing).
 
If you know how to play as a solo clan the NO, being a king is all downside and zero advantage. If you don't, then I guess it's all you get, it's not much differant then being a vassal though.
 
Well one benefit i on becoming king is that whenever you join a battle, you take full command. Meaning you don't have to worry about your allies going in full circle mode and getting their stuff killed.
Yeah, that's indeed an advantage.
There is a lot of motivation in early/mid game, but everything disappears in late game and it is all about conquering the world which turns into something really boring and repetitive. I find myself every time re-starting campaigns because the first 800 days or so are pretty enjoyable, and after that the game feels really empty and repetitive.
Yeah, it is literally an endless chain of recruiting lords, relieving sieges and counter-sieges towards the end. None of the factions really threaten the player faction either.
:cautious:
 
Yeah, it is literally an endless chain of recruiting lords, relieving sieges and counter-sieges towards the end. None of the factions really threaten the player faction either.
:cautious:
I'm not sure how they can massively up the difficulty in lategame when their design philosophy essentially prohibits giving the AI unfair advantages in most areas, while the game should be playable up until that point. But yes, some sort of threat when you've reached the stage of a King that doesn't instantly gobble you up, but keeps you focused in some fashion would work wonders. Some form of "aggressive expansion" modifier, coupled with coalitions against the player ala EU4? The AI prioritizing cutting the Kingdom down to size, instead of outright destruction?

As for other things to do to spice up lategame... just adding more Kingly things to do in general, that aren't specifically related to war seems to be the only way. I'm not sure that'll ever happen though.
 
None of the factions really threaten the player faction either.
:cautious:

Yes, that is true but to be honest, even if devs would put a huge effort on making the AI more challenging, the player would still has a huge advantage. Being able to “stop the time” when the player joins battles is the most OP thing we have. The player can be pretty decisive since the beginning, and all you have to do is to join every ally siege before enemy’s reinforcements arrive.

I would not disagree if siege preparations would get drastically increased, while assaulting settlements time would get drastically reduced in order to make the player’s advantage less impactful. But this won’t happen ever because it probably would bring other issues.

Anyway, even if the AI won’t be a challenge for the player ever (same happens in most of games), I am pretty sure that this game would be like x3 better and more enjoyable, if devs would balance aging&death pace and war pace together. Currently, war pace is insanely fast while aging pace is insanely slow.
 
I'm not sure how they can massively up the difficulty in lategame when their design philosophy essentially prohibits giving the AI unfair advantages in most areas, while the game should be playable up until that point. But yes, some sort of threat when you've reached the stage of a King that doesn't instantly gobble you up, but keeps you focused in some fashion would work wonders. Some form of "aggressive expansion" modifier, coupled with coalitions against the player ala EU4? The AI prioritizing cutting the Kingdom down to size, instead of outright destruction?
Yes, that's really close to what I had in mind.

The endgame should be about preparing for the point when pretty much every other kingdom realizes you're on a roll and bands together against you in a giant coalition. A handful of decisive battles, a few capital sieges, then when it is clear one side has come out on top and can coast on that advantage towards the finish, the game ends.

Without the player having to grind through every walled settlement on the map.
 
The endgame should be about preparing for the point when pretty much every other kingdom realizes you're on a roll
The question is how that realization is decided for the AI. I'm all for it, but assigning an arbitrary number of fiefs needed for a single faction might be too simple and interfere with how some people may want to play the game.

Without the player having to grind through every walled settlement on the map.
Yes, this always seemed fairly pointless.
 
The question is how that realization is decided for the AI. I'm all for it, but assigning an arbitrary number of fiefs needed for a single faction might be too simple and interfere with how some people may want to play the game.
I'd personally do it by field strength + half garrison strength with a moderate weighing for number of towns and villages applied. Once that value meets or exceeds the next three factions' value combined, it is time for coalition hellwar.
 
Anyway, even if the AI won’t be a challenge for the player ever (same happens in most of games), I am pretty sure that this game would be like x3 better and more enjoyable, if devs would balance aging&death pace and war pace together. Currently, war pace is insanely fast while aging pace is insanely slow.
Agreed, but adding in other mechanics that are a valid alternative to waging war, even with the world conquest goal in mind might bring enough variety so you're at least not all that burned out with repetitive battle after battle by the time you actually take on the rest of the map.

I'd personally do it by field strength + half garrison strength with a moderate weighing for number of towns and villages applied. Once that value meets or exceeds the next three factions' value combined, it is time for coalition hellwar.
Seems legit. And I don't really see why this wasn't put in as an anti-snowballing mechanic when player independent snowballing was such a large issue during EA. This could just as well be a general rule. The "coalition" of course would then have to react appropriately, so you don't get however many smaller armies running into the massive doomstack without any hope, and the coalition triggering proportions would need to be big enough to give a realistic chance.
 
Agreed, but adding in other mechanics that are a valid alternative to waging war, even with the world conquest goal in mind might bring enough variety so you're at least not all that burned out with repetitive battle after battle by the time you actually take on the rest of the map.


Seems legit. And I don't really see why this wasn't put in as an anti-snowballing mechanic when player independent snowballing was such a large issue during EA. This could just as well be a general rule. The "coalition" of course would then have to react appropriately, so you don't get however many smaller armies running into the massive doomstack without any hope, and the coalition triggering proportions would need to be big enough to give a realistic chance.

The world conquest goal is always an option and used in a lot of games. The problem is that it is the only viable option in Bannerlord, because there is not much to do aside from this in late game. Things like tournaments, quests, trade, characters development, etc, mostly disappear in late game. Yes, all these things are still present in late game, but there is not any incentive for doing these things in late game.

If you compare Bannerlord with CK3, it is not like if CK3 would have tons of features, but paradox games know how to fully take advantages of the few available features. In CK3 game you have a progression feeling, but you are constantly dealing with leveling up, arrange marriages, caring about having kids, finding replacement for dead court members, etc. The whole CK3’s fun moves around death&aging, and this game would be a huge garbage if aging&death pace would be as slow as it is in Bannerlord.

Devs have probably invested a huge effort on making aging&death feature works, and it is currently totally wasted because people rarely play with their kids, because the game gets really boring at late game and people start a new campaign. If we would have to deal with leveling up, getting money, finding new companions, arranging new marriages, having new kids, improving relationships with other clans, finding equipment for companions, leveling up new companions, etc, etc in our current campaign, we would not feel the need for starting a new one. What is currently happening is that the game is just forcing us to play endless wars while leaving aside all the other game features in late game, and these features are which make feel the early/mid game pretty so damn fun.

Bannerlord should learn from CK3 how to fully take advantage of all the game’s features in late game, while keeping a progression feeling for the player. It is actually not hard to achieve in Bannerlord, we currently have clan tier, money, items and owned fiefs which we keep after main character death... What we are currently missing, is having to face the MC death (with all consequences like having to marrying again, finding new companions, leveling up, etc, etc) more often.
 
You could turn it around and ask the question "What is the point of not being a king"

King: chain sieges and buying clans
Lord: ???



Edit. I think this reply could come of as rude which was not intended. So to clarify.

As you progress through the game more and more sources of progression is closed of or grinds to a halt. In the beginning you improve skills, gear up, improve your finances, build an army etc. Eventually these motivations disappear and need to be replaced with other sources of motivation; in this case basically have more land and vassals.

Is it enough? Not for me and probably not really for you either.

In fairness, it is not really a problem exclusive to Bannerlord/warband. On the top of my head I cant actually think of a game that have really succeeded in making the path from "I am now the strongest king in the world to I have conquered the whole map" engaging.

I have not personally conquered the whole map in Bannerlord and I really doubt that anyone would be able to come up with something that could compel me to do so.
Nah your original reply was fine. But the extra bit is amazing
Well one benefit i on becoming king is that whenever you join a battle, you take full command. Meaning you don't have to worry about your allies going in full circle mode and getting their stuff killed.
That's actually really useful
None of the factions really threaten the player faction either.
Especially with how prepared some people are when they become King. It's really isn't a contest anymore.
A coalitions would be great fun. But something that would let you have more Kingly duties would be best
 
Getting back into the game after a year of memory leak, I finally graduated from being mercenary or vassal to a king. So far, it really, really suck being a king, your vassals are mega dumb and constantly want war on multiple fronts, yet they can't even defend when the enemy counterattacks. Like, they can't even manage one war without screwing up. Vassals would keep losing fiefs without player's help. In my current 1.5.9e game, I'm currently bleeding money and fief because of the constant war demands against 4 fronts. I'm already buying clans left and right but there ain't enough peace time for me to build more wealth to buy more clans.
 
It should be good to be the King. Sure stressful full of backstabbers, war and troublemakers and diseased harems...of course there are problems. But what about someone sounding a Horn everytime you enter your city and subjects calling you sire or something that somehow distinguishes your position. Sandbox is meaningless unless it understands and reacts to major events or else there is literally no reason for being. None of this is difficult coding-wise they just chose to simply not care
 
Bannerlord should learn from CK3 how to fully take advantage of all the game’s features in late game, while keeping a progression feeling for the player. It is actually not hard to achieve in Bannerlord, we currently have clan tier, money, items and owned fiefs which we keep after main character death... What we are currently missing, is having to face the MC death (with all consequences like having to marrying again, finding new companions, leveling up, etc, etc) more often.

Agreed. To spice it up abit, clans ought to split when the patriarch/matriarch dies and fiefs get distributed amongst the siblings.
 
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