This is why skirmisher units in captains mode are trash.

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This pretty much sums up the issue with javelin units.

In the first clip over 1000 javelins are launched and NOT ONE shield was destroyed. The javelin units then proceeded to get dumpstered.
In the second clip 660 javelins were launched and again NOT ONE shield was destroyed. Also despite outnumbering the enemy inf they then proceeded to get dumpstered again.

The fix is simple. Make javelins break shields. This will give counter play the the heavy inf spam. Enemy inf can already automatically pick up spare shields if they lose theirs.
Also make skirmishers faster. It is silly that heavy inf with certain perks can easily run them down. kiting should be a legit strategy as javelins are low ammo and most of the time little damage.

The counter to skirmishers should be heavy and med inf reaching them + cavalry.
Cavalry itself is also in a bad state and I'll be making a separate post for that.
 

Zarthas

Knight at Arms
Good video, thanks for collecting this.

This problem is kind of deeper than that, unfortunately. It doesn't matter if you buff Javelin damage to shields (We did do that for a while), it still will not break those shields because of the Captain Shield Strength Multiplier being so outrageously high.

See here: Suggestion To Reduce Captain Shield Strength Multiplier


@badbuckle @MArdA TaleWorlds this is what I've been on about.

Check out where the Jareeds have impacted here. They are crowded around the top 10% of the shield. Many of these Jareeds would not have connected with the shield at all if it were not for the magical suction that shields do with projectiles. The Skirmishers should not be aiming for the head at those kinds of ranges

Bug Report: Throwing Troops Aim High and Miss High

Then, when the "Charge" order is given, watch the absurd random release of currently held javelins:
Javelins go flying all around the map in random directions and friendly fire galore.

Bug Report for this one.



All of this needs to be resolved before Skirmishers can ever have a hope at being useful.

Again, the Aserai Skirmisher has been bugged to have 14 Jareeds when the text clearly says it should have 9 for 7 months now and no one has cared because it doesn't matter, because javelins are useless and it doesn't matter how many you have.
 
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troechka33

Veteran
Shields are litterally designed to counter ****ty throwings like javalings. Cant wait to see what kind of cancer bs captain would be if the meta would be to take 6 light inf with throwings and run around.

Good luck trying to anihilate heavy inf shieldwall which is just standing still with javeling which deal as much damage as light bow.
Nothing can beat heavy inf spam by the core game design given equal skill. You play with bots vs bots as inf, then automatically the strongest unit should win. Yet still, factions like aserai and khuzait better off taking lightest inf for maximum strength.(in captain)

Being unable to kill battanian inf as aserai is different story though. The balance is really off even in skirmish where aserai WR is around 40% while battanian WR is >55% which only exponentially increases the power difference when fighing not 6v6 but 50v50.
So ask devs to balance and equal out melee capabilities of all inf unit packs instead of creating another level of imbalance.
 
Shields are litterally designed to counter ****ty throwings like javalings. Cant wait to see what kind of cancer bs captain would be if the meta would be to take 6 light inf with throwings and run around.

Good luck trying to anihilate heavy inf shieldwall which is just standing still with javeling which deal as much damage as light bow.
Nothing can beat heavy inf spam by the core game design given equal skill. You play with bots vs bots as inf, then automatically the strongest unit should win. Yet still, factions like aserai and khuzait better off taking lightest inf for maximum strength.(in captain)

Being unable to kill battanian inf as aserai is different story though. The balance is really off even in skirmish where aserai WR is around 40% while battanian WR is >55% which only exponentially increases the power difference when fighing not 6v6 but 50v50.
So ask devs to balance and equal out melee capabilities of all inf unit packs instead of creating another level of imbalance.

There is 0 reason to bring the low dps skirmishers over archers. Especially when their melee and armour is so horrible.

As for counter to 6 light inf, well cavalry should dumpster them, not to mention the limited ammo + reason to bring strong shield perks.
 

flashn00b

Sergeant at Arms
If we're to continue talking about Javelin throwers, one thing that personally bothers me is the Throwing Spear perk in Captain. Wildling is still one of my favourite units in that mode, and it really irks me that they prioritize throwing the Ash Throwing Spear over the three javelins they have on their person, cuz they're still a pretty decent pick as a medium infantry. I think it'd be worth it for skirmishers with throwing spears to use their javelins first before using their throwing spears. Sure, you'd still lose a decent amount of them, but i'd rather have SOME throwing spears to stab horses with than the controlled model be the only horse stabber in my unit.
 
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