This is probably the weirdest suggestion I've come up with

[Big J Money]

I'm a bit shy about posting something so brazenly unorthodox, but it hit me like lightning, so feel I should at least get it out of my head. Plus you guys are so cuddly.

What if Mount & Blade were only a module of some other, larger game? M&B is said to be an RPG. So far in the beta, there have yet to be any major RPG elements to the game. You do get to create a custom character and level that character up, but that's as far as we've seen yet, and it's pretty well polished. The team has more RPG stuff in the works, obviously. What we have right now is a kick-ass "medieval combat simulator". This combat is unquestioningly the hallmark element of M&B and likely the pride and joy of Mr. armagan. Thus, the upcoming RPG will most likely center around the combat. Everything about the RPG will have to do with these battles that we are fighting right now in the beta. The proof is the character sheet. There are very few, if any, improvable character elements that have to do with things unrelated to combat. Even the trade skill affects the purchasing of equipment--equipment which is used in combat.

My point is that if the development team is setting goals and creating deadlines, this game will be very, very, VERY combat focused. In fact, it might even be more accurate to call it a "medieval combat simulator" than an RPG!

So why can't M&B be just Act I? Act I of a very large RPG that featured all kinds of aspects of medieval life? M&B would be the combat portion. Another portion might involve nobility and politics. Another portion might involve turn-based (or real time) strategy. Yet another might involve an economy and crafting system similar to Harvest Moon? And what if all these games could plug in to each other to create one serious hell of a game?

Yeah, this is a pretty stupid idea. That's why I don't make games.

=$= Big J Money =$=

 

[The Mouth of Sauron]

I see what your getting at, and I would definitely want to see it come to pass.

 

[thesneakster]

Well, to get 1) thing straight, there is no dead line, publishers, or any goals, that we know of. Armagan has stated before that he is making the game to his thought of what it should be like, he won't stop makeing it until he's ready. He has been going for 4 years already, so I don't see why another 2 at least wouldn't be a problem.

2), what rpg skills do you think there should be that arn't combat related?

3) you have troops commands. You now can oder different types of troops around. I'd be very, very suprised if Armagan didn't improve on that. If games like AoE II could have troops form into lines and basic formations, then M&B can to.

4) As for Politics, the lombard leagues mod http://forums.taleworlds.com/viewtopic.php?t=6682&start=0 When it comes out, will feature politics, in teh form of offices, and you can earn nobilty (somehow that doesn't sound right)

5) as for economics, well, there is already a tradig system in place, with city's that produce different amounts of goods at diffferent prices. I'm suer that Armagan would probably be doing something with making it more dynamic, e.g. kill a caravan goig into a certain town, and the price for some goods goes up.

6) of course, it goes without saying that the combat part of M&B is, and will continue to be realyy good.

So, in conclusion, Why bother to make different came that join together to make "One serious hell of a game", when M&B on it's own is already that. Anyway, you couldn't do all of that at once, Could you?
So you still get a cookie, for the Creativity of the idea, and if enough people suggest a Dynamic trading system it should be done. Go pester Armagan. Well, not pester, just suggest it to him. Repetedly

 

[FurionLumin]

Well, they'll probably work on more of the non-combat areas of the game later. There are kingdoms, and you can own a castle, so my guess is that you may be able to found your own kingdom. Hell, eventually you might be able to create heroes from training troops very far, make towns, get gold from raising towns..

As for Mr. sneakster's second statement. They could implement a persaude skill, having to do with charisma. Use it to try and persaude yourself out of sticky situations (being hunted by a kingdom, attacked by some units, getting out of jail) or barter for lower prices.

Possibly the ability to try and get two units to stop fighting each other (units that are already in combat). Like, a peace-making ability.

Or an ability to hunt for food. Like in a forest, or fishing in the sea/river. An ability to cook. To cut down trees for lumber, mine for ore, farm for food. Could sell it to towns, make equipment, or supply a kingdom.

There are so many non-combat skills that could be nice to have.

 

[thesneakster]

If I was feeling like a real bastard i would go ahead and explain how all of those could be linked to combat. Basically, everyone will fight someone some day and that means that your helping them do that and so it's a combat skill

But, i'm not actually saying that. I think the additon of these skills would be good, and like you said, they will most likely be added at a later date.

 

[FurionLumin]

Well, he basically means a direct connection to combat.

Smithing could directly connect to combat because of making weapons/armour, but something like Peace-making only has to do with combat because you're -trying- to stop it. It doesn't help you in anyway while fighting, nor does a persausion. It does the opposite; try to get you OUT of fighting. The rest could be down for feeding/arming yourself or hirelings, but... they could be used to sell or help out your kingdom =p

 

[thesneakster]

I'll work on my sarcasm. Sorry

 

[Big J Money]

Sorry

Damn your sarcasm!! *shakes fist in anger*

Oh, you meant that.

Sneak, you sure about the deadlines thing? I assume armagan sets deadlines only because it costs him tons of money to put time into this game. If it goes on for another 2 or 4 years, the money spent making it might exceed potential gains. If he's designing this game expecting to lose money -- as a hobby -- then I can understand him not setting deadlines for himself.

Deadlines or not, there are some things I don't realistically ever expect to see in M&B that would increase the enjoyment of the game: non-combat roles are one of them. It could be pretty cool to have commerce. In a system with commerce, you could have your character learn how to mine iron. Then, once he's real good, he can take a couple adventurous towns-people and find an untapped iron vein and build a colony around it. Eventually, with enough hard work and employee management, the a mine could be created and used to produce raw materials for the new colony to export. Eventually, with enough town management skills, the colony could turn into a village, town and then city, with the player eventually being the town elder, and maybe even earning nobility status if the town is dedicated to the Swadians or the Vaegirs. This could be cool, but I seriously doubt we'll ever see anything like it in M&B.

Why would we want that in M&B anyway? And honest question, which deserves an honest answer. All of the bit about learning to mine, creating a mining colony, and then eventually running the mining town and earning a title is N times more fun when it is set in front of the back drop of a fully realized world full of marauding river pirates, sea raiders and dark hunters. Frequent attacks from mountain bandits and protection money given to stave off Swadian deserters makes the concept more exciting. If the player also develops his combat skills, maybe he can repel the irksome mountain bandits himself by rallying the townspeople and defending the town. Even more reason for those townspeople to elect you their leader.

Again, it's probably a pie in the sky idea, but a mega game that includes more elements than one stand-alone game can possible allow seems like an interesting notion to me. And what's better is that all along the way you get to play pieces of it as they are released.

=$=

 

[Letum]

The main problem I can see is the vast ammount of work this would cause. Why not just roll it all in to the one game - i.e. mount and blade!

 

[Stonkey]

Yeah, it would take forever. I want the final thing to come out and not have to wait for more updates and stuff. Or, if they were to be separated into various different games that you can somehow combine, I would not want to pay for 3-4 more games to get the full experience.

 

[Abernathy]

Yeah, it would take forever. I want the final thing to come out and not have to wait for more updates and stuff. Or, if they were to be separated into various different games that you can somehow combine, I would not want to pay for 3-4 more games to get the full experience.

I actually share this vision (fantasy, call it what you will), and I also know it's pie in the sky - but without this kind of imagination, what do we do but accept limitations and excuses?

Not that Armagan or M&B are doing this by any stretch of the imagination - quite the opposite in fact, M&B is stirring up these kind of feelings, this kind of enthusiasm, breathing new life into an Artform that the likes of EA have all but turned into the world's latest consumer-ripoff money making scheme!

I had a similar vision myself many moons ago with Sim City - I thought, "hell, if I can create a city, surely the city has stories to tell"...

And yes indeed - M&B has an incredible combat engine and vast potential for a complex political setting - so why not let someone talented add a Mine scenario, a slave-trading scenario, whatever?

It's hard to describe how this idea is seperated from modding, but I think I can relate to exactly where Mr. Money is coming from, and it's a glorious place!!!

 

[Flaming Eyes]

Friend, I think is a good idea, but I think Mr. Armagan and Ipek thought since the begining that M&B wasnt just a battle game. I think what you say will be made.

I think the game will have three basic modes:

Story Mode
Free Mode (as is now, but you can become a king... )
Mods (User-maded modes)

 

[NNOBDY]

To O.P.,

Yay

 

[Big J Money]

I've been away for a while, so I'll respond to this only a little.  Yes, mods could achieve some of this, but I can't really offer any good suggestions because I don't know how powerful the modding abilities are, nor do I have an ounce of experience with modding myself.  So, it's hard for me to say, "it would be nice if..." when I don't even know if it's feasible.  Adding a whole non-combat dimension to M&B sounds like the kind of stuff that goes beyond modability, but maybe my hunch is wrong.

If it's possible, are there even any modders out there who would care to add non-combat gameplay to M&B?  Things like resource gathering, crafting, trade routes, etc. etc.  I suppose one could start small, and then gradually add on.  Maybe start with a mode that adds NPC traders who go from town to town.  The player can begin to play a "stock market" game where he puts money (funds) in the trade routes he thinks will be successful, and if it is successful, he makes profit.  That wouldn't be a lot, but it would be a start.  The trade skill could be used in such transations somehow.

Can new skills be modded?

=$=

 

[thesneakster]

I've been away for a while, so I'll respond to this only a little.  Yes, mods could achieve some of this, but I can't really offer any good suggestions because I don't know how powerful the modding abilities are, nor do I have an ounce of experience with modding myself.  So, it's hard for me to say, "it would be nice if..." when I don't even know if it's feasible.  Adding a whole non-combat dimension to M&B sounds like the kind of stuff that goes beyond modability, but maybe my hunch is wrong.

If it's possible, are there even any modders out there who would care to add non-combat gameplay to M&B?  Things like resource gathering, crafting, trade routes, etc. etc.  I suppose one could start small, and then gradually add on.  Maybe start with a mode that adds NPC traders who go from town to town.  The player can begin to play a "stock market" game where he puts money (funds) in the trade routes he thinks will be successful, and if it is successful, he makes profit.  That wouldn't be a lot, but it would be a start.  The trade skill could be used in such transations somehow.

Can new skills be modded?

=$=

Well, The Lombard Leagues Mod is now in closed beta testing, and it's add's a whole heap on diplomavy options (although, set in it's period of italy, politics involve some fighting), but you have to get ellected to posts ect. Should be answering some of your wishes

also, good to see your back+ still keeping this thread alive

 

[Ingolifs]

Although Lombard leagues hasn't added much to the areas of trading, and none at all to crafting, so it's not quite what he means on that front.

The stuff that big J money talks about with stock market etc, couldn't have happened in that time period. Ask Khalid, and he'll tell you that mediaeval economy was horribly restricted and stagnated by lots of guild rules that stifled trade. Besides, the stock market is a recent invention anyway.

Oh, and new skills can't be modded. They're hardcoded.

 

[thesneakster]

Well, if you wan't crafting, there are, not one, but two (last time i checked, they may have been merged), Crafting mod's being made

 

[Ingolifs]

Doesn't Onin no ran have something similar where you collect the raw materials, give them to the smith, and the smith makes the weapon for you?

 

[thesneakster]

Doesn't Onin no ran have something similar where you collect the raw materials, give them to the smith, and the smith makes the weapon for you?

Yeah, but i beleive, that Winters Crafting mod will let you do it your self, but i'mnot 100% sure. it doesn't say on the first post in the thread about it (the first post is more of a request/progress post)

 

[calandale]

Indeed, Winter's mod does let you do it yourself.