This is an open letter, aimed at revealing the China censorship going on right now by the Chinese mods,TW should be report investigate progess

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X_Lancer

Recruit
Actually I experienced Racism before In Canada. I once tryed to apply for a job and the application said "White people not to apply" You can't even say Merry christmas in Canada without offending someone. I visited China once, first impression I got was "Hey round eyes" And an attempt to get me scammed at one of their scam bars. And Honestly on the NA server people are doing this too but people ignore it.

Edit: if you are Chinese asian.

If you lived in Canada, then I assumed your parents were migrants from Hong Kong (migration wave before the handover in 1997).

And you must have experienced some white guy said Ching Chong to you before.

Racism is quite common towards asians in western countries, but asian such as Chinese (in terms of race) will often ignore it.

The main point is, this is not just people are thinned skinned, but the right to against who discriminate you.

If you are really from HK, then u would know that Chinese like naming disease with other country. (HONG KONG FEET) Suddenly this becomes a big no no when Chinese are the victim, ironic.

As I said, I do not believe that you come from Hong Kong. When I am staying in Canada, Canadian know I am not Chinese once I spoke.Hong Kongers have distinct accient.

No, the first expression for them is that you are Asian based on your physical appearance. There are only few white Canadians can distinguish whether you are from Hong Kong and mainland China.

Naming disease as you said, is quite common in the world, but no one talks about Hong Kong feet right now.
 
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johnNOVHn

Regular
No, the first expression for them is that you are Asian based on your physical appearance. There are only few white Canadians can distinguish whether you are from Hong Kong and mainland China.

Naming disease as you said, is quite common in the world, but no one talks about Hong Kong feet right now.

Imagine saying Hong Kong feet in game will get you banned. Yeah this is the goal of Chinese.

Thats why there should not be censorship in any games (including bannerlord). If Chinese virus is banned, how about Hong Kong feet, how about german measles , how about...

As I said , Chinese gotta learn to ignore what they dislike rather than asking for bans.
 

X_Lancer

Recruit
Imagine saying Hong Kong feet in game will get you banned. Yeah this is the goal of Chinese.

If I found one and the player keep spamming offensive words towards Hong Kong, I will definitely report that.

Edit: Please stick to the topic.
 
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Habut

Sergeant
WB
Again, let me reiterate this point. It seems some people still don't understand. The "evidence", specifically the screenshots you guys yourself posted actually shows most of those bans were justified by the rules.

Heres the thing. Going to any server and saying stuff like "ching chongs" or "these asian ****s" in a derogatory manner will get you banned. You can try going to EU or NA servers and doing the same thing, the result will be the same. You will also get banned. If you want to argue against those rules, then go ahead. However the fact remains. Those bans probably weren't due to some Chinese censorship. You went to the server and said some stupid, racist and derogatory **** and gotten banned by the rules.

I understand if you want to fight against Chinese censorship but this isn't the way. This way you are giving them legitimate reasons to ban you. Literally the screenshots you posted as evidence shows you were saying stupid stuff.

Other than that it is possible the chinese mods lied while submitting reports. Even if this is the case that doesn't mean CCP is censoring you. Again I want to point out the servers aren't even in China.
 
Again, let me reiterate this point. It seems some people still don't understand. The "evidence", specifically the screenshots you guys yourself posted actually shows most of those bans were justified by the rules.

Heres the thing. Going to any server and saying stuff like "ching chongs" or "these asian ****s" in a derogatory manner will get you banned. You can try going to EU or NA servers and doing the same thing, the result will be the same. You will also get banned. If you want to argue against those rules, then go ahead. However the fact remains. Those bans probably weren't due to some Chinese censorship. You went to the server and said some stupid, racist and derogatory **** and gotten banned by the rules.

I understand if you want to fight against Chinese censorship but this isn't the way. This way you are giving them legitimate reasons to ban you. Literally the screenshots you posted as evidence shows you were saying stupid stuff.

Other than that it is possible the chinese mods lied while submitting reports. Even if this is the case that doesn't mean CCP is censoring you. Again I want to point out the servers aren't even in China.
Again, we wre not talking about CCP censoring us, but Chinese player did.
 
Again, let me reiterate this point. It seems some people still don't understand. The "evidence", specifically the screenshots you guys yourself posted actually shows most of those bans were justified by the rules.

Heres the thing. Going to any server and saying stuff like "ching chongs" or "these asian ****s" in a derogatory manner will get you banned. You can try going to EU or NA servers and doing the same thing, the result will be the same. You will also get banned. If you want to argue against those rules, then go ahead. However the fact remains. Those bans probably weren't due to some Chinese censorship. You went to the server and said some stupid, racist and derogatory **** and gotten banned by the rules.

I understand if you want to fight against Chinese censorship but this isn't the way. This way you are giving them legitimate reasons to ban you. Literally the screenshots you posted as evidence shows you were saying stupid stuff.

Other than that it is possible the chinese mods lied while submitting reports. Even if this is the case that doesn't mean CCP is censoring you. Again I want to point out the servers aren't even in China.
I legit ask a hongkonger friend to translate all the evidence he says everyone is nitpicking 2 out of 20 of the evidence about racism.
 

johnNOVHn

Regular
Again, let me reiterate this point. It seems some people still don't understand. The "evidence", specifically the screenshots you guys yourself posted actually shows most of those bans were justified by the rules.

Heres the thing. Going to any server and saying stuff like "ching chongs" or "these asian ****s" in a derogatory manner will get you banned. You can try going to EU or NA servers and doing the same thing, the result will be the same. You will also get banned. If you want to argue against those rules, then go ahead. However the fact remains. Those bans probably weren't due to some Chinese censorship. You went to the server and said some stupid, racist and derogatory **** and gotten banned by the rules.

I understand if you want to fight against Chinese censorship but this isn't the way. This way you are giving them legitimate reasons to ban you. Literally the screenshots you posted as evidence shows you were saying stupid stuff.

Other than that it is possible the chinese mods lied while submitting reports. Even if this is the case that doesn't mean CCP is censoring you. Again I want to point out the servers aren't even in China.

Have you ever read those evidence? Are you referring to Chinese rule? Geez
 
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Emil

Squire
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
No-one can deny the fact that it's very strange and suspicious how it all took place on another forum. These reports may very well go for the whole multi-player. However, the Chinese moderators has no direct control of issuing bans as OP implies, but it means they might have lied in their reports to TW in order to ban innocent users such as John Meade, whose sole crime was to use an ordinary profile picture of Xi Jinping. Whether all are innocent, that's not even the main point. It's censorship and many are quick to defend it. It must feel nice and safe to be privileged enough to jump to quick conclusions and support the culture of totalitarian regimes.

OT: If you really want to pressure TW. Send those documents to game news outlets. It's ironic when Valorant is made by Chinese developers, but Bannerlord is more heavily moderated for its chat. I've learnt to live with various discussions in MNB since Battle mode in NW where you could wait 10 minutes if a bullet took you at the start of the round. If TW want to make players afraid to chat, or even go into the multi-player, they've succeeded.
 
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Habut

Sergeant
WB
Have you ever read those evidence?

Yes, sorry I cannot read chinese but everything I mentioned was there. At least one of those pictures were linked in here as well. Again it is possible they were very few compared to others. No matter what it just doesn't paint a good picture overall when your evidence for getting banned wrongfully shows you were being racist.

I cannot verify this but someone said Chinese players are also getting banned for insulting Taiwanese people as well.

Overall I think it will lead to servers being separated I guess. Maybe when that happens you can argue about CCP censorship on Chinese servers.
 
Yes, sorry I cannot read chinese but everything I mentioned was there. At least one of those pictures were linked in here as well. Again it is possible they were very few compared to others. No matter what it just doesn't paint a good picture overall when your evidence for getting banned wrongfully shows you were being racist.

I cannot verify this but someone said Chinese players are also getting banned for insulting Taiwanese people as well.

Overall I think it will lead to servers being separated I guess. Maybe when that happens you can argue about CCP censorship on Chinese servers.
So 1 bad evidence is enough to say that all of them are false? Also if the chinese had their own servers, we wouldnt be here now would we?
 

Emil

Squire
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Maybe when that happens you can argue about CCP censorship on Chinese servers.
There was at least one Chinese moderator on the forum in the screenshots who followed the Chinese censorship / national pride-law, rather than any policies created by TaleWorlds. This means they implemented such a national law onto others, eg, OC/AS-countries as well as any potential EU/NA/SA-players using the siege servers in the serverlist (or if you got into a match-made game with Chinese players). I doubt you'd consider it weird if I imply you are only punishable by the laws of the country in which you are staying.
No matter what it just doesn't paint a good picture overall when your evidence for getting banned wrongfully shows you were being racist.
Imagine being banned because you have a Steam(!) name or profile picture which a Big Brother agent considers is vulgar. It might be a weeb, furry or picture of a public figure. No-one here argues against correct decisions taken by TW/the Chinese moderators. However, I doubt TW double-checked profile pictures as they might've found chat logs for most but doubt they see a picture there, so they might just have found the individual trustworthy to go on his or her words. I recommend reading my previous comment too. One wrongful 10 year ban is one too many.
 

Habut

Sergeant
WB
There was at least one Chinese moderator on the forum in the screenshots who followed the Chinese censorship / national pride-law, rather than any policies created by TaleWorlds. This means they implemented such a national law onto others, eg, OC/AS-countries as well as any potential EU/NA/SA-players using the siege servers in the serverlist (or if you got into a match-made game with Chinese players). I doubt you'd consider it weird if I imply you are only punishable by the laws of the country in which you are staying.

However, I doubt TW double-checked profile pictures as they might've found chat logs for most but doubt they see a picture there, so they might just have found the individual trustworthy to go on his or her words. I recommend reading my previous comment too. One wrongful 10 year ban is one too many.

Yes that is clearly an evidence should be presented to TW. They should deal with that mod if the mod had any power and abused it in the first place. However that still doesn't mean Chinese censorship, that is just power abuse by the mods.

There are no 10 year bans. It was temporarily set that high to check later. This was stated many times by Callum like 10 days ago. Also that one guy who got banned for 10 years were playing on NA server AFAIK. Unless there were others as well.

Sorry but this whole thing was overblown by a huge margin. People were and still is to an extend claiming TW secretly handed CCP server admin rights or some ****. 10 year ban thing was also misrepresented. This way both sides will get lower player numbers in their servers, good job I guess.

Also if the chinese had their own servers, we wouldnt be here now would we?

Also if people could behave and play an online game we wouldn't be here as well.
 

johnNOVHn

Regular
Yes that is clearly an evidence should be presented to TW. They should deal with that mod if the mod had any power and abused it in the first place. However that still doesn't mean Chinese censorship, that is just power abuse by the mods.

There are no 10 year bans. It was temporarily set that high to check later. This was stated many times by Callum like 10 days ago. Also that one guy who got banned for 10 years were playing on NA server AFAIK. Unless there were others as well.

Sorry but this whole thing was overblown by a huge margin. People were and still is to an extend claiming TW secretly handed CCP server admin rights or some ****. 10 year ban thing was also misrepresented. This way both sides will get lower player numbers in their servers, good job I guess.



Also if people could behave and play an online game we wouldn't be here as well.

Dude I see why you are so mad. U got the whole point wrong. We want devs to give a detailed explanation rather than dropping a post saying that they are looking into it.

What is Chinese mod relationship with TW? Will devs withdraw Chinese mod power (if any)?

I want devs to clear things up for us too so that we can stop guessing.
 

HwuSam

Recruit
Again, let me reiterate this point. It seems some people still don't understand. The "evidence", specifically the screenshots you guys yourself posted actually shows most of those bans were justified by the rules.

Heres the thing. Going to any server and saying stuff like "ching chongs" or "these asian ****s" in a derogatory manner will get you banned. You can try going to EU or NA servers and doing the same thing, the result will be the same. You will also get banned. If you want to argue against those rules, then go ahead. However the fact remains. Those bans probably weren't due to some Chinese censorship. You went to the server and said some stupid, racist and derogatory **** and gotten banned by the rules.

I understand if you want to fight against Chinese censorship but this isn't the way. This way you are giving them legitimate reasons to ban you. Literally the screenshots you posted as evidence shows you were saying stupid stuff.

Other than that it is possible the chinese mods lied while submitting reports. Even if this is the case that doesn't mean CCP is censoring you. Again I want to point out the servers aren't even in China.


IMO, we make some bad example about racism like Ching Chong indeed. But i don't think every words are racism if you really look up these evidences like winnie the pooh, corona virus even Tienanmen(historical Massacre)...

You talk about try going to EU or NA servers and doing the same thing will be the same, but the main point is China forum put their rules to whole servers not even China server. And reminds me noticed you that the first Taiwan victim players get banned from Asia server, How about Winnie?
How about John Meade? Did they played in "China server" ? Your logic just like put every Asian player are belong to China and they deserve it.

We're not picking this fight or against in first, It's Chinese censorship making ours or/ yours have no choice. Ofc We can keep silence and nerdy in game but someone have to speak up and let the community know the truth.

First they came for the Taiwan and Hong Kong, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Chinese.

Then they came for the Asia, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Asian.

Then they came for the Europe, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a European.

Then they came for me—
and there was no one left to speak for me.

**EDIT I HOPE THE DISCUSSION DON'T GETTING SIDETRACKED, THANKS.
 
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Vindred

Recruit
If I found one and the player keep spamming offensive words towards Hong Kong, I will definitely report that.

Edit: Please stick to the topic.

There is indeed utility in attempting to gaslight here by pretending that what he said is not on topic, because it is a devastating synopsis of the entire issue.

What if you could be banned for saying hong kong feet? What if you could be banned for showing the flag of your own country?

China bans people for minutiae, and they are banning people other than their own. That's another way of summarizing it. But I like Hong Kong Feet better.
 

Emil

Squire
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
However that still doesn't mean Chinese censorship, that is just power abuse by the mods.
No-one implies Winnie the Pooh personally ordered the bans, but it doesn't rid the topic of it's importance or purpose. TaleWorlds should, being a good and transparent company, have the utmost sensitivity in employing trustworthy moderators. If they would have done a tiny background check, IQ test or political test, or a Google search on their username, then stuff like this might've been avoided. Greed happened. China is a big market, and who cares about freedom of speech anyway. Amirite?
There are no 10 year bans. It was temporarily set that high to check later. This was stated many times by Callum like 10 days ago. Also that one guy who got banned for 10 years were playing on NA server AFAIK. Unless there were others as well.
That's what they imply. I do however believe it was the backlash that made them revert that action because other game companies has received large backlash for similar events (trusting Chinese moderators with power/following their laws), and that's precisely why threads like these are important, in order to put pressure on democratic issues which should not be necessary to begin with online and in a gaming community.
This way both sides will get lower player numbers in their servers, good job I guess.
Also if people could behave and play an online game we wouldn't be here as well.
Yes, if TaleWorlds and the Chinese moderators can scare players off by issuing heavy game-wide bans, rather than developing chat filters. I'm sure they'll do great in killing the community before private servers or the balance is complete. I haven't logged in for two weeks, but since I've had an active part in not being pro-censorship, I've hidden all and any links to my Steam account out of worry that anyone would try to pin stuff on me in order to have me banned in-game.
 

eddiemccandless

Knight at Arms
WBNWVC
Alright, I really should know better but I just can't stand to see people distorting facts that much. One or two cases of racism and trolling? Let's see shall we?

Directly from the "Reports for Political reasons" folder in the attached evidence.

7NKXT.png

Here we see a report for a user named CCP Virus with a general complain about "insults and hate speech towards CCP, the country and the government". There is no evidence for what the user actually said, it could have been insults against Chinese people or it could have been attacks on the Chinese government. We have no way of knowing which it is by this screenshot alone. But it becomes clear which it was in a later screenshot.

7NKXT.png

"Rather be an American dog than a Chinese man", seems pretty much like a racist insult embedded into their nickname. +1 for flaming/trolling.

PJgSy.png

Auracrow here is definitely being toxic, yes? "I will find where you live", that a brave political activist for you? +2

4BUn8.png

As far as I can tell this proves that a certain group of players was reported. Let me know if I am missing something here, I am not sure what the cropped image at the bottom of the corner is supposed to represent. I see no signs of political fight in this screenshot.

WCUAE.png

"china who carry the virus through the world", perhaps this one is more borderline since it is not a straight up insult, although it looks to me like this person is looking for a fight over a sensitive issue (start a thread like that on this forum and see how long you last). But I am feeling generous, let's consider this a case of political censorship. +1 for that.

QPJtd.png

It took me a moment to figure out what CCP Virus means here, I had to google what cnmb and nmsl mean. Spoiler alert: they are pretty heavy insults in Chinese. So turns out that CCP Virus was indeed insulting Chinese players, and not bravely attacking the government. +1 for trolling which brings us at +3.

aoOdF.png

Alright, this one is political. Once more, I suspect that if you randomly start making threads over sensitive political issues on this forum this won't go well for you, and it looks to me like this person was deliberately looking for a fight, but let's go with the policy that this should be allowed. +2 politics, +3 trolling.

pbTfO.png

I have no clue about what this is supposed to prove. Is there something in the Chinese name which is not being translated?

cZXEF.png

This proves that they have hidden content on the forum, which is pretty standard when it comes to handling moderation (e.g. flaming threads and posts here get deleted, not just locked). No points one way or another.

WxSY-.png

Someone being reported for having a politician as profile picture, definitely political and if this is the only reason that this person was reported then sure, that should not warrant a ban. +3/3

KM5KW.png

Ah, my favorite. We have multiple cases of people flaming/insulting Asian people (not just Chinese people), and those are being labeled as "victims". Way to provide objective evidence. This is the screenshot that makes me doubt really strongly that the person who prepared this files is Asian, since I don't see how anyone who is Asian could label people with this kind of behavior as "victims". +4 for trolling, althought there's multiple people doing it in the same screenshot. But let's count it as one.

b6OVP.png

Alright, this one is political, +4/+4

J743q.png

All I can see here is someone throwing bad words at people in main (**** ni hao ma is like saying **** ciao pizza to an Italian). +5 trolling

OcV73.png

+1 for political. +5/+5

7HuPP.png

I agree that banning someone for using a cartoon image in general is ridiculous, but winnie the poo was actually used to spread Asian hate recently


So I would argue that this is not quite as black and white as you might think (for clarity, this is not me suggesting that we should ban people over Winnie the Poo avatars, let's go with a +6 here).

The last one is another screenshot of the user with president Xi's avatar, which I already covered before. So +6 for political/general censorship, +5 flaming.

There is a mix of trolling and political posts in the evidence provided, which is at best split almost even. It's not just one or two racial insults. Based on the evidence that is being provided, the opinion that I am forming is that this "winnie happy organization" is a group of people that came to this server explicitly to flame Chinese (and honestly in some cases just Asian) players, mixing political references that are known triggers for the Chinese with plain racism and trolling. They inevitably got reported, and their ban was grossly mishandled which lead to this whole thing blowing up. Now they are trying to play victims, and are being defended by a number of posters that suspiciously appear to have joined this forum just to press this issue (plus some others that are posting in good faith, and I appreciate that and respect their opinion). I also find it very suspicious that there appears to be a high number of Western players that were involved in this, and take issue on people with obnoxiously toxic behavior being labeled as "victims".

I do not support CCP nor censorship. I am Italian, so I absolutely have no stake in this. And I agree that TW should issue an official statement on this, more transparency is always good. But I find it ridiculous that freedom of speech is being used as an excuse to defend toxic behavior and blatant racism. Especially when we see enough of this crap on Facebook and Twitter, we absolutely do not need this kind of behavior on a game. There is already enough hate being thrown around in this world.
 

cheeaboo

Recruit
If you are really from HK, then u would know that Chinese like naming disease with other country. (HONG KONG FEET) Suddenly this becomes a big no no when Chinese are the victim, ironic.

As I said, I do not believe that you come from Hong Kong. When I am staying in Canada, Canadian know I am not Chinese once I spoke.Hong Kongers have distinct accient.
Lmao I’m pretty sure it is also called “Hong Kong feet” in Cantonese isn’t it? Plus I did read some story saying that it is called “Hong Kong feet” because when Hong Kong was ruled by the UK, a lot of British soldiers had fungal infection on their feet because of the humid, tropical weather of Hong Kong, not sure if they were more reliable than your claim that this name was invented by the Chinese lol.

Also if you keep digressing and keep attacking ad hominem then this discussion isn’t going anywhere. Doing so does not consolidate your point, but only undermines your integrity.
 

Vindred

Recruit
There is already enough hate being thrown around in this world.

What you call hate appears to just be rebelliousness, and without control it is useless at worst and comical at best. You just don't have a sense of humor, and it is causing you to side with control against people who don't have any.

Wrong priorities. Speech first. That's how we figure out who deserves control. We don't look to the master to learn who should speak.
 
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