Chaosreaper187
Regular
Everybody keeps saying they are not vikings, they are kievan rus. Do you even history? Who do you think the kievan rus were and where did they originate from?
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This game is so unrealistic
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Erm.. i thought we were speaking about side weapon next to a lance? Sword vs. Axe. Or Maxe vs. Axe. Not nessecarily wheelock pistol vs. Sword..
Which game is realistic then?
Can you give more examples of axes being used as backup for the cavalry? Versus swords or other alternatives?If we're talking just any old axe then yes of course it'll just get stuck, but horseman axes and other battle axes were designed specifically for war as was pointed out by my previous reference didn't have this problem.
Axes, swords and maces were all solid choices as far as what to use after you're done with your lance, it depended on what you wanted to do. Fighting people who are lightly armoured? Sword. Fighting people who are very heavily armoured? Mace. Want the option to do both? Axe. My previous point of the lance/spear just being used for "the opener" is also historically supported.
"The lance as primary weapon pierced the enemy. If an enemy soldier was hit in full gallop by a knight's lance couched under the armpit, he was thrown backwards with such a momentum that he knocked over several of his compatriots, and was more often than not, killed; in some cases, the lance would even skewer the man and kill or wound the soldier behind him. The heavy lances were dropped after the attack and the battle was continued with secondary weapons (swords, axes, or maces, for example)."
Cavalry tactics - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
It would be unusual for cavalry to charge each other without their lances or spears. Can you give examples?Erm.. i thought we were speaking about side weapon next to a lance? Sword vs. Axe. Or Maxe vs. Axe. Not nessecarily wheelock pistol vs. Sword..
If you want we can search for other weapons. Here's the first (found before and axe
But to be honest, it's not as i've got an archive on such stuff. It's enough for me to have read that it was noted that knights began using different weapons than just sowrds.
So Vikings were from Denmark at the time, and in present day territories that overlap Denmark, Sweden and Norway. Kievan Rus were eastern slavs and eventually also Finnic peoples or "Varangians".
There is some debate as to whether or not Varangians from Finland are considered Vikings to this day...
"Controversy persists over whether the Rus' were Varangians (Vikings) or Slavs. This uncertainty is due largely to a paucity of contemporary sources. Attempts to address this question instead rely on archaeological evidence, the accounts of foreign observers, and legends and literature from centuries later.[24] To some extent the controversy is related to the foundation myths of modern states in the region.[25] According to the "Normanist" view, the Rus' were Scandinavians, while Russian and Ukrainian nationalist historians generally argue that the Rus' were themselves Slavs.[26][27][28] Normanist theories focus on the earliest written source for the East Slavs, the Primary Chronicle,[29] although even this account was not produced until the 12th century.[30] Nationalist accounts have suggested that the Rus' were present before the arrival of the Varangians,[31] noting that only a handful of Scandinavian words can be found in modern Russian and that Scandinavian names in the early chronicles were soon replaced by Slavic names.[32] Nevertheless, archaeological evidence from the area suggests that a Scandinavian population was present during the 10th century at the latest.[33] On balance, it seems likely that the Rus' proper were a small minority of Scandinavians who formed an elite ruling class, while the great majority of their subjects were Slavs.[32] Considering the linguistic arguments mounted by nationalist scholars, if the proto-Rus' were Scandinavians, they must have quickly become nativized, adopting Slavic languages and other cultural practices."
Kievan Rus' - Wikipedia
That's pretty neat, I had no idea that a controversy even existed. I'll concede that what I wrote is not entirety accurate but equally so was your claim about them.
Please stop. Just admit you pulled one out of your ass and were wrong.
Where is the axe though?If you want we can search for other weapons. Here's the first (found before and axe
But to be honest, it's not as i've got an archive on such stuff. It's enough for me to have read that it was noted that knights began using different weapons than just sowrds.
Again, i'm not saying axes were used often, or that knights always charged each other with anything. But don't you think making a quite dangerous game out of charging each other with less pointy sticks, might point in the direction of lancers actually having to deal with other lancers?
由板主最后编辑:
Karl_Magnus
Sergeant
Of course the proud Russians wouldn't admit that the mighty eastern slavs were ever dominated by nordics.
As far as I can tell from the image horsemen on the right are all about get dismounted by the lances hiitting them right in the chest. Don't take this the wrong way but you might want to rephrase your last sentence. I don't mean offense I just don't exactly understand what you mean.
由板主最后编辑:
I'm beginning to question what you think you're proving? I've shown you a pciture of a knightly riders axe from the 15th century. A picture from Odo of whatever riding with a mace... Guys charging each other with pointy sticks... now here the work of an unknown guy shwoing swords and axes.:
So can we now stop questioning if people actually did it?
You are trying to act realistic but your points are complete nonsenses as there weren't strict rules in the past like you claim very wrongly, in fact units using same weapons is the real unhistorical and unrealistic thing in the game as in reality soldiers kept using what ever they liked or could find from axes to lances including armors for centuries so medieval era armies were literally multi-colored masses with all kind of weapons and armors unlike most movies or games etc!! Sure, i would completely agree using 2h axe on horseback isn't a good idea at all but im 100% sure there were thousands of people who did that willingly or unwillingly!! About why movies or games are doing it, they are just trying to prepare something ''cool'', exciting not something historical or realistic so they don't care...
Those are bardiches my dude not axes. And I think there is a minor understanding here; I am not saying they never did, someone somewhere surely did, what I'm saying is that it is inferior to other alternatives and therefore would not be prevalent, hence discontinued.
Cavalry (the original "knights") and especially their horses were a big investment for an army, I do not think you would be risking someone you've invested so much in time and money make himself useless with an inherently disadvantagous weapon. There were formations using very specific polearms and having very specific uses in a battle, you would have a very limited range of arms to choose from since you have a specific role in the fight and there are only so many options that can effectively perform the said duty.
Edit: btw I'm not advocating for axes to get nerfed in the game lol, this is more friendly theorising and brainstorming about medieval warfare etc.
Despite what novels, movies and tv shows have portrayed, swords in general were rare relative to other weapon types in the middle ages until you get into the later years (1500).
Proper use of a sword (especially against armoured foes) took a lifetime of training and discipline, and were very expensive to make and maintain. Almost all the weapons that were seen on a battlefield (including cavalry) were polearms, axes, maces and ranged weaponry, especially in the case of the vikings where one would have to invest all their wealth (and go on numerous raids) to be able to afford a single sword.
Battle axes require less steel and finesse, they were cheap to make and instinctive in the hand and they raised all kinds of hell against armour. You can outfit an army pretty easily with axes - not a lot of steel and almost anyone who worked for a living was familiar with it.
You get the idea.
You could just google about the long history of horseman battle axes instead of asking other people to do it for you.
How are battle axes less advantageous? Late medieval knights mostly used maces, warhammers, flails, battleaxes, estocs and daggers to fight other armoured knights.
