This 2 major AI combat path-finding/tracking glitches/issues are ruining SP for me. Combat Instant-Win(1v1)

[Charlini]

Already posted in my thread here , if not on the OP, through the other posts inside the thread.

Since it was barely read or seen, and only recently by one community manager, I'll start slowly splitting my feedback into different topics so that it's easier to manage.

Aside Damage Formula / Area of Damage & Armor Absorbtion not working fine, which is probably my #1 concern both for SP and specially MP, these 2 videos show why I can't really play SP further, knowing that I can exploit specially this 1v1 mechanic auto-winning every fight ruins it for me. Fix asap.

Video 1(Sorry for quality, dunno why it got corrupted and can't render past 480p like usual, watchable anyway)



Video 2(Just a glitch inside hideout quest, and shows some of the reasoning for the suggestions below).

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Feedback

Spoiler

(The issues listed below aren't fully seen on those videos even if most are, specially the massive pile ups and clip throughs could be recorded in another video, but I'm sure if you played the game you'll agree on this).

·There's a glitch exploitable when 1v1ing any AI on melee(video1). If you 'hug' opponent, walk forward and diagonally(W+A) while spammin right-side attacks(and chaining for consecutive ones) he inmediatly loses track of you and doesn't turn his shield on time, allowing you to infinetly hit him. Opposite side : W+D) + left attacks also work. They work really well because it also allows easy 'hit/neck' hits, avoiding bounces. Fix this please.

About hideout quest, I understand that my troops were not the best as I was on an early stage of the game, however I got it offered and accepted, and I really believe that it should be 'viable' if it's offered, without any exploits like I had to use, but the way AI work in 1v2+ situations and the fact that I can only bring like 7 troops against 20, I had no choice(I didn't want to really wait for single groups of bandits to get out of layer risking to fail the quest on time limit).

Combatwise:

·AI needs to stop piling up & clipping through eachother: Almost every 1v2+ becomes extremely hard not because of a combat issue itself, but because of the way AI behave. They stand too close to eachother, to the point of clipping through eachother specially when any of them get hit. This becomes worse given the fact that they don't detect teammates, and start spamming hits behind them, as there's no teamhit. The moment you hit one, he gets clipped through by his teammate who's attacking beforehand, and you get hit without even spotting that last one coming.
This has to be fixed, they need to respect spacing specially with the way combat has been developed(Avoid bounces standing too close etc). Avoid 'hugging' eachother or standing unnaturally super close. I understand that for larger battles which involve many units, specially when using tactics, they should 'pile-up', but for lesser battles where less bots are involved, they should look more for those spaces, move more from side to side and respect more distances. Would be a HUGE improvement.

In relation to this, it would be a huge improvement if they acted less like AI and behave as if teamdamage was ON overall. More target swapping, less attack spamming on outnumbering situations ignoring teammate's in between etc.

·Alongside what I just mentioned, wanna remind of the constant senseless bounces and low damage hits, those really need to be worked on.

·I don't really know why stealth option is in the game if the AI is just gonna ignore it and charge against me when he hears me coming on his back 5 meters away. Make Stealth viable, and make your bots/companions follow you in this stealth option when they're nearby and under 'follow me' command. We should be able to reach opponent and catch him off-guard if he doesn't have eyes on us and we approach from mid distance with stealh mode ON, specially at night.
Fix stealth movement through stairs, currently you get stuck in many of those.

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[nilloc93]

you should probably post this in feedback/suggestions

 

[Charlini]

you should probably post this in feedback/suggestions

Well someone can move it, it's not entirely feedback, its a glitch aswell so wasn't sure where to post it, surely doesn't matter that much since who knows when this will be taken looked at or fixed.

If it follows the pace of my thread, we can wait for 10 days and after 2-3 PMs we get it reviewed and forwarded to some meeting. After that it will take a long bit probably until a fix, maybe this words have some impact and accelerate that process. Sorry to share my perspective this way but annoyment is peaking.

 

[nilloc93]

your "annoyment" at a game in early access being buggy? It would be totally reasonable for taleworlds to take a few weeks to fix any issue that comes up, its not a giant company and even giant companies take forever, or just never, fix bugs in their games.
You bought a game that was not done and what? You want it fixed in a couple days? Drop the entitlement bud...

 

[Charlini]

your "annoyment" at a game in early access being buggy? It would be totally reasonable for taleworlds to take a few weeks to fix any issue that comes up, its not a giant company and even giant companies take forever, or just never, fix bugs in their games.
You bought a game that was not done and what? You want it fixed in a couple days? Drop the entitlement bud...

I've 10 years playing M&B games & a lot of this time inside the competitive side of Warband and I've been giving feedback since June, My annoyment is not at the state of the game, it's about certain reactions from Taleworlds, specially regarding communication and their stance towards Combat, Mechanics and Basic Class balance. I seek nothing but to help and being ignored or disagreed over logical stuff followed by reasoning, explanations and videos can annoy one, specially after certain statements. Inform yourself before judging.

Also I didn't buy the game, if it helps you understand part of my annoyment, I love the game series and I'm trying nothing else but help at the best of my capacities, check all my recent posts and you'll acknowledge that.

Forgive the saltyness.

 

[Faebio]

While feeling annoyed or being salty is valid, it invalidates what you say by a fair bit. The reason behind constructive critisism being extremly important is that we as humans dont take critisism well if its bound to expressions of anger, annoyance or disregard for work being done.
I dont mean to critizise your bug-hunting efforts and suggestions though

 

[Charlini]

While feeling annoyed or being salty is valid, it invalidates what you say by a fair bit. The reason behind constructive critisism being extremly important is that we as humans dont take critisism well if its bound to expressions of anger, annoyance or disregard for work being done.
I dont mean to critizise your bug-hunting efforts and suggestions though

Yeah well, perhaps if you were around since June also providing and trying, you would've also reached this spot of 'annoyment' after last week's lack of responses & indirect call outs for lack of adaptability . I don't think you can properly judge if its valid or not since you have not been looking at neither my feedback(or from other players who have been supportive & constructive since minute 1) nor their reaction or lack of it, summed up to that their recent discussions and responses to other topics that we already had answers to.

You can be angry and still provide constructive criticism and feedback the same way I keep doing despite my saltyness since yesterday hope you understand that.

 

[nilloc93]

They're responding less because of the few hundred thousand new players who are also posting bugs and feedback, I'd imagine they're a bit overwhelmed right now. have some patience.
Also stop waving around your beta testing like a big e pen0r. It doesn't give your opinion any more weight.

 

[Nikomakkos]

Hey, how do you get the interface to choose which item to replace when you pick something up?

 

[Experimental]

Yeah well, perhaps if you were around since June also providing and trying, you would've also reached this spot of 'annoyment' after last week's lack of responses & indirect call outs for lack of adaptability . I don't think you can properly judge if its valid or not since you have not been looking at neither my feedback(or from other players who have been supportive & constructive since minute 1) nor their reaction or lack of it, summed up to that their recent discussions and responses to other topics that we already had answers to.

You can be angry and still provide constructive criticism and feedback the same way I keep doing despite my saltyness since yesterday hope you understand that.

I feel your pain. There has been countless threads and very popular discussion boards all talking about various issues with either very little response or no reaction at all. I played the first two days of Bannerlord and was just so very disappointed with the extreme lack of polish and balance. Hell, they forgot to add in half of the items for players to use that were already in the game. Early access or not, it really shouldn't have launched if it was going to be that bad.

I just have to wait until things get better or at least until the modders do the job Taleworlds should've in the first place. (which is quite sad)

 

[Shemaforash]

Also stop waving around your beta testing like a big e pen0r. It doesn't give your opinion any more weight.

taleworlds invited us into the closed beta to test their mp game, because we were really good at their previous one, doesn't that count for something?

 

[nilloc93]

taleworlds invited us into the closed beta to test their mp game, because we were really good at their previous one, doesn't that count for something?

doesn't give someone a pass to be a self entitled ass, nor does it give extra weight to someones thoughts on AI behavior in the SP aspect.
Perhaps ones statements should hold the weight and not rely on the crutch of being selected for the bannerlord beta.

 

[Charlini]

Hey, how do you get the interface to choose which item to replace when you pick something up?

Hold F, also to drop items and have a similar UI hold G

I feel your pain. There has been countless threads and very popular discussion boards all talking about various issues with either very little response or no reaction at all. I played the first two days of Bannerlord and was just so very disappointed with the extreme lack of polish and balance. Hell, they forgot to add in half of the items for players to use that were already in the game. Early access or not, it really shouldn't have launched if it was going to be that bad.

I just have to wait until things get better or at least until the modders do the job Taleworlds should've in the first place. (which is quite sad)

Thanks, I honestly don't care that much about game state, I've been supportive for 10 months, what tilts me recently is their attitude and reactions. Specially some statements after ignoring us and answering to other threads dodging most of the new and rellevant feedback that took way more effort and time did the trick.

They're responding less because of the few hundred thousand new players who are also posting bugs and feedback, I'd imagine they're a bit overwhelmed right now. have some patience.
Also stop waving around your beta testing like a big e pen0r. It doesn't give your opinion any more weight.

Stop being clueless. I've been the first to acknowledge that they've been/and are extremely busy with bug/glitches that cause crash specially(Read my past 7 days posts and you'll see), BUT THAT TAKES 5 MINUTES to communicate specially over such elemental stuff like the one showed in my thread or the threads from many players who dedicated time and effort to show basic issues that need improvement since beta. The issue comes when after ignoring this **** we get to read lack of adaptation towards Bannerlord while we've been extremely open towards it and they lack to understand what are the flaws of combat mechanics and class balance. Summed up to this, they decide to start answering every topic regarding class/equipment discussion or servers topic that THEY ALREADY answered and we all know and accepted(Call that adaptation I guess?).

If anything we've been the most respectful and patient side of their community for 10 months(not to count all the years earlier while every casual whined for a rushed release), and the fact that we got disrespected lately obviously triggers when some of us are the ones who never showed disrespect towards them(Unlike other testers perhaps during this 10 months). So you can **** off with respect honestly, noone is flexing on beta or whatever, if I mention it at all, is because you have no idea of the progress that we've been through or the amount of hours and effort that some of us dedicated to try and help taleworlds improve the game(and in some aspects they did, some didn't, thanks for that), but again, this recent communication well.. Yeah everything's said. The bridge between community and company defending both sides' interest has not been optimal let's drop it like that.

 

[Faebio]

I don't think you can properly judge if its valid or not since you have not been looking at neither my feedback(or from other players who have been supportive & constructive since minute 1) nor their reaction or lack of it, summed up to that their recent discussions and responses to other topics that we already had answers to.

You can be angry and still provide constructive criticism and feedback the same way I keep doing despite my saltyness since yesterday hope you understand that.

I dont need to judge wether your critisim is valid or not- the devs do. Honestly the work you put into it is commendable and the contents of it are helpful bug reports and suggestions. But the way we as humans work, you, me, the devs, anyone, is that when someone tells them they did something wrong (which is what we do when we critizise) in a matter and tone thats not carefuly picked they are not going to see the points however valid they may be, they see a guy being angry at them. Disliking the work they have spend the last several years on.

For "No Mans Sky" they had a single guy deal with all critisism after they launched and forbid all other devs from reading them. That was the only way for them to compile peoples reaction into useful data without the devs and their work being influenced by the amount and nature of critisism they received.

I dont know how TW handels this but I would assume they dont have the devs individualy read through all the complaints, critiques and suggestions but rather have someone do it for them and put it into useful data. They said they are reading it. I wouldnt expect the poor guy who has to compile all the information to write a in-depth reply to every suggestion posted.

 

[Madae]

I doubt they even have enough people to monitor the obscene amount of feedback they are getting from passionate players. This game sold really well despite EA, and seems to have a lot of activity everywhere I go. Suggestion is still the place to post this stuff, though. You're just making more work for them to have to sift through instead of just posting in the one place they know to look.

 

[Charlini]

I dont need to judge wether your critisim is valid or not- the devs do. Honestly the work you put into it is commendable and the contents of it are helpful bug reports and suggestions. But the way we as humans work, you, me, the devs, anyone, is that when someone tells them they did something wrong (which is what we do when we critizise) in a matter and tone thats not carefuly picked they are not going to see the points however valid they may be, they see a guy being angry at them. Disliking the work they have spend the last several years on.

Again, read through my feedback since 10 months back and you'll see that the matters and tone was remarkable unlike many others'. The fact that it's changed now its a response to that very same lack of respect that they showed, and I just replied with it to another guy who also judged without context, no need to make a big deal out of it nor look beyond that reason. Again, you didn't read fully my posts, Im not angry about the state of the game, I'm angry at their recent lack of communication, lack of responses and sudden call outs and indirect communications dodging to just dedicate time to threads that they already answered to or other senseless stuff.

For "No Mans Sky" they had a single guy deal with all critisism after they launched and forbid all other devs from reading them. That was the only way for them to compile peoples reaction into useful data without the devs and their work being influenced by the amount and nature of critisism they received.

Well maybe TW should follow the same path, since community manager's role is right now completly unclear, and isn't following it's function(common CM one). Just check their actions or lack of them since EA release, it's not like they didn't dedicate time to reviewing stuff or communicating, it was just pure dodging of certain topics after some days of silence while they worked on bug/crashes(understandable). I only got Marda to read a PM, the other bridge of communication, the 'main one' just ignored through steam, ignored quotes and @ in forum feedback and threads, ignored discussion, deleted(as well as other players who had chats related with feedback for 10 months from Steam), ignored PMs and finally when opened up on a discussion with us here, dodged main topic and landed a few opportunistic statements instead of answering to the previous stuff, of course once brought again, ignored another time. Just hopeless.

Communicating takes 5 minutes and ignoring or dodging certain people who have helped more than anyone in the community, that he even agreed upon on steam himself, disagreeing with certain topics with the devs favouring our side didn't make sense, and we politely tried to make him communicate or understand the reason for his behaviour, after the sudden change of attitude, as it wasn't a matter of 'overwhelmed by other work', but a matter of answering to stuff such as duel server topic, dedicated server, equipment/class discussion, forum fights, just senseless and dragging our effort in valuable feedback to the ground to be honest.

I dont know how TW handels this but I would assume they dont have the devs individualy read through all the complaints, critiques and suggestions but rather have someone do it for them and put it into useful data. They said they are reading it. I wouldnt expect the poor guy who has to compile all the information to write a in-depth reply to every suggestion posted.

They have community managers to rapidly look through the feedback, compile the most important info and bring it to the devs, forward them and afterwards talk about the highlights in some weekly meetings, where they agree/disagree and continue to their main plan, seeing if they can fit the new interest alongside it. Not the most efficient way in my eyes when so many people write in forums, but a big mistake when you decide to pass through many important topics during 10 months, and when Early Access starts and new feedback is refreshed and showed with lot of effort behind it, you not only ignore but start answering to equipment discussion non stop, or potential duel server, 2 topics that have been answered many weeks ago.

I suggested a similar way to work here compared to the one u mention Fabio. Perhaps it's time for TW to have someone specificly dedicated to compile feedback related with combat, mechanics & balance and another one exclusively for bugs/crashes for SP or even MP. I don't know but hopefully this long explanations help you or anyone understand that I am not a person who complained until this week, and there's a reason behind it as I've been supportive and constructive since minute 1(even pissed off by some actions, still here and reporting bug/crashes and providing feedback that takes A LOT of time).

 

[Charlini]

I doubt they even have enough people to monitor the obscene amount of feedback they are getting from passionate players. This game sold really well despite EA, and seems to have a lot of activity everywhere I go. Suggestion is still the place to post this stuff, though. You're just making more work for them to have to sift through instead of just posting in the one place they know to look.

Read the message above, think I cover this there aswell.

Forum mods which are mainly volunteers can move it freely. As I explained above, this is not pure feedback/suggestions, it's a bug/glitch aswel(video 1)l, so it should technicly be both in that other section dedicated to bugs and on feedback, in the end I posted it here as explained because I didn't know exactly where it should be.

Would like topic to return to why that stuff in those videos happens and what people think about them instead of some pointless discussion, specially which involves judgement of uninformed individuals(not targeting you with this but the posts above, Madae).

 

[Caius_III]

Brace yourselves brothers, they're coming.

 

[Charlini]

Just updated this topic on Beta branch e1.1.0 patch notes.

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/beta-branch-e1-1-0.412575/post-9347801