There is NO successful siege defense

staylee

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There is no way to prepare for a coming siege battle, and the AI will attack the wall unless player is overwhelmed. On the other hand, player has to sacrifice some troops to "break through" and then he can join a siege defense battle. So player has little chance to enjoy a siege defense and it should be exciting.

Besides, when attacking the AI, there is hardly any AI lord guarding the castle or city. It is really boring sometimes.
 

Stragenor

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Yeah. But you get a butt load of Ranged experience as a failing defense lol

My guy had 99 arrows and was out and refilled 1 time by the time they got to me =p
 

staylee

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Yeah. But you get a butt load of Ranged experience as a failing defense lol

My guy had 99 arrows and was out and refilled 1 time by the time they got to me =p
LOL, indeed and you can even obtain ranged exp by shooting friendly troops.
 

luisedgm

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Oh yeah in a siege you have to enter the castle before the enemy starts making camp, would be nice if cities and castles could had an upgrade that created a secret passage for your army to enter it when it is under siege
 

Bramborough

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Oh yeah in a siege you have to enter the castle before the enemy starts making camp, would be nice if cities and castles could had an upgrade that created a secret passage for your army to enter it when it is under siege
This would be a cool feature even if were limited to an upgrade for your own fiefs that only your own party could use.

What would REALLY make it cool. Say you had built such a secret passage, and then later lost the castle for whatever reason. BUT...you still know about the hidden tunnel, and the current owner doesn't. Muahahaha....
 

Soariticus

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Oh yeah in a siege you have to enter the castle before the enemy starts making camp, would be nice if cities and castles could had an upgrade that created a secret passage for your army to enter it when it is under siege
This would be a cool feature even if were limited to an upgrade for your own fiefs that only your own party could use.

What would REALLY make it cool. Say you had built such a secret passage, and then later lost the castle for whatever reason. BUT...you still know about the hidden tunnel, and the current owner doesn't. Muahahaha....
+500000!!!!

I love this!

Siege defense is incredible amounts of fun, however they're really hard to do. I have done 1 throughout my 97 hours, this 'secret passage' thing, if it allowed 100% of my army, or maybe 75% of them to pass in to the castle and defend it would make it so much better. Why would I break into the castle and lose 50% of my troops, if 100% of my troops can atleast weaken the enemy sieging us enough to where they have to cancel the siege? It's just not worth it.
 

enemy_man

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It would also be nice if lords stayed in their castles more so there was a chance of them partaking in the defense with their party. It gets really boring fighting the same militias with brightly colored shirts every single siege battle.
 

Wehveechen

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Agreed. What are my 200 men and 100 militia gonna do against 800 enemy soldiers? Nothing. Then I might as well let them take the fief and win it back ten minutes later. Secret passages that at least let me get in my army would be a great first step to remedying this issue.
 

DocShotgun

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I think the main causes for this are that the AI will only ever follow through with a siege if it's absolutely confident it can win (they pretty much just leave if I sit in the settlement, as long as they don't overwhelmingly outnumber me), and it prefers to target settlements with weak garrisons over anything else to begin with. And that joining an in-progress settlement assault from the outside just results in a field battle. It's also sad that lord armies are never sitting in castles leading the defense, which might make offensive sieges more interesting as well.

Pretty much the only way is to sacrifice troops to get in or I guess sit in the settlement with none or barely any troops.
 

Hospitaller13

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No offense

The idea of a "secret tunnel" sounds broken, I cannot think of a seige in history where an entire army was able to just walk into a city that was under seige. Yes tunnels hidden entrances were used by messanges and spies etc. But you have to remember they could be a MASSIVE security risk and just as easily used by an attacker.

The current system is fine.
 

Al'extérieur

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I think the main causes for this are that the AI will only ever follow through with a siege if it's absolutely confident it can win (they pretty much just leave if I sit in the settlement, as long as they don't overwhelmingly outnumber me)

Pretty much the only way is to sacrifice troops to get in or I guess sit in the settlement with none or barely any troops.
Yes that's what I think as well. Out of all the times I went into a castle to defend it, this worked once. I pretty much always have to wait for them to engage and then sacrifice a quarter of my troops to even be able to defend it. So, I stopped doing it entirely. I create an army a little bit away from them and I engage them on the field. Which is kind of sad really, as I'd love to be able to defend more without having to sacrifice my troops beforehand.
 

Fungo

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I mostly wonder why, when I attack an army that is sieging my city, why does the garrison not help?
 

hruza

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There is no way to prepare for a coming siege battle, and the AI will attack the wall unless player is overwhelmed. On the other hand, player has to sacrifice some troops to "break through" and then he can join a siege defense battle. So player has little chance to enjoy a siege defense and it should be exciting.

Besides, when attacking the AI, there is hardly any AI lord guarding the castle or city. It is really boring sometimes.
It's logical that you need to sacrifice some troops to get in to besieged fortress. It's been besieged after all. Normally you shouldn't be able to do it at all, but I guess loosing men while breaking in to, through enemy lines is a good compromise. You have an option, it just comes at a price.

You can see on tooltip what enemy is doing, including when he is heading to besiege something. You can also use encyclopedia to look there enemy was spotted last. Kings are always leading armies. Besides it's also not difficult to guess what place will likely get attacked, it's usually last well defended and closest town or castle.

AI also does fairly good job defending, when you besiege something, free roaming AI lords will come to you and if odds become good, they will attack you including sallying out of the town or castle you are besieging. AI armies will also likely come if they are in range and they will even break their sieges if needed.
 

staylee

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It's logical that you need to sacrifice some troops to get in to besieged fortress. It's been besieged after all. Normally you shouldn't be able to do it at all, but I guess loosing men while breaking in to, through enemy lines is a good compromise. You have an option, it just comes at a price.

You can see on tooltip what enemy is doing, including when he is heading to besiege something. You can also use encyclopedia to look there enemy was spotted last. Kings are always leading armies. Besides it's also not difficult to guess what place will likely get attacked, it's usually last well defended and closest town or castle.

AI also does fairly good job defending, when you besiege something, free roaming AI lords will come to you and if odds become good, they will attack you including sallying out of the town or castle you are besieging. AI armies will also likely come if they are in range and they will even break their sieges if needed.
Yes. I agree that it is reasonable to lose some troops while defending. But here we are talking about how to trigger an enjoyable battle in siege scene. First of all, there is little chance for you to sit in the castle and prepare for the coming attack. Once you have enough troops, the AI will go else where instead of trying to surround the colony and to starve you. Some aggressive lords might also take action once the siege weapons are built. In all, it should be challenging and exciting experience to prepare the defense and eventuallly have a good fight, just like "Kingdom of heaven", "Battle of Minas Tirith" and etc.

Another thing is about the AI's defending. We just want to fight the AI lord in the siege scene instead of normal battle field. Now AI lords hardly stay in their castle or city. Then the players are mostly fighting an enemy troop without a commander in the siege scene, which makes the game quite boring. Imagine that you have fought against a powerful lord for years and finally managed to force him to hide in the corner of his own castle, then eventually you take the fief and capture him. This will make the game experience much better I think.
 

kalarhan

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sieges are just too fast. The AI should also play the mini game of building siege weapons and attack the walls, making normal sieges last for a week or two. This would give time for defenders to rally a relieve army and try to help the town/castle, maybe even do a double attack (defenders rally, relieve army comes from behind, epic battle).

but this will have to wait until they fix sieges (food, how the mini game to break walls works, etc), maybe in a few months?
 

karijus

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Maybe sieges should be like an event. Enemies can try to siege normally as usual, but sometimes you would get a message "enemy is planning to siege [city]", then you have some time to prepare, and the enemy WILL attempt the siege, with a big force. This might be dependent on your kingdoms intelligence of the enemy or something, but thats going a bit ahead.

On your side, when you make an army, it could have a goal - "campaign to besiege and capture [enemy city]". If you don't attempt an attack until certain time passes, or just fail, then army dissolves and you lose reputation.
 

hruza

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Yes. I agree that it is reasonable to lose some troops while defending. But here we are talking about how to trigger an enjoyable battle in siege scene. First of all, there is little chance for you to sit in the castle and prepare for the coming attack. Once you have enough troops, the AI will go else where instead of trying to surround the colony and to starve you. Some aggressive lords might also take action once the siege weapons are built. In all, it should be challenging and exciting experience to prepare the defense and eventuallly have a good fight, just like "Kingdom of heaven", "Battle of Minas Tirith" and etc.
If you have huge army with you sitting in the castle, then that's reasonable thing to do for the AI. You do the same thing. However if you have small force and enemy have sufficient advantage, then they will siege you.

Another thing is about the AI's defending. We just want to fight the AI lord in the siege scene instead of normal battle field. Now AI lords hardly stay in their castle or city. Then the players are mostly fighting an enemy troop without a commander in the siege scene, which makes the game quite boring. Imagine that you have fought against a powerful lord for years and finally managed to force him to hide in the corner of his own castle, then eventually you take the fief and capture him. This will make the game experience much better I think.
That I can agree with, but I can't see how to change it without making enemy lords suicidal and their AI stupid. Why would lord sit in a castle that he have insufficient men to defend? And I prefer that enemy AI does behave rationally rather then me just having fun whacking their stupid heads around. It's no fun beating stupid inferior enemy. There's no challenge in the fight and no satisfaction in such a victory.
 

Rafalongo

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Yeap. The advantage of the walls could make the defense victorious against an enemy several times greater, this is impossible here ...
 
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If you have huge army with you sitting in the castle, then that's reasonable thing to do for the AI. You do the same thing. However if you have small force and enemy have sufficient advantage, then they will siege you.



That I can agree with, but I can't see how to change it without making enemy lords suicidal and their AI stupid. Why would lord sit in a castle that he have insufficient men to defend? And I prefer that enemy AI does behave rationally rather then me just having fun whacking their stupid heads around. It's no fun beating stupid inferior enemy. There's no challenge in the fight and no satisfaction in such a victory.
Yeah this is the problem smart ai doesn’t allow fun situations most times , total war had this issue where the ai would always just keep out of reach of player since it saw there army as too scary to fight. The ai only wants to engage in siege offense never defense since sitting inactive a lot in a castle is terrible for them, same for player honestly you have to try anf force siege defense by sitting it a castle in defended Hoping they feel confident with their 600 vs 45 not a fan but not sure how to fix, maybe some bonus to certain governors sitting in cities long term where them leaving is an actual problem or can’t be done quickly without losing a lot of something
 

neolae

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For the pleasure of gameplay I LOVE the secret tunnel idea. Human players don't want to sit around guarding the castle hoping the enemy will attack it so that isn't a good option. If you've built up cool troops then you hate to see them decimated breaking in as much as it's more realistic. The secret tunnel could be something that only the fief owner can use and knows about and also must be constructed. So you basically have recourse to defend your own castles and cities. It'd be super fun to have my party inside the walls during a siege but I never want to pay the cost. This would mean that you can't bring an army in, but you can get your own party in (and maybe companions?). The AI is perfectly happy to sit with like 6 small armies inside a city so this gives the player a similar option without just sitting around so they can enjoy doing PC things in the game and then still rush to defend a castle.