The Windows 10 Thread

[The Bowman]

SOS here.
So, Windows decided to install build 1703, which is quite a huge update. Now, my installation is at 32%, and the generic spinning circle is not there, so I can't know whether the whole process got stuck or not. The laptop fan seems to be working at varying intensity and the HDD light is not blinking.

Earlier today, my update got stuck at the same percentage, but the spinny thing was present though (albeit it did not spin).

Can anyone tell me whether it's worth the wait?

Here is how it looks like:

Spoiler

Edit: Is there any way to prevent their ****ing Creator's update from happening in my system? I'm fed up with Microsoft's updating issues. On one hand, they force them on you, on the other one, the computer gets screwed up every time.

 

[Splintert]

The entire point of Windows 10 is to take away as much user choice as possible so Microsoft can build a Mac-esque 'experience' for dumb people. Without the pro edition, you cannot defer updates indefinitely. You can however protest and go back to a functional OS like 7 or even 8.

 

[The Bowman]

I've disabled the updates in services.msc and cleared the traces of the old unsuccessful installation. So much fresh air now.

I wonder whether my C partition had enough memory to handle the update, but still, I'd be surprised if they didn't make a feature that checks whether you got the necessary disk space or not.

 

[Jhessail]

Far more likely that it got stuck in a loop. That's usually what happens when Windows Update is stuck.

 

[Dusk Voyager]

I believe, that in Linux we have the future. It's slowly getting there. Of course those big companies try to fight back, but sooner or later they lose. It is just matter of time. You cant dam up an ocean. I'm using windows 10 and ubuntu atm. Yeah, windows works and I can play games with this, but I just don't like Microsoft. Neither I like Google or Apple and especially I don't like Facebook. Those big corporations are too big. I don't like  how they can tell us what we should do.

Watch out, we got a badass over here.

To be frank, that's just try-hard teenager BS. I can understand what puts some people off them and why they want a different experience, but find that post just too presumptuous and pretentious, especially on a thread where everyone else is discussing Windows 10. Don't like big companies? Fine. Keep using what you like and criticizing what you dislike. Just don't go around claiming they tell us what to do. For all their flaws, they don't. It just depends on how you use their services. And Linux isn't necessarily the "chosen one" destined to prevail.

PS. inb4 I'm a racist corporate sheep.


On-topic edit: Saw quite a few Driver Power State Failure BSoDs last month that persisted even after tinkering with the drivers. Luckily Disk Cleanup fixed it, but I'm a bit worried that it could come back even worse.

 

[The Bowman]

I've read about a security loophole with Intel chips. I'm not really sure how bad the whole issue is, but it looks like the only way to effectively protect yourself is to install the latest security updates from Microsoft.
I used that occasion to finally get that Creator's Update by doing a full install of Windows 10, and enable the auto updates again. I hope that next time I won't hit the wall with those freezes.

 

[Age of Empires ¶ Densetsu]

Forced triple buffering at all times that adds 5 - 10ms of input latency on a lot of older games as well as the desktop. Yeah, **** off, I'm not using Windows 10 until they decide to stop being stupid. I had to go back to Windows 7 because of how bad it felt. Windows 10 is the single mostest worstest operating system ever sold to the public.

 

[Jhessail]

What? I haven't noticed that.

 

[Krik]

Me neither, Denny probably forgot his meds today.

 

[Age of Empires ¶ Densetsu]

It's not my fault you can't detect ~5ms (I'm just guessing on that number, but I still notice it) more input latency than Windows 7. I spent days finding out why Warband felt like input took longer to register and after countless hours perusing the internet and with my own experiments finally realised they removed the ability to disable triple buffering (and for whatever reason a lot of older games can't bypass it (CSGO seems alright but I'll have to try it again to be sure, Warband not so much), so the game is running but with the Windows 10 triple buffering as an addition to everything else). With Windows 7 you could disable the triple buffering by setting the theme to "classic", but they removed that option!

I have tried Warband on at least 30 different Windows 10 systems ranging from high level power user to library comprinter and they all have more input latency than a good Windows 7 configuration. Desktop usage also experiences this latency.

I recall seeing a few discussions about people making rendering solutions to bypass Windows completely and fix a lot of those issues. As in a replacement for DirectX and Vulkan etc. There are a few other people that have noticed the latency problem.

Disclaimer: this is of course related to monitor processing and gpu drivers. In some instances a clean Windows 7 or 10 install without GPU drivers has absolutely planck time latency, but as soon as you install the drivers, Windows 7 and 10 get their claws around dat mouse latency and it feels slightly more sluggish. 10 is worse.

Here's a test for you: find a Windows 7 system and try moving the mouse etc with the Aero theme, then do it on the classic theme. If you can detect a latency difference in the mouse and general desktop use between themes then congratulations you have become as autistically picky as me.

I am intelligent and competent enough to make sure that this is indeed not a placebo effect. In fact, it would be patronising to think such a thing.

 

[Krik]

Here's a test for you: find a Windows 7 system and try moving the mouse etc with the Aero theme, then do it on the classic theme. If you can detect a latency difference in the mouse between themes then congratulations you have become as autistically picky as me.

I'm legitimately afraid to do this.

 

[Jhessail]

5ms

Yeah, my demented senses will not notice that.

 

[Age of Empires ¶ Densetsu]

That's a shame. Still, I made the effort to create these amazing information images.

V-sync sux 4 response time, so I play without it n tearing and do not care about tearing, I just want it to feel more responsive. Windows 10 forces this triple buffering **** so I have to suffer!!1111111111111111 CLARIFICAY: WINDOWS 10 DOES NOT FORCE VSYNC, OT FORCES TRIPLE BUFFERING. GOOGLE THE DIFFERENCE IF YOU ARE THAT RETARDED.

GIF ONLY MEANT TO DEMONSTRATE TEARING AND WHY CLASSIC AND AERO THEME HAS DIFFERENT LATENCY, NOT WITCH GIF IZ FASTER

THIS IS WRITTEN IN A PATRONISING TONE WITH THE ASSUMPTION THAT YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT VERTICAL SYNCHRONISATION OR TRIPLE BUFFERING. I'M SURE YOU DO KNOW A BIT ABOUT IT, BUT THIS ARTICLE WAS WRITTEN WITH THE FORMER IN MIND.

THAT IS WHY THERE IS INPUT LATENCY IN THE UNIVERSE AND THE CRUX OF MY PROBLEM WITH WINDOWS 10.

ALSO I'M NOT ACTUALLY PROFESSIONALLY TRAINED IN THIS STUFF (WELL i AM AND IT'S GENUINELY MY DAY JOB, BUT BESIZED THE POINT), AND THERE ARE  MANY FACTORS IN THIS PROBLEM, BUT THE FORCED TRIPLE BUFFERING (AND OLDER GAMES NOT BEING ABLE TO BYPASS IT WITH MODERN GPU AND MODERN GPU DRIVERS IMPLEMTNATIONS in win10 WHATEVE THE **** ETC) IS MOST LIKLET THE CAUSE OF THIS LATENCY INCREASE IN SOME GAMES WHEN UPDATING TO WINDOWS 10.

 

[Splintert]

Can't you just disable v-sync for old games?

 

[Age of Empires ¶ Densetsu]

This latency is with vertical synchronisation disabled

Read this for further clarification:

"With double buffering (and vsync enabled), 3-D games must wait until the next vertical retrace before they can start rendering the next frame. Vertical retraces occur at the vertical refresh rate, typically in the 60–100 Hz range. If supported by the graphics controller, turning off vsync eliminates this delay and provides the highest frame rate. However, it can cause a visual artifact called tearing.

With triple buffering enabled, the game renders a frame in one back buffer. While it is waiting to flip, it can start rendering in the other back buffer. The result is that the frame rate is typically higher than double buffering (and vsync enabled) without any tearing BUT STILL WITH VERY MINOR LATENCY INCREASE."

"Triple buffering simply buffers one extra frame to the cpu instead of two. This extra frame gives enough time to correct more issues such as frame tearing. It also has drawbacks. A extra frame being buffered by the GPU means it must use more on-board GPU memory to store and buffer that frame."

I don't need your condescending help Splintert, I know this is an issue and have sufficiently researched it most likely more than you and I know I cannot fix it without moving mountains. I just wish staying on Windows 7 wasn't such a dead end. And I wish I could sleep with your sister.

Thanks for all the fish

 

[Splintert]

Triple buffering is by definition vertical sync. You can turn it off in fullscreen games. You do not need to be an ******* all the time, you know.

 

[Age of Empires ¶ Densetsu]

I'm not an ******* all the time, just that one occasion when I proved to you that a well-documented and obvious imaging phenomenon actually existed, and then this time when I just ****posted without any factual basis about Windows 10. There is no problem here.

Also,

I know what it is.

 

[Splintert]

So what you mean to say is that you've been an ******* every time we've ever interacted. Not making a strong case for yourself. I understand that you feel the need to put me down for some reason, I don't really care, but what you've said is nonsensical. Even if the desktop forces triple buffering you can still disable it in fullscreen applications evidenced by the fact that screen tearing still happens. Screen tearing is impossible with triple or double buffering, that's the whole point. I know you know that, so why would you say that games can't disable it? I'm all for bashing Windows 10 because it is a **** operating system. Forced triple buffering in fullscreen applications is not one of those reasons.

Forced triple buffering would also make dynamic refresh rate solutions (Freesync, G-sync) pointless because they'd have the input latency that they try to avoid. How do you explain that?

 

[Age of Empires ¶ Densetsu]

My actions only become actions of an ******* because of you. Being an ******* takes two. If you liked what I was doing, I wouldn't be an *******. The mere act of you responding in a serious way with subtle autistic condescending annoyance is the cause for this hole dramatic episode. It is your fault. If you just replied with "Oh, that's really awesome Age of Empires II: The Densetsu, created by Westwood Studios! You have brightened my day" each time, we would all be happy. In the unlikely situation when you have sex with a woman, slap her buttocks. If she likes it, you're a great guy. If she considers it sexual abuse, you're an *******. What you really should take from this whole experience is: please find Age of Empires II: The Densetsu, created by Westwood Studios sexually arousing so I can put on my CV that I'm not an *******.

Hell, I made up most of this as I went along, I use Windows 10 all the bloody time.

 

[Splintert]

I wanted you to go into further depth like you usually do so I could figure out if I'm having unnecessary latency so I could fix it, like what people usually do on the Software and Hardware board. I suppose that's too much to ask from this forum anymore..