The whole "buy horse to level up troops to horsemen" thing is illogical

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Stromming

Sergeant at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
Instead of removing the requirements for horse troops, I'd actually like to see them implement requirements for other troops too. Maybe new items like "generic level 2 armor" "generic level 2 weaponry" etc, that can be either crafted or purchased, that are required to upgrade other troops.
That would be too annoying and serve no purpose other than an unnecessary grind for stuff
 

Bannerman Man

C# Sleuth
Knight
Also, should default to taking the lowest tier/cheapest warhorses in inventory.
FYI, there's a way to manipulate which horse a troop uses for its upgrade.

Go into your inventory screen and move all of the horses you have over into the "discard" column on the left. Now add the whole stack of horses you want them to draw from first back into your inventory on the right. Move each of the remaining stacks back over in the order you want them to be used. That's it. Now they will use them in the order you chose. You don't need to worry about pack horses because they aren't used for upgrades.

So for example, if you have 10 Battanian Ponies, 10 Midlands Palfreys, and 10 Steppe Horses, and you want them to use the Palfreys first, then Steppes, then Ponies, move all three stacks to the discard column and then add the Palfreys back first, then Steppes, then Ponies. Done.

Here's the reason this works. The game code creates a list or "roster" that tracks all of the items you possess in your inventory. Any time you acquire a new item that you don't already own, it adds it to the bottom of this roster. This means that the items that you have had in your inventory the longest will be at the top of this roster, and the most recently added items will be at the bottom. When the game selects a horse for an upgrade, it simply starts at the top and moves down your roster of items one by one until it finds the first horse stack (or warhorse if that's what's needed), and removes a horse from that stack from your inventory. Well, when you move items into the discard column in your inventory screen, it temporarily takes them out of this roster, and when you add them back it will insert them at the bottom of the roster, so you're able to arrange them in any order you want.

*It's important to note that the order they appear in your inventory screen is NOT the same order they are on the item roster, so don't let that mislead you into thinking they will be used in the order normally shown. There's no way to know what order they actually appear on the roster unless you memorize it.
 
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caledoni

Sergeant
FYI, there's a way to manipulate which horse a troop uses for its upgrade.

Go into your inventory screen and move all of the horses you have over into the "discard" column on the left. Now add the whole stack of horses you want them to draw from first back into your inventory on the right. Move each of the remaining stacks back over in the order you want them to be used. That's it. Now they will use them in the order you chose. You don't need to worry about pack horses because they aren't used for upgrades.

So for example, if you have 10 Battanian Ponies, 10 Midlands Palfreys, and 10 Steppe Horses, and you want them to use the Palfreys first, then Steppes, then Ponies, move all three stacks to the discard column and then add the Palfreys back first, then Steppes, then Ponies. Done.

Here's the reason this works. The game code creates a list or "roster" that tracks all of the items you possess in your inventory. Any time you acquire a new item that you don't already own, it adds it to the bottom of this roster. This means that the items that you have had in your inventory the longest will be at the top of this roster, and the most recently added items will be at the bottom. When the game selects a horse for an upgrade, it simply starts at the top and moves down your roster of items one by one until it finds the first horse stack (or warhorse if that's what's needed), and removes a horse from that stack from your inventory. Well, when you move items into the discard column in your inventory screen, it temporarily takes them out of this roster, and when you add them back it will insert them at the bottom of the roster, so you're able to arrange them in any order you want.

*It's important to note that the order they appear in your inventory screen is NOT the same order they are on the item roster, so don't let that mislead you into thinking they will be used in the order normally shown. There's no way to know what order they actually appear on the roster unless you memorize it.
awesome, thanks for sharing :smile:
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
Here's the reason this works. The game code creates a list or "roster" that tracks all of the items you possess in your inventory. Any time you acquire a new item that you don't already own, it adds it to the bottom of this roster. This means that the items that you have had in your inventory the longest will be at the top of this roster, and the most recently added items will be at the bottom.
This explains why it is always the ****ing horse I want to keep.
 

Because

Sergeant
Think yourselves lucky you don't have to buy another horse every time a cavalryman has a horse shot out from under them.

In the life of a cavalryman they might expect to have a horse shot out from under them several times, so you're probably going to recoup your stingy horse cost several times over.
Have to agree with the above, it's why I don't mind having to supply horses, even though it's an annoying feature in some ways it feels like a sensible enough restriction. That said I also completely endorse the idea that it should default to taking the lowest tier/cheapest warhorses in inventory especially considering the cost differences between breeds it so annoying to have no control over what is used.
 

mexxico

Sergeant Knight
Have to agree with the above, it's why I don't mind having to supply horses, even though it's an annoying feature in some ways it feels like a sensible enough restriction. That said I also completely endorse the idea that it should default to taking the lowest tier/cheapest warhorses in inventory especially considering the cost differences between breeds it so annoying to have no control over what is used.

Probably we can add using cheapest suitable horse / war horse during upgrade. I noted it.
 

kreamy

Sergeant
FYI, there's a way to manipulate which horse a troop uses for its upgrade.

Go into your inventory screen and move all of the horses you have over into the "discard" column on the left. Now add the whole stack of horses you want them to draw from first back into your inventory on the right. Move each of the remaining stacks back over in the order you want them to be used. That's it. Now they will use them in the order you chose. You don't need to worry about pack horses because they aren't used for upgrades.

So for example, if you have 10 Battanian Ponies, 10 Midlands Palfreys, and 10 Steppe Horses, and you want them to use the Palfreys first, then Steppes, then Ponies, move all three stacks to the discard column and then add the Palfreys back first, then Steppes, then Ponies. Done.

Here's the reason this works. The game code creates a list or "roster" that tracks all of the items you possess in your inventory. Any time you acquire a new item that you don't already own, it adds it to the bottom of this roster. This means that the items that you have had in your inventory the longest will be at the top of this roster, and the most recently added items will be at the bottom. When the game selects a horse for an upgrade, it simply starts at the top and moves down your roster of items one by one until it finds the first horse stack (or warhorse if that's what's needed), and removes a horse from that stack from your inventory. Well, when you move items into the discard column in your inventory screen, it temporarily takes them out of this roster, and when you add them back it will insert them at the bottom of the roster, so you're able to arrange them in any order you want.

*It's important to note that the order they appear in your inventory screen is NOT the same order they are on the item roster, so don't let that mislead you into thinking they will be used in the order normally shown. There's no way to know what order they actually appear on the roster unless you memorize it.
That was super helpful. Thank you.

The first thing I thought was "well Ill just re-organize them."

Makes sense. Is this also true for spawning NPCs into battle?

PS: Hilarious no one seemed to have known this and we're all so grateful!
 

Old-Bull

Squire
That was super helpful. Thank you.

The first thing I thought was "well Ill just re-organize them."

Makes sense. Is this also true for spawning NPCs into battle?

PS: Hilarious no one seemed to have known this and we're all so grateful!

There has to be a reason why I always have all of my infantry, cav, and archers, but none of my horse archers for large battles.

They probably just go by group number, 1, 2, 3, 4....
 

black_bulldog

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SVC
FYI, there's a way to manipulate which horse a troop uses for its upgrade.

Go into your inventory screen and move all of the horses you have over into the "discard" column on the left. Now add the whole stack of horses you want them to draw from first back into your inventory on the right. Move each of the remaining stacks back over in the order you want them to be used. That's it. Now they will use them in the order you chose. You don't need to worry about pack horses because they aren't used for upgrades.

So for example, if you have 10 Battanian Ponies, 10 Midlands Palfreys, and 10 Steppe Horses, and you want them to use the Palfreys first, then Steppes, then Ponies, move all three stacks to the discard column and then add the Palfreys back first, then Steppes, then Ponies. Done.

Here's the reason this works. The game code creates a list or "roster" that tracks all of the items you possess in your inventory. Any time you acquire a new item that you don't already own, it adds it to the bottom of this roster. This means that the items that you have had in your inventory the longest will be at the top of this roster, and the most recently added items will be at the bottom. When the game selects a horse for an upgrade, it simply starts at the top and moves down your roster of items one by one until it finds the first horse stack (or warhorse if that's what's needed), and removes a horse from that stack from your inventory. Well, when you move items into the discard column in your inventory screen, it temporarily takes them out of this roster, and when you add them back it will insert them at the bottom of the roster, so you're able to arrange them in any order you want.

*It's important to note that the order they appear in your inventory screen is NOT the same order they are on the item roster, so don't let that mislead you into thinking they will be used in the order normally shown. There's no way to know what order they actually appear on the roster unless you memorize it.
Dude that has to be one of the most useful things I've seen on these forums, thanks so much.
 

Bannerman Man

C# Sleuth
Knight
No problem, @ all. I actually just figured that out for myself yesterday after checking to see how the game handled it, so I swear I wasn't holding out on you guys haha.

Makes sense. Is this also true for spawning NPCs into battle?
If you mean companions, they will always spawn no matter where you place them on the troop list.

For troops, as the battle is loaded, each individual troop is assigned a "priority" value, which is randomized, but is weighted so that troops from a stack positioned higher on your troop list will tend to have higher priority values. Then they are all sorted into a queue according to their priority, and the game will take the first X troops from the queue until it's filled up your side of the battle. Any reinforcements will be taken from the front of the queue. Companions and family members are ignored when the game looks at the position of the troop's stack on the party list, so they can be placed anywhere without affecting the priority values of the troops below them.

Long story short, arrange your troop list with the troops you want to have the best chance of spawning in on top.
 

Brotila

Recruit
It can be a bit annoying looking around for war horses when you need to mass upgrade. Expensive too, however at this point you should have a good bit of money for it. I think its a neat idea but I just rather the initial upgrade cost be more (to cover horse provisioning). Then again it kinda gives you another reason to shop at towns other than to sell loot/buy food (and occasional armor upgrades). I guess I'm kinda in the middle on this. There are other things I would like to see improved or changed before this.
 

kreamy

Sergeant
No problem, @ all. I actually just figured that out for myself yesterday after checking to see how the game handled it, so I swear I wasn't holding out on you guys haha.


If you mean companions, they will always spawn no matter where you place them on the troop list.

For troops, as the battle is loaded, each individual troop is assigned a "priority" value, which is randomized, but is weighted so that troops from a stack positioned higher on your troop list will tend to have higher priority values. Then they are all sorted into a queue according to their priority, and the game will take the first X troops from the queue until it's filled up your side of the battle. Any reinforcements will be taken from the front of the queue. Companions and family members are ignored when the game looks at the position of the troop's stack on the party list, so they can be placed anywhere without affecting the priority values of the troops below them.

Long story short, arrange your troop list with the troops you want to have the best chance of spawning in on top.
TY so much for the explanation of how this works!
 

Ananda_The_Destroyer

Master Knight
No problem, @ all. I actually just figured that out for myself yesterday after checking to see how the game handled it, so I swear I wasn't holding out on you guys haha.


If you mean companions, they will always spawn no matter where you place them on the troop list.

For troops, as the battle is loaded, each individual troop is assigned a "priority" value, which is randomized, but is weighted so that troops from a stack positioned higher on your troop list will tend to have higher priority values. Then they are all sorted into a queue according to their priority, and the game will take the first X troops from the queue until it's filled up your side of the battle. Any reinforcements will be taken from the front of the queue. Companions and family members are ignored when the game looks at the position of the troop's stack on the party list, so they can be placed anywhere without affecting the priority values of the troops below them.

Long story short, arrange your troop list with the troops you want to have the best chance of spawning in on top.
It's really useful thank you! It's not only good for not loosing special and expensive horses, but also for using horses from "deliver the herd" and not ones you already own. You can upgrade with 1/2 the horses and deliver 1/2 to get off the hook :smile:
I LOVE BEING BAD!
 

ratschbumm

Sergeant at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
If this rule was not be there most players would try to reach horseman troops all the time because they have several advantages compared to infantry troops both at combat and at map (speed bonus).
firstly, let us lift a mug of kvass for your work and especially communication.
secondly, to the quote. It did not prevent me to form a group of 220 bucellarii and to sow terror on the enemy's communication deeply behind the lines. Unfortunately, it's the only way to weak Khuzaites, when they easily has 2,5k troops in one army plus couple of 400-500 men armies, defeat warbands one-by-one, preventing the replenish of main armies and capturing the warlords, and the main trick - letting them return from my territory with false sieges.

To the whole idea about necessity to buy horses for upgrade - I like it, but if AI doesn't have to, let him pays the price of horse at least, not only upgrade fees. It also be nice (as difficulty option maybe) to pay, I would say, 1000 denars, instead having live horse needed for upgrade in inventory.
 
Instead of removing the requirements for horse troops, I'd actually like to see them implement requirements for other troops too. Maybe new items like "generic level 2 armor" "generic level 2 weaponry" etc, that can be either crafted or purchased, that are required to upgrade other troops.
+1
 

GeluHUN

Veteran
A) I agree that the AI should use (almost) the same rule as the player when upgrading to horse soldiers. A simplest way could be that every time an AI lord goes into any fief (village or town), and there are horses sold at a medium or cheap price, and they have the money, then they should buy those horses. This would make horses rare and the prices would be higher, but that can be balanced by spawning more horses at villages. Of course this way the AI should only upgrade to horse troops if it has the required horses to do so. Note: since Khuzaits have more horse villages then others, it still should make Khuzait lords be able to have more horse troops then others.

B) I also agree that troop upgrade should need more then just gold. It could be some form of generic armor & weapon set, which the player and the AI lords could buy in the towns. These "sets" could be produced in the smithies and tanneries, and could be divided into a few categories, for example the same as the current troop groups (footmen, archers, horse archers, cavalry, skirmisher, heavy footmen). This also would make smithies and tanneries (and the required raw goods for them), more viable and make this part of the economy a strategic goal in the game. This would also slow down troop upgrades and would make upgraded troops more valuable. Note: since the actual troop armor and the "sets" to upgrade them are not linked in any way, the actual troops and the upgrade sets and economy could be balanced independently in the game.
 
Perhaps upgrading troops should be made possible only in cities where is ironmongery where they get new gear for price not teleporting itself to the field anytime.

And also some ppl wanted having soldiers in accord with culture then their gear might be dependant where they got those upgrades from so their appearance (gear) would be not up to faction they are from but where they got upgraded.
 
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