The whole ‘whine situation’ and a general community health analysis

[Stromming]

Stop acting like you are their boss. By the way, you make me sick.

I'm not acting like their boss. I am acting like a disgruntled customer, which I have a right to be.
I am fully aware that the game is in EA status, and I perfectly accept that EA excuses a lot of what is wrong or bad with the game.
EA is however not an excuse for poor communication and not putting their money where their mouths are.

I am sure there is an explanation however, and I am still waiting for TW to come and give it to us.

Oh we are resorting to personal insults because you are incapable of actually responding to what I am saying? Very mature.

 

[babelfisch]

I'm not acting like their boss. I am acting like a disgruntled customer, which I have a right to be.
I am fully aware that the game is in EA status, and I perfectly accept that EA excuses a lot of what is wrong or bad with the game.
EA is however not an excuse for poor communication and not putting their money where their mouths are.

I am sure there is an explanation however, and I am still waiting for TW to come and give it to us.

Oh we are resorting to personal insults because you are incapable of actually responding to what I am saying? Very mature.

Still waiting for your apology.

 

[Jack Avenger]

This threads a perfect sample of the health of the community.

There's a big divide between the 'OMG it's been 10 years and TW didn't deliver the game I wanted' crowd and players that are satisfied or patiently waiting for more.

Luckily there's still a few posters around that provide interesting info, otherwise this place is only worth visiting to check patch updates.

Yeah, I couldn't agree more than that. I rarely visit the forum either to check updates or other interesting information. Yet, there are still people wasting their valuable time in threads like these just to whine more about the game. The worst part is that it's almost the same posters every time I check. When will they learn that whining won't add anything ?

 

[Stromming]

Still waiting for your apology.

For what? Calling them out on lying to the community?
First we need to establish that I was lying, which we can only do by having TW explain how they weren't lying in the first place.

We have already established that they lied / misled / deceived / misdirected the community in my previous posts with direct quotes from Callum.
It might not have been intentional like I also said earlier, but that only makes it marginally better.

EDIT:
I am going to drop this discussion since there is nothing we can do but agree to disagree.

 

[Gambles]

Finally, at the third stage I started to think. Why are people acting like this? Is this unique to Bannerlord? And, as far as I can see, it is. Which turns out to be a good thing.

This most be the single most false statement ever made on this forum. People have been getting pissed about video games, and, well, everything else since the internet has been a thing and long before that. I have no idea how you would come to the conclusion that bannerlord is in any way unique in receiving just or unjust criticism online.

 

[Stromming]

This most be the single most false statement ever made on this forum. People have been getting pissed about video games, and, well, everything else since the internet has been a thing and long before that. I have no idea how you would come to the conclusion that bannerlord is in any way unique in receiving just or unjust criticism online.

In my opinion, Bannerlord is actually better than a lot of other communities

 

[Gambles]

In my opinion, Bannerlord is actually better than a lot of other communities

As someone whose played a lot of competitive online FPS's, MMO, and MOBA's in his time. I would certainly agree, I've seen and heard some ridiculous stuff and insinuating even dumb things like "This game is crap and will always be crap!" in any way is the most horrible thing ever said about a game is just naïve or intentionally ignorant lol.

 

[Stromming]

Yeah.
The game is going to be amazing. It's just a question of how long it's going to take to get there and how bumps there are going to be on the road.

 

[Androme1]

Holy hell how does a community of medieval fantasy gamers get whipped into such an irredeemable nerd rage?

The "minimal expectations" not yet completed are EASILY fixed it just seems obvious that the fix is involved with a long term strategy.

Obviously they're not going to fix placeholder perks which they already decided would be removed if it just wastes productivity. Or if the mechanics of certain perks are dependent on new systems not yet implemented they're not going to waste time bandaiding the code when the user can just open a file in notepad and edit it to use longbows on horses.

Hate to break it to some people but it's legally extremely unlikely for a team of 60+ people to get paid to just sit around and laugh at you, "ha ha ha we didn't even push the full Athletics perks changes! Oh well it's lunch time! Come on boys dig into the free company musaka and let's laugh at these clowns whining on the forums! Oh what's that?? Another EA sale? Make that TWO rounds of musaka!! Look at them whine!!"

Even the lowest state or nonprofit coding jobs DO produce tangible results. Hate to break it to you conspiracy theorists who think this is just one elaborate scam to make fake knight and castles games.

What the **** are you even writing? I can barely understand what you're trying to communicate, are you trying to say that having some sort of expectations for Bannerlord is unreasonable because it is reasonable to assume that a "serious company" will deliver on their promises, or something like that?

Anything I write about Taleworlds and the state of Bannerlord is from the information available to us, what is available to us is the physical state of Bannerlord as of right now, and whatever communication from Taleworlds towards us so far.

The state of the game is terrible, there's barely any content in the game, the game is completely unimmersive and it has sacrificed many of the staples of the Mount & Blade franchise in favour of "new features" (main storyline, succession) that don't even work and that nobody even asked for and that nobody is excited for except for a few cringeworthy simps on the forums.

As for communication from Taleworlds: They have given us a Roadmap. In this Roadmap, there's NO mention of new content being planned for Taleworlds, only bugfixing and polishing. And that is terrible news because one of the main problems with Bannerlord is precisely the lack of content (that everyone naturally expected would be there), especially content that has been in Warband and Viking Conquest for a very long time, which again everyone naturally expected would be in Bannerlord.

 

[Androme1]

A nonsensical succession system too boot. There are not enough fiefs or mechanics to warrant a "succession" system in this game. Additionally, by the time your first character dies, the game is fundamentally over because of snowballing - either the player snowballing or an AI faction snowballing.

Not to even bring up the horrible gameplay loop of: defeat lord, capture lord, lord escapes, lord comes back, lord sieges / pillages, defeat lord, capture lord, lord escapes, etc etc.

And the game can't even function properly without the lords escaping and cheating in core party templates.

It's just fundamentally flawed.

You're exactly right, and there's absolutely no way for a succession system to work properly in a game that can go so many wildly different ways such as Bannerlord, with extremely fragile systems and calculations for the AI and economy always going on in the background.

It is a 100% bloat feature that nobody asked for, nobody is interested in, and that diminishes the memorability of the "first generation" NPC's in the game.

I think the problem stems from the development being 10 years. What was the last game in development for this long that didn't have massive issues. It speaks to a larger problem at TW and that is a lack of management and direction. Truthfully I don't think we are getting a clear picture because there isn't one.

You are of course completely right. Just because a game is in development for 10 years doesn't mean we should "expect a very good game considering 10 years of development", but as you said it should rather be seen as a warning sign. For all the criticism I've given Bannerlord, the engine is apparently very well done so I guess there's some competent people that have worked for Taleworlds in regards to the engine. But other than that, I don't see much competence, anywhere at all in fact.
The music is really good aswell.

 

[babelfisch]

Care to name some of the new features compared to Warband? I can name atleast two missing features per "new" feature in Bannerlord.

Yes, the game gets mostly positive reviews, as would probably most gamblers give to their gambling game of choice, as does Fortnite, Call of Duty & Fifa. Consumer behaviour is not rational and not borne out of developed taste, it is a result of the effectiveness of marketing. ****ing idiot lol.

- clans
- crafting
- children / succession
- mercenary armies
- gangs
- siege weapons

Just to name a few.

 

[Blood Gryphon]

- clans
- crafting
- children / succession
- mercenary armies
- gangs
- siege weapons

Just to name a few.

what are you talking about they've only added in emotes /s ?

People have such a unrealistic idea of what warband was unmodded.

 

[StewVader]

what are you talking about they've only added in emotes /s ?

People have such a unrealistic idea of what warband was unmodded.

Why would you compare it to unmodded Warband? That seems like a disingenuous argument/comparison. What about VC?

Bannerlord should have accounted for the most popular Warband mods, like the Diplomacy mod, which became the base of many other popular mods. And DLC like VC. Your making a bad faith argument on purpose.

The mods didn't exist in a vacuum and should be held up for the comparison.

 

[Blood Gryphon]

Why would you compare it to unmodded Warband? That seems like a disingenuous argument/comparison. What about VC?

Bannerlord should have accounted for the most popular Warband mods, like the Diplomacy mod, which became the base of many other popular mods. And DLC like VC. Your making a bad faith argument on purpose.

The mods didn't exist in a vacuum and should be held up for the comparison.

I agree with you, but the man said "Care to name some of the new features compared to Warband?". Context my friend.

 

[StewVader]

I agree with you, but the man said "Care to name some of the new features compared to Warband?". Context my friend.

Okay fair enough. When people compare Bannerlord to Warband, I assume they mean more than vanilla, but thats my assumption.

 

[Androme1]

- clans
- crafting
- children / succession
- mercenary armies
- gangs
- siege weapons

Just to name a few.

Crafting is barely used by anyone other than cheaters who want to make easy money.
Children/Succession system is not fun, is completely non-functional, and nobody ever asked for it.
Mercenary armies, this is not a feature, it's a 3 minute mod that anyone can create.
Gangs, a non-functional "feature" (but you're probably too stupid to understand that the criminal system is actually not functioning as intended right now)

So out of everything you've listed, we can outline two new features: Clans and Siege weapons. Siege weapons is the only actual new gameplay feature here, while Clans is just a way to organize the interface, nothing else.
Do you feel proud and fulfilled with this? Is this what you waited 10 years for?

Now, my turn, I promised to name atleast two missing features per feature you listed:

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/bannerlord-is-missing-many-good-features-from-warband-and-vc.427070/

- Feasts: Parties the player and AI lords could hold for other lords. They helped slow down factions who were conquering large parts of the map too quickly by giving them something to do other than be at war 24/7. They gave the player another way of gaining relation with lords and ladies, gathered them all in one place for convenient talking/flirting, and feasting had a related quest where you gathered food from all around the map to make your feast impress the other lords. Feasts made Calradia feel more like a real world, and gave us Harlaus butter memes.
- Manhunters: They spawned in Warband to hunt down bandits when their numbers started getting too high. In Bannerlord, this system could be tweaked: allow the player to spend money to put a Bounty on bandits in the area of one of their villages, and Manhunters would begin spawning there and hunting any threats to your village's prosperity, allowing you to go do more important/interesting things.
- Handcrafted companions: Think Jeremus, Ymira, etc. These companions had in-depth backstories and reactions to world locations, interacted with each other, and they had personalities you could get attached to. You could also make companions into vassals for your kingdom, which was useful if you had angered too many existing nobles.
- Courtship: Ladies had likes and dislikes, you could learn poems suited to their personality from poets and hear gossip, there were romance quests. Rather than just trying to roll the correct RNG on a skill check, Warband courtship was more like trying to build a relationship with a person.
- Ambush attacks: This added further immersion and strategy to overworld combat, and would be a great use for the Scouting, Tactics and Roguery skill trees.
- Setting camp: In VC, your camp could provide basic fortifications if you were attacked in the field, and also provided a morale bonus for resting.

 

[Androme1]

I agree with you, but the man said "Care to name some of the new features compared to Warband?". Context my friend.

Ah yes, the obligatory "I was technically speaking right therefore the essence of my argument is right aswell despite not actually being so"

**** off, lol. Nobody is stupid enough to actually think Bannerlord is an improvement over Warband. Bannerlord barely has any content, the only thing you do in the game is to fight lord after lord after lord after lord, with literally zero time to do anything else (unless you want to lose the campaign war, that is).

 

[Lucius Confucius]

@ Topic

I wonder how many are just trolls who don't really care about the game? From various posts around the forums, I sometimes think people must be trolling.

 

[Androme1]

@ Topic

I wonder how many are just trolls who don't really care about the game? From various posts around the forums, I sometimes think people must be trolling.

People who care about this game criticize the developers, provide feedback, and don't care about fragile sensibilities as displayed by people like you.

Also, you're not going to get paid/become a forum moderator by simping for Taleworlds, just so you know.

 

[NLCRich]

People who care about this game criticize the developers, provide feedback, and don't care about fragile sensibilities as displayed by people like you.

Also, you're not going to get paid/become a forum moderator by simping for Taleworlds, just so you know.

People who care about the game criticize constructively, provide feedback, help out with many bug reports in technical section, and do so with the tact and poise of a gentleman.