The whole ‘whine situation’ and a general community health analysis

[Svang]

People aren't complaining just because the game doesn't match their current expectations. People are complaining because it's becoming more and more apparent that the game will never reach even the lowest expectations that a lot of players had.
When a game or any other project nears completion, it is exceptionally rare that it gets "better" in a broad design sense, usually you just get gaps being filled in, and you can usually tell quite accurately whether a game will ever be good eventually, given of course that the same people are working on it.

They had 10 years to create a good gameplay loop and learn all the lessons from Warband, but they didn't. Now they've had over an entire year of gameplay feedback but they're basically ignoring the majority of it, and seem happy to just add new features and make minor balance changes when the entire design of the game is awful in so many fundamental ways. If they can't see these issues now, they never will.

Well said. This is what frustrates me the most.

 

[Stromming]

Read what you wrote man. Once again they can work on multiple things, emotes happened to be ready before other things. They need to apologize for implementing emotes? Seriously?

Like I responded earlier, they should work on multiple things yes. Multiple gameplay affecting things.

They should apologize for going back on their word. See some people in this world live by principles and the fact that their word is worth something.

If I say I am not going to do X, I am not just going to turn around and do it.

 

[Blood Gryphon]

Like I responded earlier, they should work on multiple things yes. Multiple gameplay affecting things.

They should apologize for going back on their word. See some people in this world live by principles and the fact that their word is worth something.

If I say I am not going to do X, I am not just going to turn around and do it.

Go find me the quote where they said they weren't going to work on emotes? Callums quotes are about banners not emotes. Callum does his best to provide us with information that he can, while doing his best to not make empty promises (not his fault if something changes). They are clearly working on "Stability, performance, and missing mechanics and features". Emotes can easily be considered a mechanic and not cosmetic (i do agree it is cosmetic in a sense of not having any impact on gameplay), so i don't see how they have gone back on their word by adding in emotes? Its not like they stopped the development to work solely on it.

Stew im still looking

 

[VelhoNoob]

Normally I wouldn’t feel like making a new thread with the Forum currently being as littered with all sorts of nonsense as it is now but with the existing degree of abuse I decided that it won’t make much difference if I share some of my thoughts for the sake of amusement.

So, people rant. Let’s face it, people go ape****. People act like freaking lunatics about Bannerlord. Is that a problem?

Well, at first I was rather upset by these post. After all, people do display inappropriate behavior! The first impulse for a reasonable response is to remind the ranters that there is a very explicit disclaimer that the game is nowhere near its intended state and people SHOULD NOT buy it until they are 100% sure they are ok with playing a mid-developed game without a definite completion deadline, etc, etc. Remind yet again and again. The game as a commodity is yet non-e-xis-tant, just as some new Netflix show you are waiting for is not out yet, a fiction book is not printed, a new flavour of your favourite cereal is not on the store shelves yet and it is in no way obliged to be.

But then myself I discovered that a chill pill is a thing (I actually suggest that you try it if you’re like me). After that I gradually became to enjoy these rant-post and even share the most hilarious quotes with my friends so we can enjoy them together.

Finally, at the third stage I started to think. Why are people acting like this? Is this unique to Bannerlord? And, as far as I can see, it is. Which turns out to be a good thing.

As a fact, people get zealous about a semi-indie video-game. I conclude that this is somewhat unprecedented. People got excited about World of Warcraft, GTA, Skyrim, yes. People have made YouTube videos of them dreaming of desired features and content for bunch of good games. But being THIS excited to go beyond all reasonable frustration over insanely inflated expectations to loose sleep and experience a spectrum of strong emotions, bordering with delirium, transmitted through various, various literal opuses before the game is even out? I can’t recall.

Conclusions? We are dealing with something unique in the field of creative and experimental community gaming. The game dev history is being written as we proudly witness. Let us pity the feeble minds of the weak who cannot hold to their sanity in the coming of Bannerlord.

I didn't want to get into an argument here but I have to say: the Bannerlord community is the most toxic I have ever followed. I'm still here just because I like the game so much.

 

[StewVader]

Go find me the quote where they said they weren't going to work on emotes? Callums quotes are about banners not emotes. Callum does his best to provide us with information that he can, while doing his best to not make empty promises (not his fault if something changes). They are clearly working on "Stability, performance, and missing mechanics and features". Emotes can easily be considered a mechanic and not cosmetic (i do agree it is cosmetic in a sense of not having any impact on gameplay), so i don't see how they have gone back on their word by adding in emotes? Its not like they stopped the development to work solely on it.

Stew im still looking

Blood dont worry about it. I can take you at your word that you have submitted many a report and many a suggestion in the early days.

 

[Stromming]

Go find me the quote where they said they weren't going to work on emotes? Callums quotes are about banners not emotes. Callum does his best to provide us with information that he can, while doing his best to not make empty promises (not his fault if something changes). They are clearly working on "Stability, performance, and missing mechanics and features". Emotes can easily be considered a mechanic and not cosmetic (i do agree it is cosmetic in a sense of not having any impact on gameplay), so i don't see how they have gone back on their word by adding in emotes? Its not like they stopped the development to work solely on it.

Stew im still looking

Banners will be making a return at a later date after some changes and improvements, but right now they are low-priority for us.

What is high priority? Sorry if I sound like a pest but I keep hearing low priority every time someone asks about a feature, or at least it seems like it.

Stability, performance, and missing mechanics and features. Banners are something that look pretty but don't currently affect gameplay, so for us, that is low-priority.

Callum some time later in a dev video:

"A number of cosmetic emotes have been added to the game to allow players to celebrate their victory alongside their troops."
"Currently this is only available in singeplayer."

I am not sure how much more I can spell it out for you.
Using this argument for banners and then developing emotes is pretty scummy if you ask me.

EDIT:
If they are going to use what free time they have to work on "pretty but not gameplay affecting" things, then at least make it something that people have requested, like BANNERS, not a multiplayer feature put into singleplayer.

 

[Blood Gryphon]

Blood dont worry about it. I can take you at your word that you have submitted many a report and many a suggestion in the early days.

I finally found the two i mentioned.

Go to page 9 to see the discussion on lowering siege settlement entrance penalty.
https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...d-spiral-for-fiefs.404712/page-9#post-9400238
It was implemented days later in the 1.3 beta "Breaking into a besieged fortification costs (lost men) are reduced by 25%."

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/patch-notes-e1-2-1-beta-hotfix.419548/

Got to page 5 to see the discussion on AI not being all knowing during sieges. Like i said we will see if this is implemented, I just asked if todays hotfix addresses it or if its for the potential starving issue.

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/economy-hotifx-did-the-opposite.428265/page-5#post-9510620

 

[Blood Gryphon]

Callum some time later in a dev video:


I am not sure how much more I can spell it out for you.
Using this argument for banners and then developing emotes is pretty scummy if you ask me.

EDIT:
If they are going to use what free time they have to work on "pretty but not gameplay affecting" things, then at least make it something that people have requested, like BANNERS, not a multiplayer feature put into singleplayer.

Again you assume its like a single entity working on this. Like im going to make an assumption right now and say that the person who built and implemented the emotes is not the person who is working on all the requested and desired features. I thought they said emotes arent in MP yet? Is that what your talking about when you say multiplayer feature?

 

[Stromming]

Again you assume its like a single entity working on this. Like im going to make an assumption right now and say that the person who built and implemented the emotes is not the person who is working on all the requested and desired features.

For the third time, I am not assuming anything like this. I know for a fact that it is not the case.

All I am asking for is:
Responsibility
Accountability
Communication
ROAD MAP

 

[khuzait haircut]

For the third time, I am not assuming anything like this. I know for a fact that it is not the case.

All I am asking for is:
Responsibility
Accountability
Communication
ROAD MAP

Some advice.. go for a walk. Take some time away from this game. You're getting very upset about a video game.

 

[NLCRich]

For the third time, I am not assuming anything like this. I know for a fact that it is not the case.

All I am asking for is:
Responsibility
Accountability
Communication
ROAD MAP

For the record, I think your argument fails at the point of logic. Clearly you have extremely high expectations for what Responsibility, Accountability, Communication, and ROAD MAP, mean. I personally don't think they have been that bad. Then again, I live in U.S. and our government itself doesn't have any of these things, so I guess I don't have much to compare to.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

Armagan for president

 

[Bob Gnarly]

This threads a perfect sample of the health of the community.

There's a big divide between the 'OMG it's been 10 years and TW didn't deliver the game I wanted' crowd and players that are satisfied or patiently waiting for more.

Luckily there's still a few posters around that provide interesting info, otherwise this place is only worth visiting to check patch updates.

 

[Stromming]

For the record, I think your argument fails at the point of logic. Clearly you have extremely high expectations for what Responsibility, Accountability, Communication, and ROAD MAP, mean. I personally don't think they have been that bad. Then again, I live in U.S. and our government itself doesn't have any of these things, so I guess I don't have much to compare to.

I mean, not really?
We teach our kids to be honest and to keep promises they make as well as to apologize for whenever they break them or lie. We impart priniciples and an honour system on them so they can grow up to be people we can be proud of and that people like, people who do the right thing.

All I am asking is for TW recognize that they have gone back on their word on what their priorities are, explain the reason why and then provide whatever information is necessary for the community to see that they have learned their lesson and that they won't do it again.

But you know, If I really have to explain things that we teach our kids to adults on the internet, maybe all hope is lost for the human race.

 

[Ferisko]

But you know, If I really have to explain things that we teach our kids to adults on the internet, maybe all hope is lost for the human race.

I loose hope in humanity while reading you

 

[Stromming]

I loose hope in humanity while reading you

Hey, if you want TW to be able to do whatever they want, say whatever they want and have no accountability for when they muck things up, good for you.

Also the fact that no TW employee, such as the community manager, has responded to the several threads complaining about this says a great deal about how they would rather stay silent and let the white knighted "TW can do no wrong" simps defend them until the earth crumbles into dust, rather than admitting that, yes maybe adding a pointless system no one asked for was a bad move when they've said that they aren't going to focus on such things.

 

[babelfisch]

Callum some time later in a dev video:


I am not sure how much more I can spell it out for you.
Using this argument for banners and then developing emotes is pretty scummy if you ask me.

EDIT:
If they are going to use what free time they have to work on "pretty but not gameplay affecting" things, then at least make it something that people have requested, like BANNERS, not a multiplayer feature put into singleplayer.

He said low priority, he didn't say nobody is allowed to work on it. You are a prime example of toxic gamers who are responsible for developers being silent. Please stop that nonsense and start to offer criticism instead of random accusations.

 

[babelfisch]

I mean, not really?
We teach our kids to be honest and to keep promises they make as well as to apologize for whenever they break them or lie.

So how about you apologise? You accused them of lying which is not what happened.
Instead you just act all entitled without realising how wrong you are.

 

[Stromming]

He said low priority, he didn't say nobody is allowed to work on it. You are a prime example of toxic gamers who are responsible for developers being silent. Please stop that nonsense and start to offer criticism instead of random accusations.

Then please tell me why are they working on low priority items when there are high priority ones to be dealt with?
Please tell me why they choose to work on something low priority that nobody asked for rather than the low priority plenty of people asked for?

Asking for answers to legit questions is not being a toxic gamer. It's being a responsible gamer that doesn't let people get away with whatever they feel like doing.

This is not a random accusation, this is real critisicm.
"You said you wouldn't do X and then you do X, what gives?"

Defending TW, or anything or anyone for the matter, to the ends of the earth, no matter what they do (even when it is deserved), is exactly what is wrong with people today. You see it all the time in game development, EA, Bethesda, Take-Two, Paradox as well as in politics and real life in general.

I will let you sing TW's praises so you should let me ask them uncomfortable questions, deal?

 

[babelfisch]

Then please tell me why are they working on low priority items when there are high priority ones to be dealt with?
Please tell me why they choose to work on something low priority that nobody asked for rather than the low priority plenty of people asked for?

Asking for answers to legit questions is not being a toxic gamer. It's being a responsible gamer that doesn't let people get away with whatever they feel like doing.

This is not a random accusation, this is real critisicm.
"You said you wouldn't do X and then you do X, what gives?"

Defending TW, or anything or anyone for the matter, to the ends of the earth, no matter what they do (even when it is deserved), is exactly what is wrong with people today. You see it all the time in game development, EA, Bethesda, Take-Two, Paradox as well as in politics and real life in general.

I will let you sing TW's praises so you should let me ask them uncomfortable questions, deal?

Stop acting like you are their boss. By the way, you make me sick.