The whole ‘whine situation’ and a general community health analysis

[Blood Gryphon]

I think this perfectly illustrates why they don't want to give us more information.

People wouldn't be so angry if they never told us why banners are coming later.

This is essentially what i was going to say. So callum gives us an indication of what they will be working on, no promises as things are subject to change. And people got mad when things changed, which is exactly the reason they don't want to give us a detailed roadmap. Detailed roadmaps only lead to disappointment in most big team developments.

 

[Stromming]

I think this perfectly illustrates why they don't want to give us more information.

People wouldn't be so angry if they never told us why banners are coming later.

I think it perfectly illustrates why they should give us a roadmap and communicate more with the community.+

This is essentially what i was going to say. So callum gives us an indication of what they will be working on, no promises as things are subject to change. And people got mad when things changed, which is exactly the reason they don't want to give us a detailed roadmap. Detailed roadmaps only lead to disappointment in most big team developments.

Lying developers only leads to disappointment too.

 

[babelfisch]

I think it perfectly illustrates why they should give us a roadmap and communicate more with the community.+

Maybe if we had a better community.

Lying developers only leads to disappointment too.

Lying developers? Please don't be ridiculous.

 

[Stromming]

Maybe if we had a better community.

Lying developers? Please don't be ridiculous.

The community is fine. It is much better than for other games.

Lie: noun. a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood. something intended or serving to convey a false impression; imposture:

Maybe it wasn't his intention to lie, but that's what it ended up becoming. Again, more and clearer communication would be the cure here.

 

[StewVader]

This is essentially what i was going to say. So callum gives us an indication of what they will be working on, no promises as things are subject to change. And people got mad when things changed, which is exactly the reason they don't want to give us a detailed roadmap. Detailed roadmaps only lead to disappointment in most big team developments.

Your line of thinking is so naive and asinine it just shocks me. So you prefer no way to hold the developers accountable during EA?

There SHOULD be a roadmap and if things change, THEY CAN EXPLAIN WHY they had to make changes to the roadmap. Your way of thinking allows for 0 accountability, 0 transparency, and also 0 community agency.

 

[TheBerserk]

There already are quite a few new features compared to Warband. Which is what the post was about IIRC.

pity that it remains less complete than a warband mod made by 4-5 people

And yet the game gets mostly positive reviews, so it's probably just your opinion and not anything that people should worry about.

if you are talking about steam reviews, you might as well say it's worthless. the steam notes have 2 simple evaluation notes: the blue thumb and the red one, which means that as a notation it is quite limited.

 

[Blood Gryphon]

Your line of thinking is so naive and asinine it just shocks me. So you prefer no way to hold the developers accountable during EA?

There SHOULD be a roadmap and if things change, THEY CAN EXPLAIN WHY they had to make changes to the roadmap. Your way of thinking allows for 0 accountability, 0 transparency, and also 0 community agency.

Hold them accountable to what?
Hello Mr Taleworlds you implemented features you didnt specifically mention! You didnt tell me first! Ohhh god where is the humanity! I've been betrayed by you mr taleworld! How will i go on! (/s for those that cant tell)

A roadmap is not the only way to make a game with a community, did the original mount and blade have a roadmap?

Thinking they need public roadmap to build a succesful game with a community is naive. Keeping up with a roadmap is just wasted time and broken promises. Get that childish "the customer is always right" attitude out of here, they are building the game they want. Successful games do not need to communicate with the community, look at No Mans Sky. TW decided they wanted to work with us, for that I am appreciative.

 

[Stromming]

Successful games do not need to communicate with the community, look at No Mans Sky. TW decided they wanted to work with us, for that I am appreciative.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH

Are you really using No Mans Sky as a positive example? Well I guess that settles it for me. There is literally no point in discussing with you if you are that blind.

You funny my dude. You real funny.

 

[StewVader]

Hold them accountable to what?
Hello Mr Taleworlds you implemented features you didnt specifically mention! You didnt tell me first! Ohhh god where is the humanity! I've been betrayed by you mr taleworld! How will i go on! (/s for those that cant tell)

A roadmap is not the only way to make a game with a community, did the original mount and blade have a roadmap?

Thinking they need public roadmap to build a succesful game with a community is naive. Keeping up with a roadmap is just wasted time and broken promises. Get that childish "the customer is always right" attitude out of here, they are building the game they want. Successful games do not need to communicate with the community, look at No Mans Sky. TW decided they wanted to work with us, for that I am appreciative.

Now your being dramatic, or inferring emotion that is not present.

Yes, selling a game for full price in EA comes with expectations of what the game will be, so there is a built in need for accountability, especially if communication just evaporates for months (which it did). That should be obvious to anyone with a functioning brain.

A roadmap is an effective way to develop a game with the community. It allows for precise communication, development, testing, and balancing - rather than adhoc. It also communicates the direction of the game to the players.

LOL. Dude you are such a sycophant. The notion that this game has been impacted by player suggestions is just a flat out mischaracterization of reality.

 

[Blood Gryphon]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH

Are you really using No Mans Sky as a positive example? Well I guess that settles it for me. There is literally no point in discussing with you if you are that blind.

You funny my dude. You real funny.

Are you blind to what has happened since release with NMS? No Man's Sky won the Innovation Award and was nominated for the Best Technology Award for the 2017 Game Developers Choice Awards.[182][183] Murray and other members of Hello Games had attended the Game Developers Conference, but had not expected to win anything given the game's reputation by that point, and opted to go elsewhere for dinner when they were named the winners of the Innovation Award.[184] The game was nominated for the Excellence in Technical Achievement for the 2017 SXSW Gaming Awards.[185] The title was also named for the British Game award for the 13th British Academy Games Awards.[186] PC Gamer named No Man's Sky its Best Ongoing Game award in 2017, and Shacknews considered it the Best Comeback in 2017, both praising the updates added in the year since its launch that had improved how one interacted with the game.[187][188] The game was nominated for "Best Co-operative Game" and "Xbox Game of the Year" with No Man's Sky Next at the 2018 Golden Joystick Awards,[189][190] and for "Best Ongoing Game" at The Game Awards 2018,[191][192] and won the award for "Most Evolved Game" at the 2019 SXSW Gaming Awards.[193][194] At the Italian Video Game Awards, it was nominated for "Best Evolving Game".[195] Beyond VR was nominated for "Best Game Expansion" and "Best VR/AR Game" at the 2019 Golden Joystick Awards,[196] for the latter category at The Game Awards 2019,[197] and for "Evolving Game" at the 16th British Academy Games Awards,[198] and won the award for "XR Game of the Year" at the 2020 SXSW Gaming Awards.[199]

It honestly describes Bannerlord's EA situation pretty well.

Overhyped at launch due to the company speaking about features that were not ready or having been scraped. Horde of people ****ting on the game because they had overhyped it. Developers keep working on the project regardless and actually implemented requested features (like multiplayer and base building, something they said would not happen) without ever actually communicating with the community or providing a roadmap.

Now your being dramatic, or inferring emotion that is not present.

Yes, selling a game for full price in EA comes with expectations of what the game will be, so there is a built in need for accountability, especially if communication just evaporates for months (which it did). That should be obvious to anyone with a functioning brain.

A roadmap is an effective way to develop a game with the community. It allows for precise communication, development, testing, and balancing - rather than adhoc. It also communicates the direction of the game to the players.

LOL. Dude you are such a sycophant. The notion that this game has been impacted by player suggestions is just a flat out characterization of reality.

That first part was more for Stromming, the man hurt by emotes being put in, than for you.

You have all of their expectations on the EA description, so far they have not strayed from that. Show me where they need to be held accountable in that description?

So thats why the roadmap for Star Citizen has done wonders right? It took them 3 months to provide a roadmap to the roadmap after having to take down their old roadmap because it just wasnt realistic.

I agree you haven't had an impact on the game, but plenty of others have helped impact the course of this game by (ONCE AGAIN MY MAIN POINT) providing feedback and suggestions with evidence and actual analysis.

 

[NLCRich]

Last roadmap I believe they shared was in May? It's almost September now.

Don't you dare use dev videos as an excuse either, because that is stuff that has already been developed.
People want to know what TW has NOT done that WILL be done in the coming months, so people have time to react to it.

"Oh you are going to work on this? But no one cares about this..."

But clearly doesn't seem to help because they still went ahead and did SP emotes.

Sharing what they are working and/or are complete or mostly complete with development on, but not released, is still content to come that they are letting us know about. Game development is something that is always in flux. Sometimes ideas are tried out and then scrapped for one reason or another. You don't need anymore information than that. It's not like any other dev company gives you some silly roadmap indicating all kinds of features they haven't even toyed with yet. Most developers simply release the content as it completed and say nothing more whatsoever. So, yes, it does count. Not to mention, right on the early access page are the original planned features and changes that they are still working on, all marked out for us in advance and still being worked on. What more do you want? I barely get to know when the next ball game is my team is going to play, let alone a years worth of dev changes all mapped out for you. As if they need to be wasting their time on that right now.

 

[Stromming]

Are you blind to what has happened since release with NMS?

It honestly describes Bannerlord's EA situation pretty well.

Overhyped at launch due to the company speaking about features that were not ready or having been scraped. Horde of people ****ting on the game because they had overhyped it. Developers keep working on the project regardless and actually implemented requested features (like multiplayer and base building, something they said would not happen) without ever actually communicating with the community or providing a roadmap.


That first part was more for Stromming, the man hurt by emotes being put in, than for you.

You have all of their expectations on the EA description, so far they have not strayed from that. Show me where they need to be held accountable in that description?

So thats why the roadmap for Star Citizen has done wonders right? It took them 3 months to provide a roadmap to the roadmap after having to take down their old roadmap because it just wasnt realistic.

I agree you haven't had an impact on the game, but plenty of others have helped impact the course of this game.

I'm not hurt by emotes. I am flabbergasted by their lack of consistency and their flagrant disregard for principles and putting their money where their mouth is.

If they make statement saying: "We will not do X because we want to focus on Y", and then they go ahead and do X anyway, then we all should call them out on it. And so far TW has never responded to any criticism regarding this because apparently apologizing isn't their thing.

Also, you have no idea what impact he has or has not had on the game. You seem to have an overly high opinion about yourself and the feedback you provided to TW, so you place them on a pedestal and you white knight them like a simp.

This is what community feedback should look like:

1. Give TW constructive criticism when we want to give them feedback to improve the game
2. Praise TW when they do something good
3. Call TW out for their crap when they make a mistake.

All of these are valid.

Edit:

You don't need anymore information than that. It's not like any other dev company gives you some silly roadmap indicating all kinds of features they haven't even toyed with yet. Most developers simply release the content as it completed and say nothing more whatsoever.

Most developers don't give excuses as to why they aren't fixing a certain feature, and then immediately go back on their own word in order to implement another feature no one asked for (but was maybe appreciated by a few).

 

[svennd]

Excuse me you did the what now? You added something completely useless I would assume the majority of SP players don't care about instead of an actual feature or game system. Take your stinking emotes and shove them into MP where they belong.

You sir take that back! I love my SP emotes.

You might be surprised to learn that in fact, at its core, coding that in must have taken the better part of 15 minutes.The animation of the character is already included anyway, its just applying it to a user model. In fact its weird its not in warband.

 

[Stromming]

You sir take that back! I love my SP emotes.

You might be surprised to learn that in fact, at its core, coding that in must have taken the better part of 15 minutes.The animation of the character is already included anyway, its just applying it to a user model. In fact its weird its not in warband.

The point isn't the fact that it was easy or didn't take so much time. The point is that they said they would not focus on things that are only cosmetic and doesn't affect gameplay.

Then they did the thing they said they wouldn't do.

 

[Blood Gryphon]

I'm not hurt by emotes. I am flabbergasted by their lack of consistency and their flagrant disregard for principles and putting their money where their mouth is.

If they make statement saying: "We will not do X because we want to focus on Y", and then they go ahead and do X anyway, then we all should call them out on it. And so far TW has never responded to any criticism regarding this because apparently apologizing isn't their thing.

Also, you have no idea what impact he has or has not had on the game. You seem to have an overly high opinion about yourself and the feedback you provided to TW, so you place them on a pedestal and you white knight them like a simp.

Read what you wrote man. Once again they can work on multiple things, emotes happened to be ready before other things. They need to apologize for implementing emotes? Seriously?

I'm not placing them on a pedastol, if i was I wouldn't be actively bug hunting and providing analysed detailed suggestions for improvement. I highly encourage more people to do it, because the more of us who do the better the game will be. But honestly most of this forum are people who havent played the game in months and love to come ****post on the forums complaining about bugs/issues but not in a format that a developer can take and use.

StewVader said

The notion that this game has been impacted by player suggestions is just a flat out mischaracterization of reality.

which implies he doesn't feel like he or other players have had an impact. As someone who has had a minor impact, I can confidently disspell that statement.

This is what community feedback should look like:

1. Give TW constructive criticism when we want to give them feedback to improve the game
2. Praise TW when they do something good
3. Call TW out for their crap when they make a mistake.

All of these are valid.

I agree.

Edit: You aren't roadmap man so I shouldn't suggest you want them

 

[StewVader]

The point isn't the fact that it was easy or didn't take so much time. The point is that they said they would not focus on things that are only cosmetic and doesn't affect gameplay.

Then they did the thing they said they wouldn't do.

And, despite what this strange bird Blood Gryphon thinks (and has not demonstrated), the feed back and suggestion section of the forum does not appear to have any meaningful impact on development.

No, sorry Blood Gryphon, I very much doubt your feedback has made an impact on the game, just like the vast majority of players making feedback and suggestions; your feedback is not special. Moreover, pointing out things obviously wrong with the game, like diplomacy, and linking your suggestion to work on Diplomacy to a post from the Dev's saying they are going to work on Diplomacy does not indicate that your feedback had anything to do with it. Its an OBVIOUS problem that needs attention, whether you "suggested" it or not.

I'm still amazed that you think your feedback has had a significant impact on development decisions. You are a strange bird.

 

[StewVader]

which implies he doesn't feel like he or other players have had an impact. As someone who has had a minor impact, I can confidently disspell that statement.

LOL this cracks me up. Please demonstrate that you have made a minor impact on the game's development. Please, we will wait.

 

[StewVader]

Read what you wrote man. Once again they can work on multiple things, emotes happened to be ready before other things. They need to apologize for implementing emotes? Seriously?

I'm not placing them on a pedastol, if i was I wouldn't be actively bug hunting and providing analysed detailed suggestions for improvement. I highly encourage more people to do it, because the more of us who do the better the game will be. But honestly most of this forum are people who havent played the game in months and love to come ****post on the forums complaining about bugs/issues but not in a format that a developer can take and use.

StewVader said

which implies he doesn't feel like he or other players have had an impact. As someone who has had a minor impact, I can confidently disspell that statement.

I agree.

Edit: You aren't roadmap man so I shouldn't suggest you want them

LOL! I just reviewed your post history. Not a single post in the Feedback and Suggestions forum, only 1 crash report, and the vast majority of your post are in the General Discussion.

Now I know your are just trolling.

 

[Blood Gryphon]

LOL! I just reviewed your post history. Not a single post in the feedback and Suggestions forum, only 1 crash report, and the vast majority of your post are in the General Discussion.

Now I know your are just trolling.

I'm looking for the quote right now (its past page 10) and i agree I have been posting too much recently its making it a ***** to find. I'll find it eventually and edit this post

 

[StewVader]

I'm looking for the quote right now (its past page 10) and i agree I have been posting too much recently its making it a ***** to find. I'll find it eventually and edit this post

Fair enough.