The whole ‘whine situation’ and a general community health analysis

[StewVader]

In the development roadmap, there's no mention of implementation of new features, only polishing existing features/bugfixing.



I usually don't. But the problem here is not people "buying early access and expecting full release", the problem here is that even the most minimal expectations of a game that has been in development for 10 years aren't being met. And that on top of that, Taleworlds is not communicating to us that they will be attempting to remedy the situation by working on and adding the absolutely crucial missing features in Bannerlord, instead they focus on spear bracing for multiplayer, "cheering" for singleplayer, and a non-functional succession and main story system.

A nonsensical succession system too boot. There are not enough fiefs or mechanics to warrant a "succession" system in this game. Additionally, by the time your first character dies, the game is fundamentally over because of snowballing - either the player snowballing or an AI faction snowballing.

Not to even bring up the horrible gameplay loop of: defeat lord, capture lord, lord escapes, lord comes back, lord sieges / pillages, defeat lord, capture lord, lord escapes, etc etc.

And the game can't even function properly without the lords escaping and cheating in core party templates.

It's just fundamentally flawed.

 

[Stromming]

Cheering is one of the best features to come out of recent patches, plus it was mentioned in this thread https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...ing-plans-for-singleplayer-and-engine.422296/ while banners were not.I think it's fine to assume they still are keeping some priorities.

"One of the best features to come out of recent patches". Is that a joke?
Who really cares about cheering in SP when we could have our dynasty system implemented properly instead? Or maybe functioning perks? Possibly fixing a semi-broken economy? Or maybe do a little more work to fix the snowballing? How about fixing kingdom diplomacy? Maybe finally fix smithing which is OP as heck.

Also, your post literally only proves that TW is either;

1. Full of crap
2. Lying to us
3. Have no clue what their actual roadmap and priorities are.

Your link goes to a post made on the 8th of May and my quote from Callum is from the 4th of August. The dev video showcasing emotes came out on the 1st of August.
I guess it is possible that they have already fixed all the cosmetics that they want, and therefore aren't going to do it anymore (SIKE COMMUNITY) which doesn't make it a complete lie.

Or they literally just have their priorities wrong and are too embarrassed to tell us so they tell us sweet little lies and mislead/misdirect us.

Are any of the suggestions planned to be implemented into the game? (This one in particular because you guys seem to stay on your track)

Yes, and yes. Some already made their way into the game (e.g. conversation screen on the world map), and some will be coming in future patches (I won't spoil those though!).

I reiterate. Give us a roadmap and stop hiding.

 

[Blood Gryphon]

LOL. Wait, so what is it exactly that you personally have shaped into the game?

My best example which I believe I can take a majority of credit for, loosening the penalty for troop loss when entering a besieged castle to defend. Also not yet implemented so who knows when (soon i believe), enemy AI armies will be less "all knowing" and actually stick around attacking a castle that they have a chance to lose. Right now AI know exactly when they have losing chances and leave when it is so, which leads to defending rarely happening.

Also, "but holy **** the progress in the past few months has been outstanding". That's your opinion, and its certainly not a demonstrable fact.

It is also your opinion that is has not been, which is certainly not a demonstrable fact. Your expectation of progress has the same validity as mine, considering we both have no ****ing idea.

 

[KSHMR]

normal stuff

 

[Stromming]

My best example which I believe I can take a majority of credit for, loosening the penalty for troop loss when entering a besieged castle to defend. Also not yet implemented so who knows when (soon i believe), enemy AI armies will be less "all knowing" and actually stick around attacking a castle that they have a chance to lose. Right now AI know exactly when they have losing chances and leave when it is so, which leads to defending rarely happening.



It is also your opinion that is has not been, which is certainly not a demonstrable fact. Your expectation of progress has the same validity as mine, considering we both have no ****ing idea.

Are you literally only basing your "achievements" on that you have posted bugs in the bug thread and they've said "we will look into this / we will fix this?".

Please say it is a little more than that.

 

[Mizza]

The only thing I dislike about the game is invisible walls ..

 

[Blood Gryphon]

A nonsensical succession system too boot. There are not enough fiefs or mechanics to warrant a "succession" system in this game. Additionally, by the time your first character dies, the game is fundamentally over because of snowballing - either the player snowballing or an AI faction snowballing.

To be fair you need the succession system before you start letting everyone die off. This is definitely an issue I've been prodding about. What I've gotten is they are attempting to make the first generation gameplay sustainable and then start to worry making gameplay generational (my assumption).

Not to even bring up the horrible gameplay loop of: defeat lord, capture lord, lord escapes, lord comes back, lord sieges / pillages, defeat lord, capture lord, lord escapes, etc etc.

And the game can't even function properly without the lords escaping and cheating in core party templates.

It's just fundamentally flawed.

This really isn't an issue anymore, if you under stand the basics of keeping them in your fief or ensuring you have over 80 troops to have the highest chance of them not escaping. Also armies can reappear so fast because quite often there is a reserve of lords who weren't in an army and get called to one once another is defeated. Lords of the previously defeated army then spend their time recruiting from villages or taking out troops from their garrisons, their spawned troops are only enough to help them travel without being captured by looters (a previous annoying issue). My most recent playthrough as a kingdom on 1.4.3 showed me no issues with zombie armies.

Are you literally only basing your "achievements" on that you have posted bugs in the bug thread and they've said "we will look into this / we will fix this?".

Please say it is a little more than that.

Nope not talking about the bug reports, but i also do that a lot as well. Sorry that might seem like one thing, but its actually two (lower penalty for entering a siege castle [already in] and AI army not being perfect [not in yet]) which neither are bugs. It's a lot more than that, but I've realized its prob for the best to not discuss things in the works. Also like I said I don't want to take credit for issues others have helped with. My main point is if you provide feedback and suggestions with evidence and actual analysis they will gladly listen and implement.

 

[Mr. Walfington]

But the problem here is not people "buying early access and expecting full release", the problem here is that even the most minimal expectations of a game that has been in development for 10 years aren't being met. And that on top of that, Taleworlds is not communicating to us that they will be attempting to remedy the situation by working on and adding the absolutely crucial missing features in Bannerlord, instead they focus on spear bracing for multiplayer, "cheering" for singleplayer, and a non-functional succession and main story system.

Holy hell how does a community of medieval fantasy gamers get whipped into such an irredeemable nerd rage?

The "minimal expectations" not yet completed are EASILY fixed it just seems obvious that the fix is involved with a long term strategy.

Obviously they're not going to fix placeholder perks which they already decided would be removed if it just wastes productivity. Or if the mechanics of certain perks are dependent on new systems not yet implemented they're not going to waste time bandaiding the code when the user can just open a file in notepad and edit it to use longbows on horses.

Hate to break it to some people but it's legally extremely unlikely for a team of 60+ people to get paid to just sit around and laugh at you, "ha ha ha we didn't even push the full Athletics perks changes! Oh well it's lunch time! Come on boys dig into the free company musaka and let's laugh at these clowns whining on the forums! Oh what's that?? Another EA sale? Make that TWO rounds of musaka!! Look at them whine!!"

Even the lowest state or nonprofit coding jobs DO produce tangible results. Hate to break it to you conspiracy theorists who think this is just one elaborate scam to make fake knight and castles games.

 

[NLCRich]

Personally, I feel like people have a right to complain about features, mechanics, and all things that can be improved. I don't think it is all so non constructive. However, comments that some people have made in this thread are simply, entirely false, and really are non constructive and pointless. I'm talking about statements like:

-BL will never be a good game
-Devs don't tell us what they're planning
-This feature came too soon

I mean, for crying out loud, they've been going out of there way to show us things long before they are ready. The lack of patience from some people is astounding. We should be happy they are working on it. And yes, I wanted to yell after winning the battle as much as anyone else, lol. There will be things that don't work right and need improvement. That's EA. To say the game won't get any better is so undeniably false. That's the whole point!

 

[Stromming]

My main point is if you provide feedback and suggestions with evidence and actual analysis they will gladly listen and implement.

If that was true, emotes would have gotten thrown on the low priority list because everyone is asking for tons of stuff, but I can't ever remember anyone asking for emotes in single player.

Don't get me wrong here. I love the game. I think TW is doing a fab job for the most part.
But you know how sometimes you can get really pissed off at your friends or family for being dicks, but you still love them? It's like that, except for the creepy part of it actually feeling like your family, which it isnt.

 

[babelfisch]

In the development roadmap, there's no mention of implementation of new features, only polishing existing features/bugfixing.

There already are quite a few new features compared to Warband. Which is what the post was about IIRC.

I usually don't. But the problem here is not people "buying early access and expecting full release", the problem here is that even the most minimal expectations of a game that has been in development for 10 years aren't being met. And that on top of that, Taleworlds is not communicating to us that they will be attempting to remedy the situation by working on and adding the absolutely crucial missing features in Bannerlord, instead they focus on spear bracing for multiplayer, "cheering" for singleplayer, and a non-functional succession and main story system.

And yet the game gets mostly positive reviews, so it's probably just your opinion and not anything that people should worry about.

 

[Stromming]

I mean, for crying out loud, they've been going out of there way to show us things long before they are ready.

Last roadmap I believe they shared was in May? It's almost September now.

Don't you dare use dev videos as an excuse either, because that is stuff that has already been developed.
People want to know what TW has NOT done that WILL be done in the coming months, so people have time to react to it.

"Oh you are going to work on this? But no one cares about this..."

But clearly doesn't seem to help because they still went ahead and did SP emotes.

 

[Stromming]

And yet the game gets mostly positive reviews, so it's probably just your opinion and not anything that people should worry about.

I have given the game a positive review and I am here complaining, and no I am not going to change it to a negative review.
So your argument is invalid.

 

[Blood Gryphon]

If that was true, emotes would have gotten thrown on the low priority list because everyone is asking for tons of stuff, but I can't ever remember anyone asking for emotes in single player.

Don't get me wrong here. I love the game. I think TW is doing a fab job for the most part.
But you know how sometimes you can get really pissed off at your friends or family for being dicks, but you still love them? It's like that, except for the creepy part of it actually feeling like your family, which it isnt.

Please remember they are capable of doing multiple things and honestly cheering was something they likely had almost implemented from the start. Hence all the cheering mods we got after EA release. To use that as proof they aren't listening is just bull****, in many cases the easiest things to get done are the fastest. Like should they hold off implementing easy things they've had planned to not hurt your feelings? Because for some reason it did.

 

[babelfisch]

I have given the game a positive review and I am here complaining, and no I am not going to change it to a negative review.
So your argument is invalid.

And there are people who gave a negative review and still play the game or would give it a positive review after a few more patches. So your argument is invalid as well which makes my argument valid again.

By the way, there is nothing wrong with criticising the game. That's what EA is all about.

 

[Stromming]

Please remember they are capable of doing multiple things

Yeah, they can work on several broken things at once

and honestly cheering was something they likely had almost implemented from the start. Hence all the cheering mods we got after EA release.

Is that why they announced they would work on it in May and in August announced it would be implemented? I'm not sure about your math but for me that seems like 3 months of game development. As you said, it was already in a mod right after EA, meaning there is literally no point in doing this cosmetic thing that most people don't care about, and those that do can get a mod. This should have been right at the end of the list together with other cosmetic items like banners.

To use that as proof they aren't listening is just bull****

No, it really isnt. It's only one example, but it's not nothing.

in many cases the easiest things to get done are the fastest.

Then why did it take months when it took weeks for modders?

Like should they hold off implementing easy things they've had planned to not hurt your feelings? Because for some reason it did.

They should hold off of implemented cosmetics when they can fix broken systems and finish developing incomplete features. have you literally seen anyone on the forum crying about not having emotes? I haven't.

And there are people who gave a negative review and still play the game or would give it a positive review after a few more patches. So your argument is invalid as well which makes my argument valid again.

By the way, there is nothing wrong with criticising the game. That's what EA is all about.

I didn't even have an argument that could be made invalid. It was literally only a post to invalidate yours. What you just wrote doesn't make what I wrote false, so that doesn't even make sense.

And I agree with you. Criticism is important, and it is important that it is constructive. HOWEVER I fully understand, and sometimes agree, with people complaining that TW is messing up, because sometimes they are.

 

[babelfisch]

I didn't even have an argument that could be made invalid. It was literally only a post to invalidate yours. What you just wrote doesn't make what I wrote false, so that doesn't even make sense.

I wasn't that serious. Still, if the game would be as ****ed up and bad as some people claim it would get worse reviews.

And I agree with you. Criticism is important, and it is important that it is constructive. HOWEVER I fully understand, and sometimes agree, with people complaining that TW is messing up, because sometimes they are.

Absolutely, everyone can mess up.

 

[Blood Gryphon]

Yeah, they can work on several broken things at once


Is that why they announced they would work on it in May and in August announced it would be implemented? I'm not sure about your math but for me that seems like 3 months of game development. As you said, it was already in a mod right after EA, meaning there is literally no point in doing this cosmetic thing that most people don't care about, and those that do can get a mod. This should have been right at the end of the list together with other cosmetic items like banners.


No, it really isnt. It's only one example, but it's not nothing.


Then why did it take months when it took weeks for modders?


They should hold off of implemented cosmetics when they can fix broken systems and finish developing incomplete features. have you literally seen anyone on the forum crying about not having emotes? I haven't.

The mod versions were not as in-depth as the current version, there was not a radial with multiple choice for the voiceline I wanted to use (something I personally appreciate, **** option 2). You are correct they put it in 3 months later but what makes you assume they spent all 3 months on it? You base your misgivings on assumptions you personally made.

Also I've got plenty of examples of them listening, just do a search on devs (do i need to name them, you know who im talking about). I'm one of those people they have heard out and taken what they thought could be applicable (not all my ideas are). Again the difference between banners and cheering is pretty big. Cheering has no impact on performance, while banners have had a major issue with performance (i do agree banners can wait).

 

[Stromming]

The mod versions were not as in-depth as the current version, there was not a radial with multiple choice for the voiceline I wanted to use (something I personally appreciate, **** option 2). You are correct they put it in 3 months later but what makes you assume they spent all 3 months on it? You base your misgivings on assumptions you personally made.

Also I've got plenty of examples of them listening, just do a search on devs (do i need to name them, you know who im talking about). I'm one of those people they have heard out and taken what they thought could be applicable (not all my ideas are). Again the difference between banners and cheering is pretty big. Cheering has no impact on performance, while banners have had a major issue with performance (i do agree banners can wait).

Sure, I have had devs answer me too in regards to feedback, as have loads of people here. But that's not the point I am making.
And time spent developing is irrelevant if they say they aren't going to do it at all (for now) but then do it anyway.

> Callum says they will not focus on developing cosmetic things that don't affect gameplay, because they want to focus on gameplay
> Callum announces cheering (cosmetic thing that don't affect gameplay)

It leaves a sour taste in plenty of mouths. And all we really want, is for them to give us a roadmap on what they are going to focus on for the next month or three.
We don't want promises, just more information so we can see that the feedback we are providing are having a real impact, because it doesn't feel as though they really listen to the community when we want bugs fixed, or actual gameplay features implemented, and they give us a "MP teabag taunt" system.

 

[babelfisch]

Sure, I have had devs answer me too in regards to feedback, as have loads of people here. But that's not the point I am making.
And time spent developing is irrelevant if they say they aren't going to do it at all (for now) but then do it anyway.

> Callum says they will not focus on developing cosmetic things that don't affect gameplay, because they want to focus on gameplay
> Callum announces cheering (cosmetic thing that don't affect gameplay)

It leaves a sour taste in plenty of mouths. And all we really want, is for them to give us a roadmap on what they are going to focus on for the next month or three.
We don't want promises, just more information so we can see that the feedback we are providing are having a real impact, because it doesn't feel as though they really listen to the community when we want bugs fixed, or actual gameplay features implemented, and they give us a "MP teabag taunt" system.

I think this perfectly illustrates why they don't want to give us more information.

People wouldn't be so angry if they never told us why banners are coming later.