The use(lessness) of knives

[No name]

The other day i tried to make a character who wields knives only. Thats right, no shields. So what i realised was that he was really useless. This is because knives cant block, do miserable damage, and had really short reach. Not to mention he is slow and vulnerable to ranged attacks. Now i love having different weapons, and i want to improve the knife. Here's my suggestion.

-Dash stab
This is to compensate for the lack of block, and the slow movement of the knife wielder. By pressing the block button, the character leaps forward. It can be combined with an attack to deliver a nice poke.

-Fast strikes
The character uses his knife to deal quick succession of blows. By jamming the attack button, he will viciously attack with short range stabs.

-Bleed
Though most wounds would bleed, but for knives we can deal more severe wounds like stab to the stomach or kidney. Cause Damage over time wounds.

-Better knives
I have searched for knives on the marketplace and most of them were really lousy, like a butcher's knife. We should have better knives in the game.

-Stealth
Ok you guys are going to blast, but this is just a suggestion and i'm not calling to implement it. If there was stealth in the game, the knife can be used for backstabs and taking out sentries quietly. For example before a castle attack, we can sneak into the castle and kill the tower guards, then open the gates.

Thats all. Thanks.

 

[The Pope]

Why should knives be good? Not every oddball character you come up with should be guaranteed to work.

 

[Wood]

The knife is a peasant weapon, has a tiny blade and is more suited to chopping vegetables than people. Why should it be any good in combat?

 

[Melvin Poon]

This does raise some interesting points.

Knife fighters tend to be a fast bunch - be slow and you're gonna be poked full of holes before you even get close. I am not sure about the programming required, but maybe increasing the knife's speed will make it more attractive. However, knife fighting often does not inflict a lot of damage to armoured bodies, so the balance could be that knives will deliver lesser Max damage but at greater speeds.

Also, some weapons should not deliver damage when you are up close and personal, so a faster knife fighter can run inside the reach of weapons (eg, lances, spears, etc) and deliver that kill.

2cts worth.

 

[DaLagga]

I do think knives should have their attack speed greatly increased. It doesn't make much sense that they're only slightly faster than most swords right now. However, it is just a knife, and should still suck regardless.

-Fast strikes
The character uses his knife to deal quick succession of blows. By jamming the attack button, he will viciously attack with short range stabs.

Am i the only one who got a mental image of E. Honda from Street Fighter 2 when i read this?

 

[Sir Saladin]

I thought that knife fighting in the U.S. went out of style in 1968. Even then they only wore leather jackets. So knives would be weak in a real battle against men with swords and hammers and battle axes wearing chainmail.

 

[Ilex]

Knife is far too good with high athletics when fighting 1 on 1. The foe will never get a chance to attack. (Note: when using shield with a knife, without a shield you should get chopped into cubes of meat for being such a fool and bring a knife into a battlefield).

 

[Sir Saladin]

Oh, you mean throwing knives. I forgot about that.

 

[Bigwig]

Knights carried rondels, a kind of dagger, in combat as a sidearm because they were so effective at piercing through chain and into the weak points of platemail, or into the visor. This is one of the only ways a very heavily armoured opponent could be killed. Daggers were very useful.

However I don't think that knife fighting is ever going to be useful unless there is some sort of grappling ability that you can use when you are well inside the enemy's weapon reach. It's going to be hard shoving your dagger into a joint in your opponents armour unless you're pinning him down somehow and denying him use of his weapon.

 

[Daimyo]

Stilettos were used to finish off foes. Such as you beat him to a pulp with a sword/mace/axe, then while he lies on the ground almost unconscious, you can kill him with a nice pointy bladed thing between plate joints/visors instead of stripping him of a whole armor suit.

 

[Sir Saladin]

You rip the helmet off and stick the dagger in his throat and ask "Do you yield?" And he says "Only for trains and police cars."

 

[No name]

The knife is a peasant weapon, has a tiny blade and is more suited to chopping vegetables than people. Why should it be any good in combat?

Obviously, you guys have not seen vicious knife fights before. Dont stereotype knives because of their short blades. Against an armoured sword wielder, an experienced knife user has a good chance of killing him. All it takes is one blunder, and he can zipping in and deliver killing strikes to vulnerable areas. Besides, its not all the time you can meet an enemy in full plate. Knives can wound people in leather and even chainmail.

In any case, a knife stab is of similar force to an arrow strike. Yet in M&B we can wound a guy in plate mail, or headshot someone with full helm, so why the exception now? Very inconsistent opinions here.

 

[Maelstorm]

Still a knife guy chopping black knights sounds weird. I think its good the way it is, considering the general game mechanics.

 

[BobG]

My feeling here is that the knife is a weapon in the game mainly so that peasants and low-level bandits can carry them when they face you in battle. I don't think they're meant for you to take them seriously as a weapon choice for your character.

 

[Ordie]

In good games, there are usually two focus: either realism or balance. Realism means that things are how they are/were in real life, or would be. Balance is when it is given the player the ability to suceed no matter what tecnique he uses. Mount and Blade is focused on realism, and as thus, not all weapons are balanced. When confronted a dark knight with a peasant with a knife, you cant complain and request to be able for the peasent to win. The only way for him to win would be if he had very high stats (and the knight be almost level 1), but that's what would happen in real life. A battle-hardened soldier deprived of his weapon and armour could supposely beat a trainee, if he had no idea whatsoever of what he was doing.

 

[mfberg]

Still a knife guy chopping black knights sounds weird.

Tell that to Borcha, I have seen him go ginsu on 2 Dark Knights in a row with his dagger after his arrows ran out. I think you can stunlock most footmen with a knife, but horsemen take lots of work.

mfberg

 

[n00854180t]

The other day i tried to make a character who wields knives only. Thats right, no shields. So what i realised was that he was really useless. This is because knives cant block, do miserable damage, and had really short reach. Not to mention he is slow and vulnerable to ranged attacks. Now i love having different weapons, and i want to improve the knife. Here's my suggestion.

-Dash stab
This is to compensate for the lack of block, and the slow movement of the knife wielder. By pressing the block button, the character leaps forward. It can be combined with an attack to deliver a nice poke.

-Fast strikes
The character uses his knife to deal quick succession of blows. By jamming the attack button, he will viciously attack with short range stabs.

-Bleed
Though most wounds would bleed, but for knives we can deal more severe wounds like stab to the stomach or kidney. Cause Damage over time wounds.

-Better knives
I have searched for knives on the marketplace and most of them were really lousy, like a butcher's knife. We should have better knives in the game.

-Stealth
Ok you guys are going to blast, but this is just a suggestion and i'm not calling to implement it. If there was stealth in the game, the knife can be used for backstabs and taking out sentries quietly. For example before a castle attack, we can sneak into the castle and kill the tower guards, then open the gates.

Thats all. Thanks.

You can do most of that by merely getting a high agility and athletics. When enemies are blocking, they leave themselves open right before they attack. It's easy enough with high agility and a fast weapoin (and good weapon skill, and good athletics skill) to dash in and stab a couple of times, then dash back out before they're able to swing their weapon.

 

[Bigwig]

Oh yeah, I don't see why you can cut with daggers since they're primarily stabbing weapons. Slashing with daggers looks pretty stupid and ineffective, if they were piercing only I'd probably use them more.

 

[n00854180t]

It's fairly trivial to make them primarily piercing weapons with the Unofficial Editor.

 

[Mizkif]

My squad leader in the Army, a disgruntled old bastard who was a Special Forces operative for over 12 years, often gives me 1-on-1 pointers for knife fighting. I'll never forget what the first thing he told me was:

"The best way to win a knife fight is to run away... and then you come back later with a sawed-off shotgun."

In other words, knife fighting is extremely deadly, and if you get into a knife fight with another guy, chances are you'll both end up in the hospital. A knife against a sword in a conventional fight gives extremely good odds in favor of the sword. However, if the person with the knife has the element of surprise and the other guy has an exposed brain stem...