The Turkish Army in Syria 2019

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Antonis said:
Lol. Khergit Lancer deleted a post where he basically said the invasion was just an anti-terrorist operation, not a war, because war happens against another state or nation(disregarding the fact that Syria IS another state or nation). Also, he proclaimed his worship for Kemal, quoting the great leader and said that if I don't believe PKK are terrorists(missing entirely my point), I should listen to Ash Carter and believe. And some other bull**** I don't remember, probably. :razz:
Just FYI

I deleted it because it changed the page which could have been perceived disrespectful by Cioss who just one second before posted his own post.

Not because I am ashamed of it or sth, I completely stand behind it. Though you doing what you did clearly shows you are disrespectful. I could have deleted it because feeling like it. You arent the one to publicly announce what I deleted.

I am not ashamed of what I said, in fact let me say it again.

This is an operation against PKK/YPG, you dont make war against terrorists, you do operation. War can be conducted only against states not terrorist organisations and yes your own men admitted the PKK and YPG relationship and that not just Turkey but US too accepts PKK as a terrorist organisation, even senator Lindsey Graham who just a few days ago talked about sanctioning Turkey. He is the one actually questioning Carter.


about ''worship for Kemal'' I do not worship anyone or anything. I do not believe in anything or any person to be holy.
Mustafa Kemal is the founder of my country and his ideology which centers rationalism, humanism, Turkish nationalism, peace loving made me admire him.

He being the founder of my country told ''peace at home, peace in the World'' and ''if not to defend ones country, war is murder'' represents the worldview of any Kemalist Turk and the countrys official ideology.

He did not aim for Ottoman Empire v2.0 when founding this country. He wanted Turkey to be an economical powerhouse, admired and influential. Ofc we **** that up but thats another thing.

I told these to show why would Kemalists also stand with the operation if it is not about our safety ?

We dont want anymore suicide bombers, public shooters, teacher assassinations, school bombings, mine killings, drug trafficking, kidnapped children, outpost raids...

Do not believe in Carter, nor in Graham(why would they be lying in this video? are they bribed by Turks ?), nor in Turks but only the anti Turk propaganda. Good for you, you seem to be a totally unbiased person(!).

You dont even accept any dispute on the anti Turkish point of view, you dont even feel the need of listening to other side, I was going to ask why are you even coming here if you arent interested in our side of the story but I realised I know it already: you are just here to spread the propaganda you inherited from the previous propagadist. You inherited it because you already had selective perception.
 
Antonis said:
Maybe a bit off-topic, but I'm a bit annoyed by all those Nationalist idiots. In this case, they're Turkish, but insert x nationality at any other occasion. Basically, they support a war in their home territory, or very close to it, a war that might result in them fighting and dying. And they say bravo. Regardless of any ideological reasons I have to resent them, this behavior is sheer idiocy.

I can understand you, but you don't know the exact situation. From 2015 to today, 4000 Turkish Citizens are dead because of PKK/YPG attacks. So people already dying there. This operation pretty okey to prevent the future casualties.

Edit: I couldn't confirm the numbers. Probably lower than theese, but still pretty high. I'll edit agin if i find the true numbers.

Edit 2: As i found in a Turkish news From 07.06.2015 to 21.01.2017, 1864 citizens are killed at terrorism attacks.
 
I was commenting more on the logic of it all, not the deeper reasons of the conflict :
Basically, they support a war in their home territory, or very close to it, a war that might result in them fighting and dying. And they say bravo. Regardless of any ideological reasons I have to resent them, this behavior is sheer idiocy.
Hence my, "Sorry for going off-topic" remark at the start.  :wink:

Still, I know you were not trying to said that (probably; At least, I hope so), but if we are going for this route, the "they killed our guys, let's destroy them to get rid of them" logic, then the Armenians might have to say a thing or two to the Turkish government(coincidentally, to the Young Turks). Or the Assyrians; or the Thracian Bulgarians; or the Greeks at Istanbul circa 1955; or, for that matter, the Kurds at a number of different occasions, that could be perceived as "terrorist attacks", if not genocide. See what I'm getting at?
 
The crux of the issue seems to be still misunderstood.
Turkey doesn't invade Syria for revenge. Turkey is currently in conflict against PKK. PKK and YPG are pretty much under the same command structure, and their supporters perceive them to be the branches of the same organisation as well. Lots of fighters and resources get switched between Turkey and Syria. Many militants of YPG in Syria are Turkish citizens and some of the weapons PKK used in Turkey are American weapons provided to YPG. I genuinely do not mind an independent Kurdistan, but this is not the crux of the issue at the moment. There is an organisation using political violence against soldiers and civilians in Turkey, and they never succeeded in holding a settlement before. There is a real and serious threat to Turkish citizens caused by YPG presence because they will be able to recruit more people, collect taxes, have their own territory for logistical support etc. I don't want you to pick sides or anything but at least get the basics straight.

And tbh most of what we do is in agreement with Russia and therefore Assad at the moment. Western states might also prefer Turkey to get into peace negotiations with the PKK, this is a policy choice with its merits and flaws, but it's odd to coerce Turkey into this policy choice by the sanctions. And it's even more odd to supply weapons to PKK while being a NATO ally with Turkey
 
Instead, they should have help the fight againts PKK. The wrong thing was supporting the YPG in the first place. Turkey left alone with it's struggle againts PKK.

It's really concerning especially how Germany let PKK run wild in their country, as if encouragement.
 
It means no matter how much time passes or what happens, everything is still exactly the same as before.

https://lyricstranslate.com/en/eski-tas-eski-hamam

"The same old story", ah, it's more convenient.
 
https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/syria-turkey-10-17-2019/index.html
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-syria-security-turkey-usa/turkey-agrees-with-u-s-to-pause-syria-assault-while-kurds-withdraw-idUSKBN1WW0Z7
https://www.vox.com/2019/10/17/20919566/turkey-syria-us-ceasefire-erdogan-pence-kurds
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/us-turkey-syria-cease-fire-agreement-terms
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/07/us-to-let-turkish-forces-move-into-syria-abandoning-kurdish-allies

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/10/full-text-turkey-statement-northeast-syria-191017191203481.html said:
a38a30caec4d4b52af8b34f7fc740f0c_18.jpg


Here's the full text of the joint US-Turkey statement:

1- The US and Turkey reaffirm their relationship as fellow members of NATO. The US understands Turkey's legitimate security concerns on Turkey's southern border.
2- Turkey and the US agree that the conditions on the ground, northeast Syria in particular, necessitate closer coordination on the basis of common interests.
3- Turkey and the US remain committed to protecting NATO territories and NATO populations against all threats with the solid understanding of "one for all and all for one".
4- The two countries reiterate their pledge to uphold human life, human rights, and the protection of religious and ethnic communities.
5- Turkey and the US are committed to D-ISIS/DAESH activities in northeast Syria. This will include coordination on detention facilities and internally displaced persons from formerly ISIS/DAESH-controlled areas, as appropriate.
6- Turkey and the US agree that counter-terrorism operations must target only terrorists and their hideouts, shelters, emplacements, weapons, vehicles and equipment.
7- The Turkish side expressed its commitment to ensure safety and well-being of residents of all population centers in the safe zone controlled by the Turkish Forces (safe zone) and reiterated that maximum  care will be exercised in order not to cause harm to civilians and civilian infrastructure.
8- Both countries reiterate their commitment to the political unity and territorial integrity of Syria and UN-led political process, which aims at ending the Syrian conflict in accordance with UNSCR 2254.
9- The two sides agreed on the continued importance and functionality of a safe zone in order to address the national security concerns of Turkey, to include the re-collection of YPG heavy weapons and the disablement of their fortifications and all other fighting positions.
10- The safe zone will be primarily enforced by the Turkish Armed Forces and the two sides will increase their cooperation in all dimensions of its implementation.
11- The Turkish side will pause Operation Peace Spring in order to allow the withdrawal of YPG from the safe zone within 120 hours. Operation Peace Spring will be halted upon completion of this withdrawal.
12- Once Operation Peace Spring is paused, the US agrees not to pursue further imposition of sanctions under the Executive Order of October 14, 2019, Blocking Property and Suspending Entry of Certain Persons Contributing to the Situation in Syria, and will work and consult with Congress, as appropriate, to underline the progress being undertaken to achieve peace and security in Syria, in accordance with UNSCR 2254. Once Operation Peace Spring is halted as per paragraph 11 the current sanctions under the aforementioned Executive Order shall be lifted.
13- Both parties are committed to work together to implement all the goals outlined in this Statement.
 
Adorno said:
Can you explain it?  :smile:
I don't see the connection between a bowl and a hammam.

In hammam someone pours water on your body using a bowl.
But the meaning is as Cioss said no matter how much time have passed or what happened (in this case after all the things we posted) everything is still same(in this case Abdullah Öcalans stache said the exact same words a far from subject person would say about the topic)
 
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/10/full-text-turkey-statement-northeast-syria-191017191203481.html said:
7- The Turkish side expressed its commitment to ensure safety and well-being of residents of all population centers in the safe zone controlled by the Turkish Forces (safe zone) and reiterated that maximum  care will be exercised in order not to cause harm to civilians and civilian infrastructure.
11- The Turkish side will pause Operation Peace Spring in order to allow the withdrawal of YPG from the safe zone within 120 hours. Operation Peace Spring will be halted upon completion of this withdrawal.

Could be just me, but reads like a massive knee-jerk of the US to Turkey. They essentially state that they are in favour of Turkey occupying part of Syria.

Hopefully, it prevents IS terrorists from escaping, but I'm sceptical so far.
 
Watly said:
Hopefully, it prevents IS terrorists from escaping, but I'm sceptical so far.
Well, YPG was the one who were releasing them anyway. Besides, what some escapist radical ex-terrorists and their families capable of doing at this point?
 
Cioss Julius U.X. said:
Watly said:
Hopefully, it prevents IS terrorists from escaping, but I'm sceptical so far.
Well, YPG was the one who were releasing them anyway. Besides, what some escapist radical ex-terrorists and their families capable of doing at this point?

Given EUs policy on migrants:

Cross the mediterranean on the ship of a 'well-meaning' NGO, get 6 months of prison due to lack of evidence and then shoot up 50 people before getting put in prison as there "is no flight risk."
 
That possibility was there since the beginning of the civil war anyway. Turkey has 4 million Syrian refugees now. We don't know who we let inside. Pretty dire situation, you can't tell which one is the homeless shelter-seeker and which one is the potential suicide bomber.
 
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