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The subject of assassins

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Fenix_120

Sergeant
After a little thought I think this topic deserves its own thread.


The past several times I have played PW mod I have noticed something.


Someone is causing grief in one from or another, and when they are asked about why they killed a person they say "I was paid to do it, I am an assassin"


So, a person can now kill a player WITHOUT WARNING provided that they are paid to do so.


This has been going on a while and I have noticed even admins are taking up the role of "Assassin" but the person who is on the receiving end of this ether quits never to return to PW mod due to admins not banning the assassin(or the admins are the assassin to begin with) or getting banned for "Revenge killing" or "Griefing"


I have never seen an "Assassination" turn out for the good, of the ones I have personally witnessed they have all ended poorly(with one exception that was actually on my characters life) with someone being offended (and rightfully so I have to say) and several others that I did not see happen but read enough in the ICC to know more or less what was going on.


Sometimes another player witnesses said assassin "Trying to random poor guy" and gets involved to save them(TW's usually), sometimes said assassin is swinging a battle ax at his target like a lumberjack who overdosed on cocaine, crystal meth and moon sugar all at once and of course he misses and hits or kills someone who is innocent.



But, I also love to Role play, and an assassin is a legitimate role to play.


So here's the compromise I am proposing.


A Player may kill another player without warning provided that he has been paid at least 500 gold to do so(no "Free-bee" slayings)

But immediately afterwords in the ICC he should apologize to the player he slew and alert admins that said killing was not a random.


This is just good manners though.


But I also would like to propose that only persons of importance can be the target of an assassination attempt (IE the Leader or second in command of a faction or group) and not a civilian or soldier or TW (unless they are a leader)


Also note that this does not include bounties, as a person who puts out a bounty usually RP's "Sign in town reads kill player X for Y amount of gold) and player X is aware someone wants him dead.


Maybe not, just a suggestion to the servers.
 

Suspicous Pilgrim

Grandmaster Knight
They way we RCC do it is that the assassin has to give out a publi warning. for example : "I have accepted a contract...".




It usually works out the the hirer is revealed, but if I don't see a hirer I kick the assassin fo random. I also don't trust those guys who kill peopleand they call  themselves "assasins" and scream out in global chat "ASSASIN 4 HIRE".
 

Azrayel

Sergeant Knight at Arms
Fenix_120 said:
After a little thought I think this topic deserves its own thread.


The past several times I have played PW mod I have noticed something.


Someone is causing grief in one from or another, and when they are asked about why they killed a person they say "I was paid to do it, I am an assassin"


So, a person can now kill a player WITHOUT WARNING provided that they are paid to do so.


This has been going on a while and I have noticed even admins are taking up the role of "Assassin" but the person who is on the receiving end of this ether quits never to return to PW mod due to admins not banning the assassin(or the admins are the assassin to begin with) or getting banned for "Revenge killing" or "Griefing"


I have never seen an "Assassination" turn out for the good, of the ones I have personally witnessed they have all ended poorly(with one exception that was actually on my characters life) with someone being offended (and rightfully so I have to say) and several others that I did not see happen but read enough in the ICC to know more or less what was going on.


Sometimes another player witnesses said assassin "Trying to random poor guy" and gets involved to save them(TW's usually), sometimes said assassin is swinging a battle ax at his target like a lumberjack who overdosed on cocaine, crystal meth and moon sugar all at once and of course he misses and hits or kills someone who is innocent.



But, I also love to Role play, and an assassin is a legitimate role to play.


So here's the compromise I am proposing.


A Player may kill another player without warning provided that he has been paid at least 500 gold to do so(no "Free-bee" slayings)

But immediately afterwords in the ICC he should apologize to the player he slew and alert admins that said killing was not a random.


This is just good manners though.


But I also would like to propose that only persons of importance can be the target of an assassination attempt (IE the Leader or second in command of a faction or group) and not a civilian or soldier or TW (unless they are a leader)


Also note that this does not include bounties, as a person who puts out a bounty usually RP's "Sign in town reads kill player X for Y amount of gold) and player X is aware someone wants him dead.


Maybe not, just a suggestion to the servers.

DAYM FOLKING STRAIGHT (getting ****e past the radar, FTW)!

I have said many times that assassins ability to essentially mimic randomers (waiting until you're AFK, have your back turned, etc.) makes them a menace to role-playing.

I highly agree with you and would posit that they be required to announce their intentions, even if it is a second before the shot/swing is fired/taken.

Some suggestions:

"For Calradia to live, YOU must DIE!"

"Prepare to die/meet your maker!"

"Say hello to my good friend, STABBY McDAGGER!"

"I'd fancy your head a good telescope, now let me put a hole in it!"
 

WebSite

Sergeant at Arms
M&BWB
This can be solved by using logic. Did a brigand kill a serf/civilian and claim to be on a hit? Probably a randomer. Just think, who in calradia wants a civilian removed from the map?
I for one (as an assassin i almost always play as) always warn my victim, or make contact with him in a way he'll be aware i'm going to kill him, ask any of my victims (in-game is Quetzal), but WILL NOT tell him "Hey Mr.X, I'm about to put an arrow in your brain, but please don't move and try to survive because that would **** my RP up" Hell no man, i release an arrow at him and that person realizes someone wanted him dead.
It's an Assassin's task to play a good role and not make the kill look absolutely fake, of course someone shooting you from the back is not cool, but i've you've been dicking around with important people you may actually deserve that arrow.
 

Fenix_120

Sergeant
WebSite said:
This can be solved by using logic.


Sadly I do not believe that most of the people who play as assassins are very logical though.


(Not to rip on you, good that you are one of the few decent assassins out their thank you for that!)
 

Azrayel

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WebSite said:
This can be solved by using logic. Did a brigand kill a serf/civilian and claim to be on a hit? Probably a randomer. Just think, who in calradia wants a civilian removed from the map?
I for one (as an assassin i almost always play as) always warn my victim, or make contact with him in a way he'll be aware i'm going to kill him, ask any of my victims (in-game is Quetzal), but WILL NOT tell him "Hey Mr.X, I'm about to put an arrow in your brain, but please don't move and try to survive because that would **** my RP up" Hell no man, i release an arrow at him and that person realizes someone wanted him dead.
It's an Assassin's task to play a good role and not make the kill look absolutely fake, of course someone shooting you from the back is not cool, but i've you've been dicking around with important people you may actually deserve that arrow.

Which makes it unfair, but if I see someone with a bow trying to act all non-challant in my castle (you, for example) am I entitled to **** your **** up on sucpision alone? No, I'd be kicked from randoming. It simply is not fair.
 

Van_Zan

Regular
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Azrayel said:
Some suggestions:

"For Calradia to live, YOU must DIE!"

"Prepare to die/meet your maker!"

"Say hello to my good friend, STABBY McDAGGER!"

"I'd fancy your head a good telescope, now let me put a hole in it!"

any randomer can say that? i like the idea where an assassin has to say I have a contract from X who wants y dead, and when they die they cant retaliate because of nlr. but sometimes with 40+ ppl global gets spammed to heck so he may miss the message and just scream out RDM! ive only been rdm once and he didnt say he was an assassin, he ignored it, just came up and killed me with his sword and the admins didnt do ****, and when i was accused of it the guy had stolen my clients horse(i was a caravan guard) and again the admins didnt do anything. rdm is just too hard to regulate and people will always grief. maybe if you make a private server with a password and only take the good rpers and let them in youll have a good grief and rdm free zone(but that wont happen because the community is too small and what with the different time zones thered be too few on at a time). besides who hires assassins? i might so that i dont get kicked for rdm but realisticly most players forget about assassins. in that new land of changes thing there may be a lot of people using assassins so that may be super cool. if i want someone dead i make it hapen. they tried hitmen in garrysmod rp and it didnt work cuz the hitman had no contracts, got bored, and began rdm.i guess what im saying is rdm is something were always gonna have to deal with :sad:

sorry for long post -.-
 

WebSite

Sergeant at Arms
M&BWB
Azrayel said:
WebSite said:
This can be solved by using logic. Did a brigand kill a serf/civilian and claim to be on a hit? Probably a randomer. Just think, who in calradia wants a civilian removed from the map?
I for one (as an assassin i almost always play as) always warn my victim, or make contact with him in a way he'll be aware i'm going to kill him, ask any of my victims (in-game is Quetzal), but WILL NOT tell him "Hey Mr.X, I'm about to put an arrow in your brain, but please don't move and try to survive because that would **** my RP up" Hell no man, i release an arrow at him and that person realizes someone wanted him dead.
It's an Assassin's task to play a good role and not make the kill look absolutely fake, of course someone shooting you from the back is not cool, but i've you've been dicking around with important people you may actually deserve that arrow.


Which makes it unfair, but if I see someone with a bow trying to act all non-challant in my castle (you, for example) am I entitled to **** your **** up on sucpision alone? No, I'd be kicked from randoming. It simply is not fair.

You can ask me to leave, i've been asked to leave one thousand times and i've always responded.
 

WebSite

Sergeant at Arms
M&BWB
Van_Zan said:
any randomer can say that? i like the idea where an assassin has to say I have a contract from X who wants y dead, and when they die they cant retaliate because of nlr. but sometimes with 40+ ppl global gets spammed to heck so he may miss the message and just scream out RDM! ive only been rdm once and he didnt say he was an assassin, he ignored it, just came up and killed me with his sword and the admins didnt do ****, and when i was accused of it the guy had stolen my clients horse(i was a caravan guard) and again the admins didnt do anything. rdm is just too hard to regulate and people will always grief. maybe if you make a private server with a password and only take the good rpers and let them in youll have a good grief and rdm free zone(but that wont happen because the community is too small and what with the different time zones thered be too few on at a time). besides who hires assassins? i might so that i dont get kicked for rdm but realisticly most players forget about assassins. in that new land of changes thing there may be a lot of people using assassins so that may be super cool. if i want someone dead i make it hapen. they tried hitmen in garrysmod rp and it didnt work cuz the hitman had no contracts, got bored, and began rdm.i guess what im saying is rdm is something were always gonna have to deal with :sad:

sorry for long post -.-

I for one find this to be quite against what an assassin is supposed to be, an assassin will not yell "ASSASSIN FOR HIRE" and then go "X HAS CONTRACTED ME, I MUST KILL Y" that's just retarded, because the whole point of an assassination is the victim not expecting it. As i have said, i'm usually tasked with meaningful contracts, aka killing the templar leader, a king, or a particularly tough TW, and i always get to know them before making my move (which usually gets me killed instead of him, but it's still fun nevertheless.)
 

The Sniper

Sergeant
Well maybe we could do this
After the assassination, the assassin reveals his contract and employer and amount paid (but thats for the sake of not getting kicked) and anyone who worked for or was friends with may chase the assassin, but may NOT go after the employer
 
In my humble opinion, an assassination should be acceptable under certain situations.

Obviously, a high profile target. Faction leader, or someone who is important in said faction.

Payment, and not 500g. That's a joke in this game. I know I wouldn't risk my life for that, hell the equipment the assassin is using is almost guarenteed worth more than that, it should be a sizable sum, not something people just have lying around. Maybe at least 10,000?

After the assassination (not before, you're hardly stealthy if you announce it, and then the target will just hide in a castle you can't reach), the assassin has to proclaim their success, reveal their employer, and their employer has to confirm it.

Perhaps they have to use a more discreet method then charging in with a two-handed axe? Sneak up and stab, or better a bow from far away?

I personally wouldn't mind an assassin who played their role well and legitimately had an employer, but the only one I've seen was against a faction leader while I was Marshal/Bodyguard, and it was just some guy with a big axe charging in there and proclaiming "I WAS AN ASSASSIN I GOT PAID"
 

NOVICIUS

Master Knight
In medieval Europe assassins did not exist as you think of them. Assassins is idea of Muslim world. They where fanatic believers of one of branches of Islam. Assassin in Europe usually was relative..for example brother of king killed him to take his throne.

My suggestion:

Make a guild of Assassins.(I did suggest that in other thread but I do not remember which one) with strict rules. This guild has to be run by admin to work properly.

How I see it would work?

Master of the guild:
I know only two candidates:Suspicious Pilgrim and Aegis (if he is still active as I have not seen this extremely dangerous man for a while...good for me :roll:)

Apprentice: someone who will post his application to the Master of Assassins with few importand points to proof:
1.Is he known as good roleplayer
2.Is he ever was known as randomer (how many justify kicks or..god forbid..ban)
3.TEST:sad:this is only examples... use your own imagination)
- 1st mission - steal some goods or weapons without killing anybody
- 2nd mission - make a screenshot of target from behind with weapon ready to attack but without being notice and without killing anybody (for example in the castle)
- 3rd mission - killing armored knight in duel but..with knife only as weapon(skills test)

Then and only then apprentice become ASSASSIN with licence for killing ppl. If that kind of Assassin will kill me..I would be proud to be his target. BUT...No range weapon - it would be to easy. I can agree for using range weapon from very short distance...(like infamouse assassination of Lord Red de Mon by "face shot" from Xbow performed by Aegis) only because there is no throwing weapons in mod...

MAIN POINT: Assassins can not kill random targets...They have to have reason (A lot of money as it was said for example), killing has to be epic and difficult to do. One strike only..If you fail you escape...This should be the way of assassin: Watching you target and wait for weak moment.

What you think?

EDIT: 1 more comment: I believe that Assassins should be absolute elite of RPlayers accepted by comunity...As Player they should be well known..as char totally unknown...
 

WebSite

Sergeant at Arms
M&BWB
NOVICIUS said:
In medieval Europe assassins did not exist as you think of them. Assassins is idea of Muslim world. They where fanatic believers of one of branches of Islam. Assassin in Europe usually was relative..for example brother of king killed him to take his throne.

My suggestion:

Make a guild of Assassins.(I did suggest that in other thread but I do not remember which one) with strict rules. This guild has to be run by admin to work properly.

How I see it would work?

Master of the guild:
I know only two candidates:Suspicious Pilgrim and Aegis (if he is still active as I have not seen this extremely dangerous man for a while...good for me :roll:)

Apprentice: someone who will post his application to the Master of Assassins with few importand points to proof:
1.Is he known as good roleplayer
2.Is he ever was known as randomer (how many justify kicks or..god forbid..ban)
3.TEST:sad:this is only examples... use your own imagination)
- 1st mission - steal some goods or weapons without killing anybody
- 2nd mission - make a screenshot of target from behind with weapon ready to attack but without being notice and without killing anybody (for example in the castle)
- 3rd mission - killing armored knight in duel but..with knife only as weapon(skills test)

Then and only then apprentice become ASSASSIN with licence for killing ppl. If that kind of Assassin will kill me..I would be proud to be his target. BUT...No range weapon - it would be to easy. I can agree for using range weapon from very short distance...(like infamouse assassination of Lord Red de Mon by "face shot" from Xbow performed by Aegis) only because there is no throwing weapons in mod...

MAIN POINT: Assassins can not kill random targets...They have to have reason (A lot of money as it was said for example), killing has to be epic and difficult to do. One strike only..If you fail you escape...This should be the way of assassin: Watching you target and wait for weak moment.

What you think?

EDIT: 1 more comment: I believe that Assassins should be absolute elite of RPlayers accepted by comunity...As Player they should be well known..as char totally unknown...

Wait don't we have the Mason's guild already?

Anyways, no one has tried to get me kicked yet for Assassinating them so i'll keep doing what i've been doing for a looong time :3
 

Orion

Still Not Worthy
Global Moderator
M&BWBWF&SNW
How we did it in TSRP way back when (TSRP was The Specialists Roleplay, for a HL1 mod called the Specialists) typically worked very well on our server. First, hitmen - essentially the same as assassins - had to be approved by the server staff or an employing organization (such as the Sicilian mafia) and were given very strict rules to operate within.

First, there was a server rule dictating the minimum amount allowed for a hit contract (we used $10,000, though if you scale it to PW it relates to about 4-5k). Hits performed by criminal organizations were exempt, though these hitmen could not accept contracts themselves and instead only be given contracts by their organization's leader.

Second, a contract had to be announced to the admins in the server. Our TSRP server had an admin chat feature, so the target would not be aware of the threat (unless it was an admin's character, of course, but only top-notch RPers stood a chance of being admins).

Third, the hit could not simply be run 'n' gun. The hitman had to set up the kill properly with some form of planning. Basically, they had to interact with their target in some way other than just killing them on the street. Usually they were given specific instructions for the job, such as "kill so-n-so with a knife, and make it messy" or "take them out quietly, and make it look like an accident." Very rarely were long-range sniping instructions given, and if they were they were usually planned out precisely. Our hitmen never just stood on a rooftop with rifles and waited for their mark to come strolling by. Rather, they would lure their target into a quiet location and execute them.

Finally, any hitmen violating our rules or "hobo hitmen" that weren't actually hitmen but trying to play the role without approval would be fired, kicked, or banned.

Overall, the caliber of RPers in the TSRP server I frequented was much, much higher than I've yet to see anywhere else, so our strict rules were easier to enforce than you may think. In this situation with the PW servers, I think it might be best to enforce a guild policy to assassinations. I.E., make an assassin's guild on the forums, have a selective recruiting process, and let it be self-governing for the most part. Have the server admins devise fitting regulations for the assassins (such as a minimal assassination price and RP quota) and let them go from there. Freelancing assassins should be discouraged, though not necessarily kicked or banned. They should try to RP their way into the assassin's guild, or try to become mercenaries or bandits instead.
 

Kazzan

Count
M&BWBNW
I usually insist on my contracter sending out a notice saying they have hired an assassin for a contract. This may well invoke strong objections but if it does I just tell them to take it up with my contracter, I only do it for the gold and sneaky bits.
 

NOVICIUS

Master Knight
WebSite said:
Wait don't we have the Mason's guild already?

Anyways, no one has tried to get me kicked yet for Assassinating them so i'll keep doing what i've been doing for a looong time :3

I fought that Mason guild have something to do with house building :roll: ...The Mason did not exist in Medieval time as EVERYBODY HAD TO BELIEVE IN GOD WILL AND DO NOT THINK TO MUCH or.......die as heretic. "Freemasonry is a fraternal organisation that arose from obscure origins in the late 16th to early 17th century". Accusing Masons of performing assassinations is quite offensive to this very noble organisation... :cool:

I do not know You to well (but maybe this is good thing :wink:), and this is why I trust in:
Suspicous Pilgrim said:
Heh heh heh, there is always the Suspicious Brotherhood...
 

Maxikus

Squire
Maybe the masons in the game and the Freemasons of the real world aren't the same. The masons in game doesn't have any thoughts in the religious matter but they only wish to protect the town they built. (Thats the way i've interpret it)

But as long as an assassin roleplays well and preferably talks to the victim before he strikes .I once had a man enter the castle I was ruling, standing before me talking then telling me i will die at which point he attacked. I barely survived. The thing many people seem to forget is that assassinations are meant to be hard. It's not just run in, stab and get out. It takes some planning and some finesse.

That's hard to recreate in this game though but I think it's a proper handicap for the assassin to announce his intentions before striking. That doesn't make the victim so mad either. But of course there needs to be someone to hire the assassin so it's not a free randoming ticket.
 

NOVICIUS

Master Knight
Maxikus said:
Maybe the masons in the game and the Freemasons of the real world aren't the same. The masons in game doesn't have any thoughts in the religious matter but they only wish to protect the town they built. (Thats the way i've interpret it)

But as long as an assassin roleplays well and preferably talks to the victim before he strikes .I once had a man enter the castle I was ruling, standing before me talking then telling me i will die at which point he attacked. I barely survived. The thing many people seem to forget is that assassinations are meant to be hard. It's not just run in, stab and get out. It takes some planning and some finesse.

That's hard to recreate in this game though but I think it's a proper handicap for the assassin to announce his intentions before striking. That doesn't make the victim so mad either. But of course there needs to be someone to hire the assassin so it's not a free randoming ticket.

I believe that original historic example is much better. Instead of contracts Assassin Guild will have own ideas of how World should be ruled. Every King or Leader would have to pay money to the Guild to avoid being a target.

If you think about fact that even powerfull Sultan of Egypt payed tribute to the order of Nizari Ismailis ("Hashashiyyin") as well as Seljuk Sultans of Syria,Iraq and Iran to stay alive, then You understand what I am talking about.

Only masters of Knight Orders did not pay to them  because killing Great Master of Order did change nothing as Knight Order just choose the next one. Knight Orders like Templars were biggest enemies of Assassins.

Saladin refuse to pay and almost died (2 well known attempts. Second one make him wounded...the most powerfull man in the Middle East at this time!!!)

The first thing Mongols did in Middle East before conquest was destroying Assassins Order.

I could create Assassin Guild as Mentor ("Old Man of the Mountain") but I bet there are more experience players who could look in to it. As we have Templars it would be natural to have Assassins as well.
 

Phoenix234

Sergeant Knight at Arms
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/medieval_masons.htm

Happy novicus? masons existed in medieval times.
we arent free masons, they are a later part of the timeline in the 16th century

the Masons are the public guild. they deal with the trading inside the city. the Society or men of shadow are the assasins part of the guild, they protect the cities interests by removing corruption and generally evil rulers.

masons dont get involved in street events usually, so none of this thread is relevent, unless the person killed was guarding a king and got in the way after the assasin tried to flee he probaly wasnt a mason

if a player or faction is considered "evil" or bullying those weaker then themselves i get contacted and i dispatch a team to spy on the faction, once confirmed i send 2 teams to remove the leadership of that faction.

in summary

The Masons are the builders of the city, They use there wealth to equip the Town watch and other mercs to protect the city
The Society, or men of shadow are the players who run assasination missions against those that the TW cant defeat.

as a whole the guilds refered to as the masonry or the masons, it includes both parts.

a big part of this guild is changing the world without actually been seen, you guys have no idea how many times we have saved you peasants :razz:

Rules wise... our targets ARE either bad players or bad roleplayers. it has to be checked by several masons before they get "marked"
admins havent complained to me about the 100s of assasinations completed so ill assume we are doing it right.

the guild novicus described is the masons guild... ill assume hes been rude by ignoring that its already ingame to suggest someone needs to make it
 
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