TerrigenusTriste
Recruit
I've read a lot of posts regarding game balance and the skill system, and instead of replying to all of them, I list all of my opinions in one post.
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My experience of swords, armour and bows says this:
To use a sword, you use agility more than strength. Though the larger the sword, the more strength you need. But still not that much.
Only a barbarian would use his strength to bash through an opponent's defenses, a true swordsman would try to bypass them. The latter requires more brain than brawn, so I would say that intelligence is the most important attribute for a good swordsman. And this is a fact. In my fencing classes, the best swordsmen are those that are the smartest and catch up the quickest. Strength and agility are just requirements for the art itself, intelligence and experience is what makes you good at it.
Armour is a two-edged sword. The more of your body it covers, the heavier it becomes and that gives you less mobility and tires you quicker. The fact that the mercenaries and knights only wore chainmail over their arms and just to below the chest, to cover the armpits rather than the whole body, says a lot. Chainmail is heavy as it is, adding a full plate armour on top of it doesn't make things better.
The prime attribute for wearing armour is obviously strength. The stronger you are, the slower you get tired. Now the thing is: The more armour you wear, the less agility you get. A knight in fullplate armour might be able to fence rather unhindered, but he is still a lot more inhibited in his movements than if wearing no armour at all.
I haven't used that many bows actually, just some smaller riding bows. But still it seems quite obvious to me that strength is very important. A weak person simply can't draw the bowstring. Agility is definetly needed to aim right, but I'd still say that just as in swordfencing intelligence and experience is the most important attribute.
()
-Strength makes you be able to physically wield your weapons and armour.
More strength usually means more endurance, and the fighter that tires first usually looses. Simple fact.
I might personally be able to draw a 100 pound bow, but at the point of maximum draw my arm would shake so much from the exertion that I wouldn't be able to aim. Thus, strength is a requirement to actually be able to use the weapons and armours, not to use them effectively.
-Agility makes you be able to use your weapons effectively.
With agility, you can get around your opponent's shield with your sword, aim right with your bow and avoid attacks alltogether.
-Intelligence makes you master your art, be it bow or sword.
Without intelligence, your attacks would just be mindless bashing or stray arrows aimed at the wrong things. Every fencer knows that it is technique that defeats an opponent most of the times, and intelligence is definetely a prequesite for mastering techniques.
And with intelligence you can use the most effective defense there is: Be in the right place at the right time.
()
Basic weapon types should have a strength requirement to be able to wield, based on their weight. (A small but heavy mace is harder to wield than a large but light sword, for example.)
Bows should require a lot more strength to use than swords.
Armour should also require strength to be able to be used. They should also limit the max agility you could effectively use based on their type. (For example, plate mail should hinder you a lot more than a simple leather armour)
In most cases in the game, these things are already there, but not everywhere.
More specifically:
Power Draw as a requirement for bows.
Power Throw for throwing weapons
Power Strike for melee weapons
(New skill) Armour as a requirement for armours. (The skill should either degreace the penalties on Agility, or increase the effectiveness of the armour value)
This means that the attribute "strength" is a prequesite for the skills, and not used by itself as a requirement. It also means that even though you have a lot of strength, you are not good at everything, and skill is what define the things you are good at. It makes you be able to specialize in an area.
()
- All the Power Skills (Power Draw for example) should use Strength. As should Armour.
- Weapon Master should use Intelligence.
- Agility should give Weapon Profiency Points to spend. (As it does now)
- No more getting Profiency Points when you hit something in battle. This doesn't make any sense and it imbalances the whole leveling system. The current system is based on leveling up; You collect a certain amount of xp and at a given number of points you upgrade yourself. To blend this with a system similar to that of Morrowind, by getting better at the skills that you actually use, is to mix things up. It should be either one, not both of them.
-Weapon Master should increase your weapon speed by a very small amount. Why? Because this is the best way of reflecting the fact that an experienced fighter that have mastered his weapon is better than a person wielding an unfamiliar weapon. The experienced master sees the openings and reacts to them faster than an unexperienced figher does, and so he seems faster than he actually is. I know this for a fact, since I'm a fencer myself.
-The profiency system could work something like this:
You could spend as many points gained by agility in the various weapon categories as you wish, but Weapon Master skill determines how effective those points are. Say for example that you have Weapon Master skill level of 2, which gives you a maximum of 100 points. Then say that you have spent 200 points on One Handed Weapons with your high Agility. All points above the limit from Weapon Master should be halved, thus decreasing their effectivness, which gives you 100 points from your effective Weapon Master skill and 50 points from the 100 points you have above that, for a total of 150.
In my opinion, this could work but needs to be tested.
Say for example that you have lots of strength and lots of agility, but neglect intelligence. This means that you have lots of protection and good weapons, and can deal a decent amount of damage with them, but without Weapon Master you could never be as good as with it (Also remember the speed increase I mentioned earlier). The name "Weapon Master" really says it all.
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I have given all of this some really hard thinking, and I believe that this system should work better than the one we have now. With the bonus of being more realistic.
I can only hope that Armagan notices it
And I'm open for discussions, as always
-----------------------------
My experience of swords, armour and bows says this:
To use a sword, you use agility more than strength. Though the larger the sword, the more strength you need. But still not that much.
Only a barbarian would use his strength to bash through an opponent's defenses, a true swordsman would try to bypass them. The latter requires more brain than brawn, so I would say that intelligence is the most important attribute for a good swordsman. And this is a fact. In my fencing classes, the best swordsmen are those that are the smartest and catch up the quickest. Strength and agility are just requirements for the art itself, intelligence and experience is what makes you good at it.
Armour is a two-edged sword. The more of your body it covers, the heavier it becomes and that gives you less mobility and tires you quicker. The fact that the mercenaries and knights only wore chainmail over their arms and just to below the chest, to cover the armpits rather than the whole body, says a lot. Chainmail is heavy as it is, adding a full plate armour on top of it doesn't make things better.
The prime attribute for wearing armour is obviously strength. The stronger you are, the slower you get tired. Now the thing is: The more armour you wear, the less agility you get. A knight in fullplate armour might be able to fence rather unhindered, but he is still a lot more inhibited in his movements than if wearing no armour at all.
I haven't used that many bows actually, just some smaller riding bows. But still it seems quite obvious to me that strength is very important. A weak person simply can't draw the bowstring. Agility is definetly needed to aim right, but I'd still say that just as in swordfencing intelligence and experience is the most important attribute.
()
-Strength makes you be able to physically wield your weapons and armour.
More strength usually means more endurance, and the fighter that tires first usually looses. Simple fact.
I might personally be able to draw a 100 pound bow, but at the point of maximum draw my arm would shake so much from the exertion that I wouldn't be able to aim. Thus, strength is a requirement to actually be able to use the weapons and armours, not to use them effectively.
-Agility makes you be able to use your weapons effectively.
With agility, you can get around your opponent's shield with your sword, aim right with your bow and avoid attacks alltogether.
-Intelligence makes you master your art, be it bow or sword.
Without intelligence, your attacks would just be mindless bashing or stray arrows aimed at the wrong things. Every fencer knows that it is technique that defeats an opponent most of the times, and intelligence is definetely a prequesite for mastering techniques.
And with intelligence you can use the most effective defense there is: Be in the right place at the right time.
()
Basic weapon types should have a strength requirement to be able to wield, based on their weight. (A small but heavy mace is harder to wield than a large but light sword, for example.)
Bows should require a lot more strength to use than swords.
Armour should also require strength to be able to be used. They should also limit the max agility you could effectively use based on their type. (For example, plate mail should hinder you a lot more than a simple leather armour)
In most cases in the game, these things are already there, but not everywhere.
More specifically:
Power Draw as a requirement for bows.
Power Throw for throwing weapons
Power Strike for melee weapons
(New skill) Armour as a requirement for armours. (The skill should either degreace the penalties on Agility, or increase the effectiveness of the armour value)
This means that the attribute "strength" is a prequesite for the skills, and not used by itself as a requirement. It also means that even though you have a lot of strength, you are not good at everything, and skill is what define the things you are good at. It makes you be able to specialize in an area.
()
- All the Power Skills (Power Draw for example) should use Strength. As should Armour.
- Weapon Master should use Intelligence.
- Agility should give Weapon Profiency Points to spend. (As it does now)
- No more getting Profiency Points when you hit something in battle. This doesn't make any sense and it imbalances the whole leveling system. The current system is based on leveling up; You collect a certain amount of xp and at a given number of points you upgrade yourself. To blend this with a system similar to that of Morrowind, by getting better at the skills that you actually use, is to mix things up. It should be either one, not both of them.
-Weapon Master should increase your weapon speed by a very small amount. Why? Because this is the best way of reflecting the fact that an experienced fighter that have mastered his weapon is better than a person wielding an unfamiliar weapon. The experienced master sees the openings and reacts to them faster than an unexperienced figher does, and so he seems faster than he actually is. I know this for a fact, since I'm a fencer myself.
-The profiency system could work something like this:
You could spend as many points gained by agility in the various weapon categories as you wish, but Weapon Master skill determines how effective those points are. Say for example that you have Weapon Master skill level of 2, which gives you a maximum of 100 points. Then say that you have spent 200 points on One Handed Weapons with your high Agility. All points above the limit from Weapon Master should be halved, thus decreasing their effectivness, which gives you 100 points from your effective Weapon Master skill and 50 points from the 100 points you have above that, for a total of 150.
In my opinion, this could work but needs to be tested.
Say for example that you have lots of strength and lots of agility, but neglect intelligence. This means that you have lots of protection and good weapons, and can deal a decent amount of damage with them, but without Weapon Master you could never be as good as with it (Also remember the speed increase I mentioned earlier). The name "Weapon Master" really says it all.
------------------------
I have given all of this some really hard thinking, and I believe that this system should work better than the one we have now. With the bonus of being more realistic.
I can only hope that Armagan notices it
And I'm open for discussions, as always
(Yeah, I twisted your words a bit, sorry). Sorry for being repetive or if I misunerstood something. Just my three markkas.
